Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

BJean,

Let's be honest! I never came out and "haughtily exclaimed" anyone is going to Hell in those words. What I did say is what the Bible had to say on the subject. I have quoted scripture to that effect. I know you and other do not accept that, and don't want to hear that. Do you want me to stop saying that because someone is offended by my beliefs?

I don't have any illusion that what I said is going to cause you to change your beliefs. I am just presenting what MY beliefs are - take it or leave it.

You and others are offended by my "attitude", which you classified previously as insensitive amd uncompromising because, I assume, I am so convinced that my beliefs are right and I am vocal about it. If I were in your shoes I might feel the same way, so what do I do. Not respond to questions, serious or not, because I shouldn't say what I believe?

You said you don't expect me to compromise what I believe, but what I think I am hearing you say is, "just keep it to yourself"! Is that correct or not? If so, what terminology would you feel more comfortable with? No matter how I say what I believe, some people are going to take offence to it.

Ron you have said repeatedly that your way is the only way which is fine. But you do not show that you respect anyone else's beliefs. In fact, just the opposite is true. In fact you must be working real hard at trying to seem obtuse, because it has been said so often here that it's your attitude that is being protested, NOT what you believe is 100% true and NOT what you believe is 100% based on the Bible and NOT what you believe is 100% positive proof that you are right, but it IS because you have proclaimed that 100% of everyone else is going to hell. Many of us know what the Bible says about hell, damnation to hell, and have heard many hell, fire and brimstone sermons, and we still believe what we believe.

No, I don't expect you to change your beliefs. No I don't expect you to compromise what you BELIEVE is 100% true. A refreshing change here would be for you to understand that you should not expect anyone else to change what they believe is 100% true and you should be nice about it, not haughtily exclaim that they are going to hell. That is what respect is all about. No one here is telling you that you are 100% wrong in your belief of the Bible. You're the one who began using that and other similar language.

Well, it appears that Ron is no longer responding to attacks, and I commend him for his restraint.

Can we take this thread back to yesterday? I asked a question of people who call themselves Christ-followers (both Catholic and Protestant) but don't take the Bible literally. No one answered me except TOM, who told me he wouldn't answer because it was a personal question (which I find interesting because there are lots of other personal questions that he and others answer). So will anyone else answer?

Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day?

Actually, no! I never said or implied any of those things, and I would be happy to respond to any post you direct at me. You are making assumptions. I think I have responded to the couple that you did direct to me, and have not jumped into other you posted to others. If you have something to say to me, please do.

BJean and Green, you guys make me blush! My husband keeps asking me why I'm "wasting time" answering points here. The honest answere is I like the debate; also, sharing knowledge is what attaining it is all about in the end.

Ron, I notice that you don't really ever respond to my postings directly - oh, yeah - except for the one about women using men's ritual objects, which you said you weren't in favor of...NOT on the grounds of Christian women using a Jewish MAN's ritual object, but more, I suspect, on the idea that women shouldn't usurp or try to do things that YOU think only MEN should do...so I guess I should just up and get out of the military obligations I freely took on, since that's probably men's work. What's next - I should stay home and cook and be a mom to my three year old daughter? I do all those things, btw - while her father and I provide the example of (constant) higher education, concern for our world and the life in it, and an awareness of the divine in our everyday lives...

Isn't that what we're all trying to do in the end? Why be so caustic?

Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day?

I'll answer - how many languages would you like "No" in? besides English, there's Hebrew (Lo), Arabic (La), Russian (Nyet), Spanish (No), German (Nein), French (Non), um...gimme a sec, I'll come up with some more...

My point is that you insinuated that folks are willing to argue with Ron but are UNWILLING to stand by their own beliefs. That's crap, and I'll be the first to say it.

Ron, I notice that you don't really ever respond to my postings directly - oh, yeah - except for the one about women using men's ritual objects, which you said you weren't in favor of...NOT on the grounds of Christian women using a Jewish MAN's ritual object, but more, I suspect, on the idea that women shouldn't usurp or try to do things that YOU think only MEN should do...so I guess I should just up and get out of the military obligations I freely took on, since that's probably men's work. What's next - I should stay home and cook and be a mom to my three year old daughter? I do all those things, btw - while her father and I provide the example of (constant) higher education, concern for our world and the life in it, and an awareness of the divine in our everyday lives...

Isn't that what we're all trying to do in the end? Why be so caustic?

TruBlueSue, why would you assume Ron thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant? I don't see anywhere where he's said that, much less implied it. It seems a bit presumptous and superior to say that, if not precisely what you accuse hime of - caustic. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

With posts like this, you wonder why this thread got to this point. This is a great example of the point I was trying to make previously about double standards.

No one seems to think garbage like this is insensitive or crude, but let me respond and everyone starts pointing the finger!

Anyone care to address the sarcasim and taunting from this person??

Why didn't you pray to your God to make the kid alive again? You didn't like the kid or you don't believe that would EVER happen? Seems like gathering a group of devout pray-ers and asking God to change his mind on this one should be enough to do it, right?

BJean,

Let's be honest! I never came out and "haughtily exclaimed" anyone is going to Hell in those words. What I did say is what the Bible had to say on the subject. I have quoted scripture to that effect. I know you and other do not accept that, and don't want to hear that. Do you want me to stop saying that because someone is offended by my beliefs?

Just because you can quote a verse in the Bible that says something, don't be so assured that someone else can not quote another verse from the Bible that says the opposite. Or don't be so sure that someone can not interpret the verse that you quoted as meaning something different (maybe exactly the opposite).

I have heard people much more knowledgeable that I argue over scripture. When one quotes one verse, the other quotes a verse which says the opposite, only to be told by the first one that his verse actually means something else.

I have seen Bible verses used as justification for almost anything including the agenda of Hitler, the KKK and the Confederates states' rights to keep slaves. The Bible is a complex, self-contradictory set of books, which originally were a handful of letters and pamphlets (so to speak), that were edited to someone's taste (canonization).

Geezersue: Why not start a new thread? You might get a better and more reasonable discussion going. This one is pretty tainted at this point. I'm not sure anyone feels that there is any value in posting here anymore. I certainly don't.

Actually, no! I never said or implied any of those things, and I would be happy to respond to any post you direct at me. You are making assumptions. I think I have responded to the couple that you did direct to me, and have not jumped into other you posted to others. If you have something to say to me, please do.

Ron, I directed the whole post about the Koran towards your point that the bible is the only divinely inspired scripture in the world. No response.

I'll answer - how many languages would you like "No" in? besides English, there's Hebrew (Lo), Arabic (La), Russian (Nyet), Spanish (No), German (Nein), French (Non), um...gimme a sec, I'll come up with some more...

My point is that you insinuated that folks are willing to argue with Ron but are UNWILLING to stand by their own beliefs. That's crap, and I'll be the first to say it.

I never heard you claim to be a Christian. The question was specifically asked of Christians, none of whom has yet responded (even though you say it's crap, still none has responded). I would have expected, based on your earlier posts where you specifically talked about being Jewish, that you would respond with a "no". Thank you for all of the languages, though! I wasn't attacking you.

You know my belief on that so what's to respond to? Why beat a dead horse. I do not believe the Qur'an to be of spiritual authority or the God of the Qur'an to be the same as the God of the Bible. You believe otherwise. So what do you want to discuss??

Ron, I directed the whole post about the Koran towards your point that the bible is the only divinely inspired scripture in the world. No response.

TruBlueSue, why would you assume Ron thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant? I don't see anywhere where he's said that, much less implied it. It seems a bit presumptous and superior to say that, if not precisely what you accuse hime of - caustic. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

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Today, 11:23 AM

Ron Cusano vbmenu_register("postmenu_378473", true);

Shiloh

Join Date: Jan 2007

Age: 62

Posts: 200

I agree with you! Women have no place using a prayer shawl. You will get no argument from me!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlueSue

"Completed Jews" may be their terminology, but to Judaism they are still considered Christians. However, this still doesn't really answer my original question - why would Christian women use Jewish mens' ritual objects while worshipping Jesus? Just saying that real Christians learn about Judaism b/c Jesus was Jewish just doesn't answer it. I know lots of Christians who are very conversant with Judaism who would never DREAM of utilizing Jewish ritual objects for their own purposes.

The use of bold type and capital letters led me to believe that he felt strongly on it. The rest I inferred from reading the entire thread.

"A child that I knew was warned constantly about going out into the street. He didn't heed the warning and one day he was hit by a car and died. He apparently didn't comprehend the warning or just disregarded it. That is what I feel I am watching!!"

I can't imagine writing a story such as that in the manner in which it was written and not be seen as an unfeeling, uncaring, unholy person. You seem to be saying that the kid deserved to die because they did not heed the warning. Imagine a world where everyone held such beliefs. If we are to believe that this is an accurate depiction of the relationship between God and his children then I can't help but say that your God is a Bad parent. As a parent I made sure my children didn't run into the oncoming traffic. I told them many times not to run out into the street but I also recognized that they were children and I made sure they were safe.

I have heard analogies that talk about a child being told that the element on the stove is hot and yet they put their hand on it anyway. You have decided to turn the stove into a roadway and burnt fingers become a dead child.

Oh what a caring sole you must truly be...

Seems like you already have your mind made up on the authority of the Bible. You are entitled to your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree.

Just because you can quote a verse in the Bible that says something, don't be so assured that someone else can not quote another verse from the Bible that says the opposite. Or don't be so sure that someone can not interpret the verse that you quoted as meaning something different (maybe exactly the opposite).

I have heard people much more knowledgeable that I argue over scripture. When one quotes one verse, the other quotes a verse which says the opposite, only to be told by the first one that his verse actually means something else.

I have seen Bible verses used as justification for almost anything including the agenda of Hitler, the KKK and the Confederates states' rights to keep slaves. The Bible is a complex, self-contradictory set of books, which originally were a handful of letters and pamphlets (so to speak), that were edited to someone's taste (canonization).

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534

Today, 11:23 AM

Ron Cusano vbmenu_register("postmenu_378473", true);

Shiloh

Join Date: Jan 2007

Age: 62

Posts: 200

I agree with you! Women have no place using a prayer shawl. You will get no argument from me!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlueSue

"Completed Jews" may be their terminology, but to Judaism they are still considered Christians. However, this still doesn't really answer my original question - why would Christian women use Jewish mens' ritual objects while worshipping Jesus? Just saying that real Christians learn about Judaism b/c Jesus was Jewish just doesn't answer it. I know lots of Christians who are very conversant with Judaism who would never DREAM of utilizing Jewish ritual objects for their own purposes.

The use of bold type and capital letters led me to believe that he felt strongly on it. The rest I inferred from reading the entire thread.

Oh -- I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as he objected to the practice because of the traditional history of Judiasm. I will let Ron speak for himself on this one, but I really don't think he believes women are substandard or inferior.

(In case you hadn't guessed, I don't think they are, either ).