"I'm not doing anything wrong. I've got nothing to hide. Let the US government listen to my phone or monitor my e-mails. Let the US government do what they need to do."

I hear statements like that all the time, but if the US government was so efficient, so honest and so benevolent, then how would things like this happen?

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says "we seek to satisfy ourselves that they will not be tortured". Maybe you were satisfied, but I am not satisfied and I doubt Mr. Maher Arar and his family are satisfied either.

Sent to Syria? I thought Syria was our enemy. Is there something going on we should know about? If Mr. Arar was a terrorist, wouldn't the Syrians have treated him like a hero instead of torturing him?

Why send him to Jordan or Syria? Couldn't the USA have interrogated him? Couldn't the USA have interrogated him since they weren't going to break any laws by torturing him? Or did the USA figure that only torture could produce the results they needed? What better way to wash your hands of a human being's rights? The USA doesn't torture anyone!! Not US.

Next time you are so quick to give up your rights and the rights of others, think about these problems. I was going to say, "think about these mistakes", but the USA doesn't think it was a "mistake". Canada thinks it was a mistake, but Canada can't beat the USA in a war, so who cares what Canada thinks? Right Mr. Gonzales? Right Mr. BuSh?

More importantly, "Who cares what half of the American population thinks"? As long as enough Americans say, "I'm not doing anything wrong. I've got nothing to hide. Let the US government do what they need to do", then these things will keep happening. Mr. Arar's torture and the years taken from his life are a small price to pay. Right Mr. Gonzales? Right Mr. BuSh?

If only the US government knew what they were doing. If only the US public knew what they were condoning.

As long as it isn't me they are after I don't care! That is how the Holocaust came about...That is how we placate ourselves into thinking any gains justifies the means! I got mine I don't care if you get yours! All this is the reason we have all gotten to where we are. Take but don't give anything. Jealousy, zealots of religion and greed drive human nature.

If you don't think so...you are hiding your head in the sand. All of those are evil things that the Bible preaches against. But, those who live and thrive on those things are the very ones who profess Godliness.

Our president is one of them. He indeed was raised with a silver foot in his mouth as Ann Richards said of his father. Amazing how Americans can let an ignorant evil man lead us down this path. Lies and more lies are his stock in trade. If it wasn't for lies he wouldn't have anything to say.

To call people who disagree with his politics unpatriotic is an outrage.

Reminds me of my own misguided mother who professed that it was good to forgive others without thinking of her own need to apologize for her own part in creating problems for others. Self righteousness is all we are brought up on. America is always on the right side of any issue....Not so fast on that thought.

The Golden Rule is a long lost thought.

Faith based social services is another misguided attempt at serving the unfortunate. Repent and be saved and we will help you. Otherwise hit the road. Put another way ... become Islamic and Mohammed will bless you with how many virgins? Yes, I am talking the same God...just a different name and book of revelations...

Let us keep Politics out of our churches for a change. It works both ways. When either mix it is surefire way to create war.

Amen, brother.

As I've heard said, "ALL POWER CORRUPTS AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY."

The US today is a shining example of how this becomes true. Don't question authority (or you're unAmerican), don't criticize the government (or you don't support our troops), if you're not with us you're against us, privacy invasions, efforts to remove the checks and balances of our government (fillibusters are a GOOD thing), acting without the blessings of the U.N... Even the changing of the constitution has been seriously debated.

I am constantly amazed by how many people do not see anything wrong with this picture.

And everytime I get on my soapbox about how stupid current airline security process is, people look at me like I've lost my mind. I don't feel safer now that liquids and gels are not allowed on airlines. Do people REALLY think that a terrorist would be so easily foibled??? If I really needed some gel or liquid to do my dirty deed I can think of lots of easy ways to get that stuff on the plane. Heck, I don't need to get it on the plane, I'll just wait until they serve it to me or get it from the airplane's bathroom sink. And if it needed to be a "special" liquid I can seal that up in a baggie and slip it in my bra, or sock, or mouth, or even just my pocket. If I, as an unmotivated person, can just casually think of so many ways around the system...

And if someone thinks that ALL the airline workers are above a hefty bribe to over look a few things (when our wealthiest and supposedly most "trustworthy" politicians are not), then they are really in denial.

We need to take reasonable steps for safety - I'm not saying we don't. But there comes a point where we have lost more than we have gained. And safety can NEVER be guaranteed.

It is not my intention to insult those who voted for him...I voted for Nixon...twice.

But, there comes a time when you have to deal with reality. Even if it means admitting you were dead wrong about someone or something.

I think that a lot of people who believed that he was a decent man are quietly disappointed. That begs the question, are they going to fall for the NEXT line of BS handed out by the NEXT snake oil salesman, or are able to say something like, "You know those people I don't like? Maybe I should listen to them this time around?"

It isn't going to happen for many. Years ago, Donahue was interviewing some sweet, obviously low-income, not very well educated old lady who was upset at the Jim & Tammy Faye thing and instead of being concerned about the kajillion dollars those people had conned out of the believers, she was upset that Tammy Faye mentioned that the dress she was wearing that day cost "only $35." The old lady was outraged that anyone would spend that much on a dress when she made her clothes herself for much less. So she wasn't going to send them any more money...she found ANOTHER crooked tele-evangelist to send her money to. It was sad.

But you know...I think there is a good percentage of America whose only contact with others is Home Shopping and religious television. They believe...and do as told by their "friends."

If Home Shopping is selling flags and the religious guys are telling them that Dubya has protected them from a bunch of brown people who were gonna blow-up the Piggly Wiggly...well, what do we expect?

Oh my! No rebuttal!

This is unAmerican not to rebutt these few with the unacceptable opinions!

It's great to see that for once, everyone agrees...

LOL

Can we really all be in agreement?

And everytime I get on my soapbox about how stupid current airline security process is, people look at me like I've lost my mind. I don't feel safer now that liquids and gels are not allowed on airlines. Do people REALLY think that a terrorist would be so easily foibled??? If I really needed some gel or liquid to do my dirty deed I can think of lots of easy ways to get that stuff on the plane.

This should make you feel better (NOT). On September 4th I boarded a plane at Reagan International in Washington DC (always very tight security). I had 2 tubes of liquid/gel lipgloss in my purse. I remembered it after we were already in the security line, so I just hoped for the best, figuring that, at worst, they would make me throw it away (something I didn't really want to do, since they cost me $12.00 each).

My purse breezed right thru the x-ray machine.

At the gate there was a woman eating an ice cream cone and they made her get rid of it before boarding, even though she had purchased it on the "secure" side. Not sure what was up with that. If she's eating it, then common sense would tell me that it's probably not an explosive. I started to tell her, "Hey, you should have bought it before you went thru x-ray, then stashed it in your purse," but I thought better of it.

LOL - Carlene, my point exactly...

I hadn't flown in a while last year, and totally spaced on some of the new security measures. I had one piece of luggage, and was carrying it on.

I had a small nail care set in my bag, which they pulled out after the xray machine. The nail clippers got to stay, but the little nail scissors weren't allowed. OOOOOH!!! I was so mad!

Frankly, anyone who could be intimidated by a pair of nail scissors deserves to be frightened.

Anyway, on the way back home I carried on board an empty wine-type bottle. NOT A PEEP.

Now, really - if you were given a choice of weapons, would you choose a little nail scissors, or a big heavy wine bottle that not only could be used to hit someone over the head with, but could be broken and used as a much longer, much sharper, much more damaging knife???

These are the kind of discrepancies that drive me crazy...

This should make you feel better (NOT). On September 4th I boarded a plane at Reagan International in Washington DC (always very tight security). I had 2 tubes of liquid/gel lipgloss in my purse. I remembered it after we were already in the security line, so I just hoped for the best, figuring that, at worst, they would make me throw it away (something I didn't really want to do, since they cost me $12.00 each).

My purse breezed right thru the x-ray machine.

At the gate there was a woman eating an ice cream cone and they made her get rid of it before boarding, even though she had purchased it on the "secure" side. Not sure what was up with that. If she's eating it, then common sense would tell me that it's probably not an explosive. I started to tell her, "Hey, you should have bought it before you went thru x-ray, then stashed it in your purse," but I thought better of it.

Ok, I need to set the record straight about the airline security situation. I am somewhat of an expert because I worked in airline maintenance as a mechanic or instructor for 35 years and because I used to teach mechanics how to fix the anti-terrorist equipment.

First and most scary IMHO is the fact that most of the people who are doing the screening now are the same people who did it before 911. When I worked at JFK, the screeners were paid from 1/3 to 1/2 of what I made, depending on which terminal they worked at. Most people who had marketable skills did not put in for screening jobs. Some of the screeners worked for and where paid by the airline that owned the terminal they worked in and some were paid by the NY Port Authority. The airline employed screeners usually got paid more. The airline that I worked for paid screeners a little more than the people who put the prepared food on the trays for delivery to the planes and a lot less than the people who put the baggage on the plane.

When I was laid off from my airline after 911, I eventually retired (to lock in medical benefits) and I tried to get a job as a TSA (branch of Home-Land Security) screener. The pay was a lot better and TSA claimed that the training would also be much better, but they gave people with experience first preference. Though I had used the machinery, including calibrating and repairing it, they did not deem me experienced enough to hire me. But they hired almost every pre-911 screener.

Another problem is the fatigue factor. You can not believe how mentally stressful and yet boring it is to look at those x-ray pictures of carry-on luggage and after a while the screeners who are supposed to scan your body for weapons become jaded. That is why they can not separate mentally the difference from a liquid smuggled past security with one that was purchased on the secure side of the check-in area.

We used to run simulated attempts to breach security. When they didn't know we were testing them we got through almost 90% of the time. When the FAA notified us that an attempt would be made on Friday, they still got through with a gun over 50% of the time. A report came out this month saying that screening has not improved. BuSh and Cheney keep reminding the US public that the BuSh administration's security policies must be working ok, because the USA has not been hit in 5 years (since 911). They forget that after the first attack on the WTC in February 1993, the USA was not hit under Bill Clinton for 7 years and 11 months and then for 8 months more under BuSh until 911. The reason we have not been hit may since 911 be more that Al-Quaida takes its time, than what we do to stop them.

Are we safe? Yes and no? Could we be safer? Much, much safer. IMO, If we had used half the money we spent in Iraq to protect our seaports, railroads, subways, Water supplies and chemical storage facilities, we would be a lot safer. IMO, Attacking Iraq was the best recruitment tool that the Muslim Fanatics who hate the USA ever had.

Will we ever be safe? Not as long as two groups of people pretend to fight in the name of a God (of peace), while violating everything that God and his Holy books stand for. Sorry I drifted off topic.

I would rebut but I'm pretty much a living disagreement so there's nothing to rebut. Erm...

I've heard it more times than I can count. "If you don't like it, leave." Uh, no. It has its flaws, but it is my home. I don't love everything about my house, but that doesn't mean it's on the market. After 9/11 I commented once on the false patriotism I saw everywhere. Not insinuating people didn't care and weren't hurt, but every house on every street was flying a flag, stores were selling out of everything they had in stock that happened to be red, white or blue. Be proud of your country if you have pride in it, but don't do it to be trendy. Don't do it because "you should". If you're proud enough to fly a flag today, why weren't you proud enough to fly one yesterday? Where are all those flags now?

I digress. I have been called "unpatriotic" and "unAmerican" because I've said I disagreed with our current president. Does anyone really believe that "love it or leave it" is the only answer? Apparently. Maybe I'm just misunderestimating him.

"As long as it isn't me" is the turn-your-cheek mentality that has allowed most of the evil things in our time to perpetuate. People think they're just 1 person, and what power does 1 person have? But everything we know to be good was, at some point, the result of just 1 person.

The face of a child can say a lot, especially the mouth part of the face.

I laugh everytime I red that, Wheetsin! LOL

I agree with all the sentiments expressed here, which is actually nice for a change, as it seems I am ever disagreeable lately... lol

It was so patriotic during Gulf War One (1991), right after 911 and also when the USA invaded Iraq in 2003 to fly those small (made in China) US flags from car antennas. It is a good thing that congress had not passed a constitutional amendment against flag desecration, because 60 MPH did a lot of damage to many of those Chinese/American flags and a lot of damage to car antennas.

During the first Gulf war, while I was stopped for a red light, I saw a car also stooped for the light across the intersection from me, with four 12 inch by 10 inch flags taped to the inside of its windshield. I said to a NYC PD officer who was in a car facing the same direction as my car, "why don't you give him a ticket for blocking his windshield?" The officer replied, "he is a patriot".

The other day, President BuSh while referring to General Colin Powell's letter about the attempt to change the interpretation of the Geneva Conventions said, "It is unacceptable to think..."

It really doesn't matter what the next words were. It is NEVER unacceptable to think. It is unacceptable to plot the overthrow of the US government by force. It is unacceptable to help the enemy plot or carry out attacks on the USA. It is unacceptable to finance the enemy, but it is never "unacceptable to think". And when the leader of the "Free World" will remove from anyone the "Freedom to think", then "We have met the enemy and the Enemy is US".

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Waging war in Iraq at this time is a terrible mistake, I believe, and this war will turn out to be this generation's Vietnam. The geo-political situation in the Middle East has been a mess since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It was then that the European powers, notably Britain, went in and carved the area up into what it is now its present countries. They did so ignoring traditional ethnic and religious alliances. Thus the tragedy of the Kurds in Iraq and thus the in-fighting between the Sunnis and the Shi'as. Then the establishment of Israel threw the area into further turmoil. Had Bush spent more time reading up on history and foreign policy and less time reading the Bible he and his cronies might have thought twice about blundering in and in so doing blowing trillions of taxpayer dollars, alienating the country from much of the international community, and squandering the Republican party's overall credibility. A little more attention to domestic affairs might have ensured that the aftermath of the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina was less grotesque.

I have read recently in the newspapers that he feels that God is helping him govern. It would be nice to see a few more competent and less corrupt advisors on board along with God for Bush's close association with big business is showing. Big business is not, you know, gonna get taxed for this very expensive war.

And now that the region is destabilized Iran is getting out of control and the problem of the on-going presence of Hezbollah in Lebanon has not been solved. They are still there. They are quiet at the moment is all.

I had been looking for that poem for years, but could not find it. :faint: