Ok so I love polls. And I love politics. So what political party has the most lapband recipient votes? We'll soon find out!!

Carlene: You gotta be careful about "studies". I'm sure you know that they can be skewed any way they want them, if the questions and parameters are carefully structured. For instance, they didn't just use the term salary to compare compensation between government and private sector jobs, they included "and benefits."

Actually, it said (quote)

Edwards’ report — which showed that without benefits, the difference in average federal and private employee salaries is $71,114 to $43,917 — drew criticism from taxpayer watchdog groups and agreement from federal-employee groups.

The disparity between the salaries has steadily grown through the years. Ten years ago, federal employees took home an average of $62,359 in salary and benefits, compared with $36,330 for private-sector employees, according to the May report based on data from the U.S. Commerce Department’s Bureau of Economic Analysis.

I do not for one moment doubt that your personal experience did not coincide with this study. Like mileage, personal experience may vary. Since I've never worked for the feds, the closest "personal" barometer I have is my BIL, and I have already mentioned what a sweetheart deal he got from Uncle Sam.

Religion is the one thing I am not willing to debate on this forum. Discuss, yes - but not debate. For a Catholic to actively participate in an abortion is an ex communicable sin, therefore, I would never consider doing so. Allowing the Pople to dictate that to me is the same thing as "allowing" the Sheriff to dictate that should I murder my next door neighbor, I will be excommunicated from society, ie: locked up. In both instances, I choose to follow the rules. However, if someone else wants to kill their baby, I will not try and stop them. I am not an anti-abortion activist. I respect other women's right to follow their own conscience and beliefs. I know women personally who have had abortions. Many of them regret their decision...some do not. I offer both the same thing: a warm shoulder to cry on and the love of a sister to lean on.

I still am very far away from being convinced that inheritance tax is a good way to keep the wealthy "in check" without hurting the common man that has worked hard to accumulate wealth.

Just how wealthy do you plan to be when you die, Fay? Most of us aren't going to have to worry about it (unfortunately....LOL).

According to United for a Fair Economy (UFE), the rise in the estate tax exemption level from $1.5 million per person to $2 million ($4 million per couple) means that less than one third of one percent of all U.S. estates (0.27 percent) will be affected by the federal estate tax in 2006. The other 99.73 percent of estates can pass on 100 percent of their assets to heirs tax-free. Out of an estimated 2.3 million deaths in 2006, an estimated 6,343 estates will pay the tax. The share of estates taxed will fall to 0.16 percent in 2009, when the exemption rises to $3.5 million.

. However, if someone else wants to kill their baby, I will not try and stop them. I am not an anti-abortion activist. I respect other women's right to follow their own conscience and beliefs. I know women personally who have had abortions. Many of them regret their decision...some do not. I offer both the same thing: a warm shoulder to cry on and the love of a sister to lean on.

Being one of those people that march every year (hey, I live near DC, you almost have to march about something!..haha) I think this is all were trying to accomplish..majority of the people there have never had abortions, wouldnt make that choice themselves but also wont be arrogant enough to make "moral" (jeez I hate that word) and judgmental desicions for others.

I applaud you for seeing what the real issue is with choice..too many people see it as being "pro-abortion" which it is not. No one wants to have one. No one wants to be put in that position, but it happens. Using it for bith control is the most rediculous thing i have ever heard. Every right we have in this country has people who abuse it or take it for granted..so is the case with this one.

One can debate this issue over and over and I didnt want this forum to turn into that.....BUT, when reffering to GW...someone like me has cringe at the thought of him appointing Supreme Court Justices that want to pass "moral" (ughh) judgment which of course can change laws for the next 50 years or so. (I wont even get into how rediculous lifetime appointments are!!).

So my point (sorry to ramble) is that even though those of us who despise gw are greatful for the ending of his term...this clown has made choices that can cause generations of grief for the American people which is frightening!

Thanks everyone for being so civil! I think its great that I can air my views without ridicule!

Personally, if I was overly wealthy, a majority of my money would be in offshore accounts. Yes....that's illegal. But I "could" do it if I wanted to.

It is not illegal to own an offshore or foreign account. My DH and I have money in a foreign bank. It is only illegal if you (a) are using the account in an attempt to hide illegal activity or (:confused: you don't report earnings from foreign bank acconts.

As for not getting caught....if they can bust a 12 year old for downloading music, they can bust you, too. Don't kid yourself.

Where near DC do you live? My BIL lives in Old Town (Alexandria) and I absolutely LOVE it there. I am so going to hate it when they move permanently to Kansas City and we don't have a good reason to go to DC several times a year - or a free place to stay (LOL).

Can you imagine trading Old Town for KC? What are they thinking? Must be the grandkids. They are all in Kansas City.

Sorry for the hijacking.

Carlene: I appreciate that you are not in a position or want to "debate" abortion or religion, but please tell me you don't equate murdering your next door neighbor to having an abortion. If you believe that they are the same thing, I'm afraid I don't understand. I am certainly not as eloquent as you, but I hope you will please hang in there with me and try to understand what I'm asking and saying.

Doesn't it make any difference that a fetus is not viable without its' host? I know you said that you believe that life begins at conception, as do I, however, physiologically or biologically a fertilized egg cannot continue to live and thrive without a mommie of some sort. I'm honestly trying to understand. I have very strong feelings about this, but just like everything else in my life, I crave information whether it is contrary to my beliefs up until now or not.

(BTW, I am a card carrying United Methodist parishoner, but I attend mass with my DH and kids, who are all Catholic.)

It is important and wonderful that you are so caring to women who have had to deal with this question up close and personal. Do you think that Congress and the Supreme Court will ensure that those same women get that kind of respect from the government if Roe v. Wade were overturned? Silly sounding question, but historically women have been disrespected by our government in very important ways.

It's great that your Bro-in-law had such a great outcome from his government employment. Do you think that his experience is fairly routine across the board for government employees? We know hundreds of people personally and our own experience tells us that it is just not true for the masses. Nice rosy picture though! As for the Star-Telegram and the government employee issue, I live in Ft. Worth and I stopped subscribing. I understand they're having trouble giving it away to keep their advertising numbers where they need to be.

Does anybody know if Serendipity is still a thriving business in Old Town Alexandria? The woman who owned it bought my store in Fairfax County when we moved to Florida. A wonderful woman, with excellent taste! LOL

Old Town has always been a favorite haunt of mine too. We have lived in Virginia several times and I would move back in a heartbeat!

What's a highjacking? Boy am I a novice when it comes to this internet jibe! If I'm supposed to apologize, I do, I really do.

What's a highjacking? Boy am I a novice when it comes to this internet jibe! If I'm supposed to apologize, I do, I really do.

It's when you post something totally off topic in the middle of another person's thread. Sometimes a whole string of people will respond to that, the off topic post, and the discussion just goes off in another direction and never gets back on course.

Carlene..I live in Sterling now but just moved from Reston. Was born in Fairfax. I was raised in MD mostly and would move back there in a heartbeat...I have lived all around Northern Va and Maryland..and no where else!

Carlene: I appreciate that you are not in a position or want to "debate" abortion or religion, but please tell me you don't equate murdering your next door neighbor to having an abortion.

What I said was, if I participate in an abortion, the Pope will excommunicate me from the Church. If I kill my next door neighbor, the Sheriff will excommunicate me from society, ie: lock me up. I could just as easily have said if I steal my neighbor's car, the Sheriff will excommunicate me. And that's probably what I should have said.

Under the law, killing a newborn generally does not carry the same penalty as running down your two-timing spouse with your Mercedes (happened not too long ago in Houston). I don't know why that is. The newborn's life is rarely valued as highly as the cheating husband's. I don't know if that's right or wrong....it just is the way it is. But deliberately taking a human life MUST be wrong. I just can't see it as ever being acceptable, unless it is self-defense and you have absolutely no other choice.

I have a very high regard for human life. I have had someone die in my arms. I could come about as close to killing my neighbor as I could to having an abortion, so I guess in that context, I do think they are comparable. Beyond that, I just can't say.

Soldiers kill in the line of duty. So do police officers. I have a very good friend who gave his terminally ill wife an overdose of morphine, because she asked him to. Would I kill if I were a soldier, or a police officer? Would I give my Cancer-ridden husband a lethal dose of pain meds to ease his pain and end his life? I don't know. Are you sure you could go through with an abortion, if it came down to the wire? Do any of us know what we would do if we suddenly found ourselves in someone else's skin?

I am not God, and I refuse to judge other people. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Carlene my daughter just carried her baby boy, Jake for 8.5 months and he died before we could hold him, on July 2nd. I have taken care of my breast cancer riddled mother on her death bed, and I have had to sit through the gut-wrenching death of my father after a botched surgical procedure, so death is very, very real to me.

And Life is very, very precious. All life is precious. A woman's right to life is just as precious and important as her unborn child's life. No one should ever have to choose one over the other. But none of this is the issue for me. The issue is that some people on this earth want to tell other people what they should do in personal sometimes life-altering situations. I prefer to believe that we live in a country where the right to make one's own personal decisions is guaranteed and is the same for everyone.

There are man made rules and their are God made rules. Sometimes men think they are God and that they can make all the rules for the rest of us. That's where I draw the line.

Carlene and BJean, I love you both. :confused: What a wonderful, moving discussion. Thank you both for taking the time to be so thoughtful, honest, yet circumspect in your posts!

Morally Liberal Democrat, Morally Conservative Democrat, Morally Liberal Republican, Morally Conservative Republican, Independant.

moral

I have a HUGE problem with this word and phrase. Having "morals" is way too subjective. I am a supporter of choice not because I am immoral or because I like the idea of terminating pregnancies, I am pro choice because I dont think its up to others to decide whats "moral" for me or others. No one can dictate whats moral and not.

I also want to point out that "liberating" Iraq wasnt for the people of Iraq in case no one has figured that out yet. He tricked the poeple into thinking that Saddam was connected to 911, took the oportune time after 911 when people wanted to see somone "pay" for all the hurt that we were all feeling. Obviously was mistaken about the WPD and ruined Colin Powells carreer over that one. The deception over Iraq should be enough for people to be angered.

If it was truly about Sadamn being a tyrant (which of course he was) why in the hell arent we demanding action in Darfur where millions of people are being torured, suppressed, raped and murdered by their own govenrment?

One answer...bcause they dont have anything we want...

Shameless really...

Scribby,

I agree with you completely regarding the abortion issue, I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice. Simply stated, I don't think it's right to impose my morality (or anyone else's) on someone else.

As for BuSh (I like TOM's spelling, LOL!) and his reasons for invading Iraq, PULEEZE!!! Liberating Iraq from a tyrant?? What about the tribal wars in Africa where women, children and the elderly are being raped, mutilated and murdered by the thousands??? Oh wait, I forgot, there's no oil in Africa!! Silly me!!!:rolleyes

BTW, I'm loving this thread. It's such a testament to the people on the MB that something as touchy as politics can be discussed rationally and respectfully. Great job everyone!!:clap2:

I agree that it is not my right to impose my morals on anyone else. I would NEVER abort a baby, but I do understand there are worse things...

Parents that raise children that they literally hate and never wanted. That is where child abuse can begin. Mothers that have children after using drugs the entire pregnancy.

And yes, there are so many people that would love to adopt a baby, but I actually DO NOT agree with that when there are SOOOOOO many kids that are older that never get adopted because they are just too old. It is sad.

So while I think abortion is wrong for me, I also know it is the right choice in many cases.