I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

I agree with pam that it should not be the only birthcontrol method. 8 is excessive. and costly.

green you are also correct. taking care of the little ones that arent ddoing well in the wold is WAY better then hearing about gagetladys sex life..

Not to mention much more important to help the ones that are here and struggling.....

Actually, you're right...I shouldn't generalize. Although I do consider abortion a selfish choice in many cases (and it's okay if we have to agree to disagree on that point), it's not always a "convenient" choice. I do realize that it's a very, very hard decision for some mothers. I understand how scared many of them had to have been to feel like they needed to make that decision. I think that's one of the problems with "abortion on demand". Often times these girls are so scared that they sometimes make "rash" decisions to abort their child, without really understanding the consequences of their decision. ...

Not every person having an abortion is a confused kid. I'm thinking about a married woman I met a few times--the sister of a friend--an RN, who had Type I Diabetes....could never conceive...had two adopted children...lived in a farming area in middle Illinois. At age 40, her vision took a dump. Doctor couldn't figure why. Other problems...mostly related to diabetes. Finally, up to the big city. She was pregnant. After twenty years of unprotected sex (the first ten because she wanted to get pregnant and the next ten because she knew she couldn't get pregnant), she was pregnant. Husband worked in the city--a 2.5 hour drive each way...because they couldn't make a living with the little farm. They kids were driven everywhere locally by the mom. They had a few acres to farm, the rest were leased out. And there she was, with her two adopted children who had already each lost a mom, getting sicker by the day and going blind...because she was pregnant for the first time in her life at age 40 with advanced diabetes.

AND, according to the testing available then, the fetus wasn't doing well either. So, they opted for an abortion and it was VERY difficult for them because they had always believed that abortions were just wrong.

After the abortion, she was one of the first people implanted with an insulin pump that constantly monitored her blood glucose levels and delivered the drug to her as her body needed it. I've lost touch with the family, but I know that after that pregnancy, her health was in rapid decline.

I'm just sayin', she--in concert with her husband and doctor--made the best decision she could at that time. Who are any of us to criticize her?

For me, the issue is one simple question...who decides?

I'm just sayin', she--in concert with her husband and doctor--made the best decision she could at that time. Who are any of us to criticize her?

For me, the issue is one simple question...who decides?

The decision should be left ultimately to the one WHO WILL BE RAISING the child. Do not get me wrong aborotion for me is 100% not an option. But I am also 30, set in life and have a clear idea of who I am.

Abortion should NEVER be used as birth control, but let's face it sometimes things happen. Condoms break, the pill is taken late ect. These women who have taken measures and CLEARLY do not want children be punished?

And my biggest problem is the people who are so strongly opposed against abortion are the same one who complain about welfare, and the number of children on it. Let's be real. Sometimes accidents happen, and why should these women have children they don't want. Worse case is the children are born into a home where they KNOW they were unwanted are abused, beaten ect. because of it.

I believe that abortion is wrong for me, but it also my life I make the choices for. It is not my right to judge or dispose my position on someone else. I will someday answer to God, and if because I believe in individual choice I go to hell, than so be it. I will NOT tell someone else to carry a child to term that they will not love or take care of.

And please do NOT get me started on adoption. I have tried to adopt and know HOW hard it is to do! The number of ethnic children sitting in foster homes and adoption agencies is frightening, and what kind of life to these children have? Let's be honest the majority that adopt want the perfect little white baby, and the rest of the beautiful children suffer!

The decision should be left ultimately to the one WHO WILL BE RAISING the child. Do not get me wrong aborotion for me is 100% not an option. But I am also 30, set in life and have a clear idea of who I am.

Abortion should NEVER be used as birth control, but let's face it sometimes things happen. Condoms break, the pill is taken late ect. These women who have taken measures and CLEARLY do not want children be punished?

And my biggest problem is the people who are so strongly opposed against abortion are the same one who complain about welfare, and the number of children on it. Let's be real. Sometimes accidents happen, and why should these women have children they don't want. Worse case is the children are born into a home where they KNOW they were unwanted are abused, beaten ect. because of it.

I believe that abortion is wrong for me, but it also my life I make the choices for. It is not my right to judge or dispose my position on someone else. I will someday answer to God, and if because I believe in individual choice I go to hell, than so be it. I will NOT tell someone else to carry a child to term that they will not love or take care of.

And please do NOT get me started on adoption. I have tried to adopt and know HOW hard it is to do! The number of ethnic children sitting in foster homes and adoption agencies is frightening, and what kind of life to these children have? Let's be honest the majority that adopt want the perfect little white baby, and the rest of the beautiful children suffer!

:clap2: That's exactly how I feel.

Abortion should NEVER be used as birth control, but let's face it sometimes things happen. Condoms break, the pill is taken late ect. These women who have taken measures and CLEARLY do not want children be punished?

But why should the pre-born baby be punished and killed?

But why should the pre-born baby be punished and killed?

What "punished?" (And it's a fetus, but you can call it whatever you like.)

And my biggest problem is the people who are so strongly opposed against abortion are the same one who complain about welfare, and the number of children on it.

I am a person opposed to abortion who does not complain about welfare, or the number of children on it. So, as a blanket statement, your blanket is all wet.

The number of ethnic children sitting in foster homes and adoption agencies is frightening, and what kind of life to these children have? Let's be honest the majority that adopt want the perfect little white baby, and the rest of the beautiful children suffer!

I think the popularity of bi-racial adoptions has increased, partly due to celebrity examples, such as Tom Cruise, Madonna, and Anjolina Jolee.

I am a person opposed to abortion who does not complain about welfare, or the number of children on it. So, as a blanket statement, your blanket is all wet.

I think the popularity of bi-racial adoptions has increased, partly due to celebrity examples, such as Tom Cruise, Madonna, and Anjolina Jolee.

Carlene

You know that you may be a small minority that doesn't complain, let's be honest about that!

And yes, it has become more popular, which is sad considering that it has to become "Cool" to adopt biracially.

NOT that this will settle anything....yet there is a reality many have not been exposed to regarding those facing the issue of unwanted pregnancy.....

Among the various individuals I worked with, ages ranged from 14 to 48; from class valedictorian to one unable to tie her own shoes; from 'healthy' to 'bearly able to walk'; from a family of wealth and means to those without any resources financial, emotional OR religious; cases involving statutory rape, a few incest, a scattering of criminal assault....

Whatever the religious, philosophical or political position of those onlookers, I don't recall many of these women who made their decision easily. And I don't recall any of those 'ADC' families ever admitting (to me at least) that the few extra $$ was what made them seek additional parenting opportunities.

In a way, such pregnancies are similar to those of us Morbidly Obese....everyone else has an opinion and a solution to OUR problem and seeks to soothe themselves by imposing THEIR answer on OUR lives...

There is a line various religious factions never seem able to accept, which is that people who do NOT hold that belief (whichever faction) does not feel bound to behavior or choices guided by that voice...no matter how much sense it makes.

Some of the most difficult situations were of those women who HAD been raised in the folds of a religious community, who could not find a way to resolve the conflict between the abortion/adoption choices.

At its best, the various religious groups did what they could to support such women.

I witnessed some really heart breaking situations which were worsend by the well-intended imposition of the 'helper' belief on the 'helpee'.

Whichever choice the birth mother makes, society at large becomes the defacto absent parent provider. Sometimes that works well, sometimes not. Just like 'real' family life.

AMEN Jack, as always point well taken.

But why should the pre-born baby be punished and killed?

Is it better for them to be born into a life of hate and possibly poverty where they are abused? That doesn't seem like much of a life.

I am a person opposed to abortion who does not complain about welfare, or the number of children on it. So, as a blanket statement, your blanket is all wet.

I think the popularity of bi-racial adoptions has increased, partly due to celebrity examples, such as Tom Cruise, Madonna:phanvan , and Anjolina Jolee:phanvan .

Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman adopted their son Connor @ least 11 years ago, who is bi-racial. Madonna and Angelina Jolie both went out of the country to adopt. Madonna's in the process of adopting a Malawian baby. Angelina's son Maddox is Cambodian and the little girl is Ethiopian.

Maybe you meant transracial adoption (I think that's the term). But, if anything I would think that this more recent adoptions are drawing more attention to adopting out of the U.S.

What "punished?" (And it's a fetus, but you can call it whatever you like.)

If you look at Dr. Tiller's web site (the famous late-term abortionist in Wichita), he prefers to call it "the delivery of a premature stillborn". That just sounds so much nicer than "abortion", doesn't it? He sells "Remembrance Services" too - footprints, photos, baptism, etc. For babies...not fetuses.

From his web site...

Many patients request a remembrance of their baby to take home with them. The following lists items and services that some of our previous patients have found helpful in their emotional recovery. Everyone approaches this experience with their own unique emotional, spiritual, and cultural background. There is not a right way or wrong way, just "your way". Once the process of healing has begun, you may want to consider a token of the precious time you and your baby had together.

If you ask me (and I do realize no one has), this guy is a jerk, out to make as much money as he can off misery and desperation.

Carlene

You know that you may be a small minority that doesn't complain, let's be honest about that!

I am being honest, and you are stating your opinion as if it were fact, which it isn't. Facts can be proven....opinions can't.

If you look at Dr. Tiller's web site (the famous late-term abortionist in Wichita), he prefers to call it "the delivery of a premature stillborn". That just sounds so much nicer than "abortion", doesn't it? He sells "Remembrance Services" too - footprints, photos, baptism, etc. For babies...not fetuses.

From his web site...

Many patients request a remembrance of their baby to take home with them. The following lists items and services that some of our previous patients have found helpful in their emotional recovery. Everyone approaches this experience with their own unique emotional, spiritual, and cultural background. There is not a right way or wrong way, just "your way". Once the process of healing has begun, you may want to consider a token of the precious time you and your baby had together.

If you ask me (and I do realize no one has), this guy is a jerk, out to make as much money as he can off misery and desperation.

What an A$$. I will say that late term abortion is absolutely wrong.

Abortion should NEVER be used as birth control

Why not?

I believe that abortion is wrong for me

Why?