"I'm not doing anything wrong. I've got nothing to hide. Let the US government listen to my phone or monitor my e-mails. Let the US government do what they need to do."

I hear statements like that all the time, but if the US government was so efficient, so honest and so benevolent, then how would things like this happen?

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says "we seek to satisfy ourselves that they will not be tortured". Maybe you were satisfied, but I am not satisfied and I doubt Mr. Maher Arar and his family are satisfied either.

Sent to Syria? I thought Syria was our enemy. Is there something going on we should know about? If Mr. Arar was a terrorist, wouldn't the Syrians have treated him like a hero instead of torturing him?

Why send him to Jordan or Syria? Couldn't the USA have interrogated him? Couldn't the USA have interrogated him since they weren't going to break any laws by torturing him? Or did the USA figure that only torture could produce the results they needed? What better way to wash your hands of a human being's rights? The USA doesn't torture anyone!! Not US.

Next time you are so quick to give up your rights and the rights of others, think about these problems. I was going to say, "think about these mistakes", but the USA doesn't think it was a "mistake". Canada thinks it was a mistake, but Canada can't beat the USA in a war, so who cares what Canada thinks? Right Mr. Gonzales? Right Mr. BuSh?

More importantly, "Who cares what half of the American population thinks"? As long as enough Americans say, "I'm not doing anything wrong. I've got nothing to hide. Let the US government do what they need to do", then these things will keep happening. Mr. Arar's torture and the years taken from his life are a small price to pay. Right Mr. Gonzales? Right Mr. BuSh?

If only the US government knew what they were doing. If only the US public knew what they were condoning.

To a fault, I see both sides of the story, whether I want to or not. Yes, we were attacked and suffered tragic losses. Yes, their babies were crushed in the streets by tanks that had "Made in the USA" stamped on the side. I can understand why that would engender hostility.

It doesn't excuse, defend, or justify anything. It doesn't mean the punishment matched the crime. I lost family on 9/11. I watched the buildings fall at my desk, rendered completely speechless. I remember thinking, "Nothing will ever be the same again." Nothing I say is meant as an excuse, for any party. It means nothing other than we (a political nation) are never 100% innocent.

The officer replied, "he is a patriot".

Offenses that manage to fit inside the scope of the moral majority aren't offenses, they're testaments.

what does this all have to do with weight loss? discuss it somewhere else

I didn't lose family on 911, just friends. My daughter-in-law was injured more emotionally than physically when struck by debris as the second tower was hit.

But after 911, 80% of the world thought the attack despicable and was on the side of the USA. Recently in a poll, BuSh was voted the largest obstacle to peace over Osama Bin Laden. The rest of the world sees what BuSh is doing, but only 50% of the US public sees it.

BuSh said yesterday that the terrorists kill babies and innocent civilians to get their way. Yes, they do and they do it on purpose, but we kill 10 times as many babies and innocent civilians, and we call it collateral damage.

The USA discusses whether they should use air attacks or air and ground forces against Iran. The USA has floated suggestions about using a new nuclear tipped bunker buster missile to strike at Iran's nuclear facilities. Who made President George W. BuSh into King George or who made him into a deity?

Really nice to see this stuff up here. And nice to see another Keith Olberman fan out there, Tired_Old_Man. Glad to see so many poeple are as outrages and sickened that OUR President and country is now out there promoting torture. I can't believe this is where I grew up in some ways.

I don't think Americans have really changed their values, but maybe the TV reporting of what Americans think has. Not sure.

If you think you have all the answers and want to fix this country we live in, get off the computer and run for public office. Make a difference, don't just talk about it.

I don't think anyone said they have all the answers. That's why people discuss things - to formulate ideas, touch base, rant, rave, gripe, moan, educate themselves...

That's one of the great things about being able to think... Sharing those thoughts with others.

There is only so much room for public officers - there is not a public office job for every person that has an opinion. That's what voting is for.

Patriot definition, please?

I'm pretty sure that those who are standing around waving flags and yelling "Viva Bush no matter what!" think THEY are patriots and I'm the enemy appeaser. But I--opinionated, liberal, feminazi atheist that I am--walked out of work one day and enlisted in the Army.

So, who's the patriot?

Sue

PS--I enlisted to DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION...all I had to agree to do about the moron in the White House was agree to follow his (legal) orders.

Patriot definition, please?

PS--I enlisted to DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION...all I had to agree to do about the moron in the White House was agree to follow his (legal) orders.

I am sure that the German soldiers who followed Hitler's orders were patriots and the "French Resistance" were terrorists.

The orders are legal if your country wins the war, but they were illegal if your country surrenders.