Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

I do belong and post on other Lap Band boards about support. In fact, I started a Lap Band Support Group here on Long Island that is a real blessing to me and many others. And, yes, I plan of posting to other forums here. You and I have had some serious disagrreement but I never sensed that what you said was only to incite trouble. BJean is another issue. Very sad!

Ron, if you aren't going to leave the board, why don't you post in some of the other threads? Right now, you seem like a troll, because you have posted only one thread, and the one thread you post is email spam that we all get from time to time. If you were really here to give or receive lap-band support (after all, this is a lap-band support site), you would be posting in the other forums and thread. Eventually, BJean and I will stop indulging you, just like everyone else has.

Since this thread started, I have not initiated a single post. Instead I have responded to reaction that I received on the board.

That's not true. You are the one who brought up someone else's personal beliefs by asking about their title of "token athiest". Do I think there was something wrong with that, no. But you can't claim that you did nothing more then post about Anti-Semitism in France.

Edited because I'm not awake enough to post yet apparently!!

Ron: Thank you for being sad for me. I have never in my life had such a bad feeling about a person as I have for you here. You over and over insulted, demeaned and used name-calling to make your point here. It made me sad for you and then, when you continued even after so many people tried to tell you how inappropriate you were being, I felt indignation. I thought I would do my best use what psychologists everywhere use to make a point: that is, to parrot back similar language with similar content. Since you consistently and constantly denied using ill temper and condesention in your language, I thought someone needed to show you how you sounded. In the process, you did get the point, however I'm not sure that it has made one iota of difference to you.

Having other people tell you how right you are and how badly others have treated you tells me that perhaps I have overreacted. I should never, ever have gotten pulled into the fray, especially since I had no argument with you about religion. I just do not like bullies. Whether they are Christian or not, makes no difference to me. Although I must say that it is especially unattractive coming from someone who professes profound religious faith.

I have prayed on this and although I cannot bring myself to apologize to you, because God has told me that you were way off base here, I call a cease fire. I have no quarrel with you any longer. Post whatever and wherever you like. I will do you no harm. You were doing a good job of showing people who you are and what you are up to, without me. Good luck and God Bless.

Thank-you Joan! It is a blessing to hear a friendly voice here. You are right that perhaps I cold have expressed myself differently with some of those posts, but I get my back up when I hear people disrespect the Lord or the Word of God and consider it as old wives tales. I am also concerned for those who, as you know according to the Word of God, will be eternally lost because of their unbelief. Yes, it's their own responsibility, but I don't want to see anyone go to Hell because no one cared enough to tell them the truth.

Someone posted that this is the only forum I posted on and that I was looking for an argument. The truth is that I post many times a day on another board where there is not this hostility, where I feel welcome, and where I have had many serious discussions with wonderful people. I will also post to other forums here as time permits. God bless!

Amen goes there! I've known soooooooooooo many people that fit that description, in fact, I was one of them. I have stayed out of this argument because I don't question anyone on this or any other site about their beliefs or disbeliefs, but I think this has been outrageous! Ron had been attacked over and over again just because he asked a question. I don't believe it was as condesending as it has been made out to be by everyone on this thread. I am a Christian and I'm proud to be one, but I believe after one becomes an adult, they have to make their own choices and be responsible for those choices rather they like the consequences or not. As for Ron sharing his beliefs, I think he could have done it in a better way, but that doesn't make it right to attack him the way he has been here. I think the people who have been on this board for a long time have gone out of their way to make a newcomer feel unwelcome here. That's very sad, in my opinion.

Ron, I hope you stick around on this board for a while and give it a chance. Everyone won't be as defensive as those here have been. However, this thread has been quit entertaining, to say the least.

Joan

I disagree and you have no idea what he might have done if he hadn't had to spend his entire time here defending himself. Just because others aren't coming to his aid, does not mean that the 6 or 7 of you who ganged up on him were right. It just means others have chosen to stand back and allow you to show your true colors and they have held their tongues.

I found this whole thread to be quite an embarrassment to LBT.

Well, there has been a lot of brawling going on, that is for sure. And there are a number of us who do believe that Cusano and his attitude triggered the melee.

I for one do not believe that this thread is an embarrassment to LBT. It has been a messy, a very messy debate but it has not been lacking in intellectual value.

LapBandTalk is a most valuable resource for all of us who post here. This is a site that allows each and everyone of us to assist, educate and support our brothers and sisters in our travels with lapband surgery and with general issues concerning weight and weight loss. We are a global community and yet we all belong here. (I spend a lot of my time loitering in the various fora of this site and because I am a Canadian I appreciate that LBT has taken the trouble to set up a Canuck zone.)

There are, however, a couple of fora where the chat will inevitably become more contentious, the Rant and Raves Forum is one of the two. I think that these two fora are valuable for it is here where members are able to discuss political, cultural, and social issues. While we are all individuals who are struggling with the physical and psychological issues of weight and weight loss we do have other concerns.

Leatha, you must understand that Cusano posted in one of these 'gloves-off' discussion areas. He did not indicate that he was in need of assistance or advice from the members of LBT. He presented himself as fair game and he certainly did participate in the brawl.

As for yourself, I see that you made approximately 3500 posts on this site. This would indicate that you are a long way from being a tongue-tied and intimidated individual yourself.

Ron:

Isn't it a little radical to ask to sabbotage France for something that only a few did? What about the KK in America? Or the guerrillas at Nicaragua? Or that people killing children at Brazil?

Should this countries be sabbotaged too?

No, I do not agree with any kind of violence,antisemitism or descrimination. PLease take people like me in account when asking to sabbotage a country!!! THanks....God Bless

I am not boycotting France due to their antisemitism, I'm boycotting France because of their arrogance toward the rest of the world and their lack of support for the war on terror. I buy none of their products for these reasons, not their treatment of people of any religion.

See, I completely accept that what you say is felt to be the heartfelt truth for believers such as yourself. That's why I completely respect your feelings and right to embrace them. But it just is not convincing to me; I've never felt the stirrings of religious feeling inside me and have no fear of eternal suffering since I don't believe in an everlasting soul. I can't buy in to the idea of salvation since I don't believe in sin. I've thought about it, meditated on it, have experienced many life-changing events in my life in which other people might have found an impetus to a religious awakening. From time to time I've even wanted to belong, wanted to believe, wanted to be comforted by it. But in the end none of it rang true, spoke to me personally, or answered any unfilled need in my life. And thanks, but I think my priorities are in fine order as they are.

The benefits of belonging to a worship community can be real, sure, but they can be found in other sorts of communities as well (such as that of bandsters, mothers, friends, or whomever we find commonality with). And for every person who enjoys and is benefited by their association with a religion, I'd wager there is someone else who has had their life made smaller or in some other way damaged by their or their parents' or teachers' adherence to a strict belief system. (That's their current life here, on earth, the only one I believe exists.)

And when all is said and done, I believe more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other force in human history. A good reason to keep it at arms' length, IMO.

And it's spelled ATHEIST, btw. :huggie:

To Alexandra and all of the other atheists reading this thread, I will share with you an argument I had with a friend of mine who is also an atheist. I shouldn't say argument, just a difference of opinion. Anyway, he told me one day that I acted like a child because I took the Bible for what it said as the true Word of God. I told him that God wants us to have the faith of a child, which he does. He laughed at me, but I also told him a very interesting and true observation . I said, "If I'm right about being a Christian and believing the Bible, I have EVERYTHING to gain. But, if I'm wrong and you are correct, then I haven't lost anything one way or the other." His answer was to tell me I was absolutely right! Therefore, I choose to believe and if I'm wrong, when I die my body will lay in the grave. However, if I'm correct, I will be in Heaven with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for all eternity. The non believers will be the ones who end up in eternal misery in Hell.

Joan

Very eloquent and true! And some will have to look back at the truth they rejected and the opporunities they turned their back on, but it will be too late. I fact, Jesus used the parable of Lasarus, the rich man as an example of this.

And some will have to look back at the truth they rejected and the opporunities they turned their back on, but it will be too late.

To be honest, I feel this way about many Christians. Don't get me wrong, I don't think all Christians stick their heads in the sand, but I truly think some do. I really think that some Christians are so obsessed in their belief of "a better life after death" that they ignore the life they are living now. As an Atheist, I believe that the only life I will live is the one I am currently living, so I better make the most of it. So, to turn your statement around, I believe that some Christians will have to look back on the lives they've lived and the opportunities they turned their backs on, and they will regret it. So I guess my point is that whether you are a Christian or an Atheist, you need to live life to the fullest.

To Alexandra and all of the other atheists reading this thread, I will share with you an argument I had with a friend of mine who is also an atheist. I shouldn't say argument, just a difference of opinion. Anyway, he told me one day that I acted like a child because I took the Bible for what it said as the true Word of God. I told him that God wants us to have the faith of a child, which he does. He laughed at me, but I also told him a very interesting and true observation . I said, "If I'm right about being a Christian and believing the Bible, I have EVERYTHING to gain. But, if I'm wrong and you are correct, then I haven't lost anything one way or the other." His answer was to tell me I was absolutely right! Therefore, I choose to believe and if I'm wrong, when I die my body will lay in the grave. However, if I'm correct, I will be in Heaven with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for all eternity. The non believers will be the ones who end up in eternal misery in Hell.

Joan

[Emphasis mine.]

I've heard this point of view many times, indeed, but fail to see any merit in it. If belief is just picked up because it seems like the best wager, it's not real. And how can it be meaningful if it's not real? What sort of deity wants followers to pay lip service "just in case" it's going to benefit them?

Opening one's heart to religious belief, and then having it come in, is one thing. That is a personal experience no one else can question. But simply choosing to say "I believe" because it's the "safer" thing to do would just make me a hypocrite. And that's one of the very worst things about religion in general--the way it encourages hypocrisy.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As a Christian, I am concerned with living THIS LIFE to the fullest serving Christ, the worldwide Christian church, my local congregation, my family and all people. I get great joy in my life living a moral existance, enjoying sweet fellowship and having much internal peace even in the face of worldly tribulation. Most Christians that I know, and I know many, many, all would say the same. I have lived the first 30 years of my live as an unbeliever, and the last 30+ as a Believer, and I can tell you that there is no comparison. On the other side of that coin, athiests have nothing to compare with since they have never experienced the true Christian life. If God were to call me home tonight, my only regret would be that I did not come to faith sooner.

To be honest, I feel this way about many Christians. Don't get me wrong, I don't think all Christians stick their heads in the sand, but I truly think some do. I really think that some Christians are so obsessed in their belief of "a better life after death" that they ignore the life they are living now. As an Atheist, I believe that the only life I will live is the one I am currently living, so I better make the most of it. So, to turn your statement around, I believe that some Christians will have to look back on the lives they've lived and the opportunities they turned their backs on, and they will regret it. So I guess my point is that whether you are a Christian or an Atheist, you need to live life to the fullest.

Before I say goodnight after all of these posts, I too want to say thank you to Ron. As others have said, you weren't on here all by yourself and there are those of us who really appreciate alot of what you have been saying. I don't blame you for not wanting to acknowledge BJean, she is very rude.

... I get great joy in my life living a moral existance, enjoying sweet fellowship and having much internal peace even in the face of worldly tribulation. ... On the other side of that coin, athiests have nothing to compare with since they have never experienced the true Christian life. ....

I, too, live a fairly moral life...I haven't staple-gunned kittens to any fence posts...I don't blow up doctors when I hear voices (well, I don't actually hear voices, but if I did)...haven't stood outside clinics telling people they'll burn in hell because they disagree with me...haven't sent any kids off to foreign lands to kill or be killed so that my buddies can make a buck...haven't believed or said that AIDS is a just punishment from God...haven't robbed any banks, that kind of thing.

I wonder how you think you know what atheists have experienced, though. Could be we're just as happy as you are and don't need validation through some external locus of control. But, since Christians haven't experienced the true atheistic life, you'll never know.

Oh, and if I were to drop dead tonight, I'd probably regret the time and money I gave to the hucksters in the name of God...but I outgrew that shit early on, so I don't have THAT much to be sorry for.

then somehow happened here and was taken down by a flock of prowling atheists. ".

sorry, I know this is a serious subject, but I just had to say Wheetsin, I really got a giggle out of this quote.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled rant....cat