Yes, it's true.

Respecting the office doesn't mean whitewashing what goes on there.

We have brains and we have history and when we use our brains to judge Bush against history, he doesn't stack up. I don't have to have been President to know if a particular president is worse than another one just like I don't have to be able to play baseball to be able to umpire it.

My words also..... The Big Bafoon.....

Respecting the office doesn't mean whitewashing what goes on there.

We have brains and we have history and when we use our brains to judge Bush against history, he doesn't stack up. I don't have to have been President to know if a particular president is worse than another one just like I don't have to be able to play baseball to be able to umpire it.

Hmmm, I will overlook any implications there and play nice.

Again, unless you spend the majority of your time on Capitol Hill or working for the alphabet soup with top secret clearance and have all the facts and have seen all the intelligence, I for one will not judge to this degree. It is so easy to sit back in our easy chairs and point fingers. Whether it was Reagan, Clinton or W, they all age about 20 years in their second term and I would not want to be them for all the money in the world. What an awful job. No thanks!

We can "agree to disagree".

kissyjean: Since you are from Illinois, perhaps you have some information about Senator Obama that I haven't heard. I would be very interested in knowing what it is that makes you anti-Senator Obama.

I do not understand, for the life of me, how serving in a war or being a POW and suffering disabling injuries can possibly qualify a person for being president. It may underscore your belief that he is a man of honor, which is a great quality for a president to have. So in that way, I understand your point. I see why his adopting a handicapped child is something to be admired. But there's a lot of baggage that has come with his marriage and his service on the hill that is not attractive. None the least of which are his numerous prounouncements of a particular direction he believes in wholeheartedly, only for him to recant that statement and go in a completely different direction later - sometimes even just days later.

He has accused Senator Obama of flip flopping but I have not found that to be true in nearly every case where he made the accusation. He has perfected the art of spin, which I am sure he learned over his many long years of dealing with the press. And we voters are very quick to buy into the spin without seriously checking out the truth. I believe we do that because it is not only convincing on the surface, but we WANT to believe anything that our candidate says.

So we not only believe it, we repeat it, we revel in it and we applaud the man for saying it. We should be ashamed for blindly accepting things that we know are hateful, dishonest and blatantly disrespectful to either candidate. One of these men is likely to be our next president. We should be as respectful of the candidates running for the office as we think everyone should be of the president himself. If we were smart, we would stick to the real issues. Sometimes that's just too much work for us Americans. We don't want to give it that much time or energy.

I once thought I could support John McCain, but that was long before I learned what the man is really made of. He is not what he promises to be and I feel that I know what I would be getting if he won the election. That is why I would never vote for him.

I respect his service to this country. My heart goes out to him regarding his torture at the hands of his captors. But he's a desperate man and desperate men are capable of bad things. Listen closely to what he says about Senator Obama. Watch the Republican way of winning elections and if you can look past what you see and you can endorse their activities, then more power to you. I've been around a long time and I just hate what elections have become in this country.

All that being said, I am sincerely interested in any information you can provide that makes you dislike the idea of Senator Obama being our next president.

I don't have to set up a lawn chair on capital hill to know that Bush is a horrible president. All I have to do is fill up my gas tank, send care packages to the men I know overseas right now in a war we can't get out of but that the US should never have begun, or try to get my taxes togethor with my partner. All these things tell me he is was and is a train wreck for this nation.

Edited July 31, 200818 yr by ReadySteadyGo
my bad grammer

Amen to that! I'm proud to say that I've never voted for a Bush. Whomever wins the presidency in this next election really has their hands full. I can't imagine things will get better for quite a bit of time. It took 8 years to do the damage. It won't get cleaned up overnight.

I don't have to set up a lawn chair on capital hill to know that Bush is a horrible president. All I have to do is fill up my gas tank, send care packages to the men I know overseas right now in a war we can't get out of but that the US should never had began, or try to get my taxes togethor with my partner. All these things tell me he is was and is a train wreck for this nation.

In the matter of this race for the presidency, vacuous as a definition for experience is an interesting observation on your part, Jack. Especially since you go on to demean Senator Obama's experience in the same post.

I believe experience is an important commodity in most jobs. However you sure can't count on experience to be the most important component for job qualification. For instance John McCain has lots of experience but his intellect is lacking. Senator Obama, on the other hand, is a brilliant man and has an awesome value system - one that McCain obviously lacks. In this particular race I believe that intelligence trumps experience.

I am so sick of McCain's glomming onto the usual Republican tactic of saying anything and everything, real or imagined, honest and dishonest, just hoping that some of it sticks. Some of it always sticks, of course, and that's exactly how Republicans get elected in this country. They refuse to stick to the actual issues and much prefer to get all ugly and personal. It has been particularly ugly and dishonest over the past 3 weeks or so.

I know why people choose to believe the lies and half-truths that they hear their candidate say, but for the life of me I can't understand how they can sleep at night when they put a guy like that in office.

In fact, a good example of what I'm talking about is found at the bottom of this thread.

It is a question that asks: "Is it okay to Unconditionally meet with anti-American Foreign leaders?" Yes____ or No____

Paid for by John McCain for President.

Now exactly when did Senator Obama suggest that it is okay for anyone to meet "UNCONDITIONALLY" with Anti-American Foreign leaders????? The honest answer is: He never has suggested or said that AT ALL! He said that he believes that it is in the best interests of the United States of America to meet with any and all heads of state of foreign countries... but he also said that we should not meet unconditionally with anti-American leaders.

Of course he said it much better than I just did, but does this stop the Republicans or John McCain specifically from suggesting that Senator Obama thinks it is okay for a president to meet with foreign enemies of the United States? No. They go right ahead and ignore the truth and ignore what Senator Obama actually said and believes, and continue to lead people down the path of painting Senator Obama with a tainted brush.

Republicans can't win without their dirty tricks. They proved it with Richard Nixon and have continued to prove it in every presidential (and many local) races since then.

They believe that they are right about bombing Iraq. The fact is that they were and are wrong. They suggest that Senator Obama is wrong for wanting to get us out of Iraq. They have tried to paint that truth with the worst possible scenario - saying that Senator Obama would sell our troops down the river and leave a job undone by pulling out troops too rapidly.

Lies, half-truths, ugly innuendo. That's what this race is about now and I for one, am sick to death of it.

Senator Obama, on the other hand, is a brilliant man and has an awesome value system

How do you know this?

Have you guys seen the "celeb" type commercial. Where Obama is compared with Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton?

Wow.

Oh I haven't seen that. What happens?

re: " What happens?"

There's a website that features it. Not sure of the name, but probably google something like "Paris Hilton ad" will give the link.

I found it on "Funny or Die" but unfortunately my work comp. has no speakers so I will have to wait till I get home to enjoy it.

plain if you don't know it, you aren't paying attention.

Jack if you can find a link that shows Senator Obama saying that he endorses meeting with anti-american leaders with no conditions, I would really appreciate you sharing. I've been very attentive to what both candidates have said and never saw him utter such a statement. Please, enlighten me.

I don't know how I've missed the fact that Senator Obama has said lies about McCain. I really have been watching everything I can. I'm not saying that he hasn't criticized McCain - there's plenty of that. But I haven't heard any lies or half-truths.

And as for Senator Obama's voting and performance record, I completely agree with everything he's done in his limited career (limited compared to the aged McCain's career) and I appreciate nearly everything he would like to see changed. When I learned that he voted against the war in Iraq, I knew that he was an intelligent person who isn't afraid to stand up for his convictions. I appreciated that he stood up for what was right at the time and I appreciate that he continues to move in the direction that I believe this country should be moving in.

I believed McCain when he said he wanted to keep this campaign clean. He stood up to the plate when he decried the Swift Boat debacle so I figured he meant what he said. But now the Karl Rove machine has been brought in and this campaign is no better than the ones they ran in the past. Rebublicans should insist on better from their candidates and the men who run their campaigns.

Actually preconditions and unconditional are not the same. But I'm not one to quibble. Uh, well, maybe so... I'll go to the link and see if I interpret what was said in the same way that the McCain camp has.

Your last sentence makes me wonder why you even bother participating in a discussion of this sort if you do not think that presidents have any bearing on change in this country.

If there have been no changes (that George Bush promised) since the time of Bill Clinton, I'm a monkey's uncle. But if you are saying that the changes candidates promise are different from the changes that they actually affect, then I agree. And I especially agree in the case of George W. Bush. He promised smaller government when he has delivered just the opposite. He promised big tax cuts and what he delivered are little rebates to some of the people. He never promised a rose garden and in that way he certainly delivered.

Jack, Obama's movement from the left towards the middle was totally expected. On one of these forums, I even asked BJean how she would feel when it inevitably happened.

The majority of the American public don't want what the uber-liberals want. Ergo, to be elected, a liberal candidate must move to the middle. This was fated to happen ever since Obama clinched the nomination.