Carb Debate (Friendly)

[Thomas CPA 496]

Starting a friendly discussion of Carbs because I read a lot of stuff on the board where people seem fearful of taking in carbs and I question Why?

First, I hear many people talking about taking in 6 grams of carbohydrates in Vitamins. Looking at all my vitamins there are no carbs listed because the numbers are in Miligrams not Grams. In other words, unless people are taking some sort of Gummy Vitamin, you really shouldn't be getting carbs. The worst I saw was people saying they are getting 6 grams which is still insignificant.

Second, based on what I see at various university health websites:

Carbohydrates are necessary to

Provide fuel for muscles

Support the central nervous system

Enable fat metabolism (burning off fat)

Prevent Protein from being used

The minimum recommended requirement I see is 130 grams/day and for athletes 250-1,000 grams/day depending on the activity. In fact you should take carbohydrates in before exercise as it is burned first and prevents protein from being taken from muscles.

Carbs by themselves are not going to make us fat, it will be lack of exercise and calories.

So my part of the debate to start off with is easy, eat carbs, our bodies need them for good health. Our bigger concern should be hollow calories (calories with low protein or calories with high trans fats) not carbohydrates.

[DoOver 17]

My "medical" carbs are in my Calcium chews. I take about 1/2 of my daily reqs in chews just because I like them. And in spite of not needing supplement with the sleeve, I feel like all I do is take pills so I like the break from Calcium by taking it in a lemon chew.

I agree with most of what you said. I am going to start the cycle routine, ultra low carb 1 day, healthy high carb the next. My place has very few dietary restriction on carbs and encourages their consumption.

I think that for most folks carbs are needed for health. But the devil is in the details and I think that's where it's easier for some people to just think carbs are "bad" instead of sorting the healthy carbs from the bad one. Because 75% of the time when I crave carbs, it's the bad ones I'm craving. I rarely crave a green bean.

[Tiffykins 672]

Some carbs are fine. I choose to NOT eat carbs, and stay below 30-40gr per day. NO biggie, I didn't need them for energy when I had over a 50% body fat measurement. Glycogen burning a lovely process for energy. Some people are carb sensitive, some people have medical issues that make them NOT lose weight with carbs. At least for me, during my losing stage, when I was focusing on hitting my Protein goal per day, and beating my own eating habits that got me fat, I simply did not have room for carbs so it's not a difficult process. I'm all for people doing what they need to do, but doing low carb isn't a horrible thing for a lot of people.

I look at like this "no one can deny my success doing it how I did it". I'm not telling everyone to do it this way, but it worked for me and hundreds of others. It helped beat some food demons as well. There is a lot more that goes into the equation of losing weight, keeping off, and being able to make some lifelong changes that will give a patient long term success other than just saying "don't worry about carbs". It's easy to not worry about carbs when restriction is at a max, when foods don't taste good, when life isn't happening, throw a combination of life happening, death, divorce, job loss, then toss in the fact that restriction and slider foods are easier to consume, and heaven forbid some hunger comes back, NOT worrying about carbs can lead to regain. There's several posts around that prove that point with topics of 40-60lbs of regain.

Not arguing, I eat carbs, I also know myself and my food issues, my eating Funyuns over a cheese stick, but I'm also well-aware of what happens when we just don't worry about stuff with my own regain story from last year's holiday season.

No debating here. It's futile at this point.

[minniekitty 44]

I'm curious to see all the different arguments on this. I'm on the fence about limiting my carbs. I obviously don't want to eat white and starchy carbs, but I'm unsure how to factor in fruits and vegetables. It would be nice to get most of my nutrients from food and not supplements. Of course, I also want to lose weight.

[Driver Deb 10]

I am pre op... Every time I cut out carbs, I stall. So I keep my carbs under 100g a day, about 30 to 35 g per meal.

[Tiffykins 672]

I'm curious to see all the different arguments on this. I'm on the fence about limiting my carbs. I obviously don't want to eat white and starchy carbs, but I'm unsure how to factor in fruits and vegetables. It would be nice to get most of my nutrients from food and not supplements. Of course, I also want to lose weight.

Honestly, I didn't have room for much of anything in the way of carbs be it bread/pasta or fruits/veggies if I wanted to get my Protein from food sources since I couldn't tolerate shakes.

I also didn't have the time nor the energy to worry about "net carbs" vs. "total carbs". If you don't have food triggers, then eating carby, sugar loaded fruits might not bother you, but I couldn't have raw fruits for 3 months post-op, and I'm not a fan of fruit to begin with.

It's really not a matter of me arguing, I just know my body. When I started adding in "healthy carbs", my losing stopped. When I started adding in more healthy fats, and healthy calorie dense foods, my losing stopped. I can drop weight like a champ low carbing it so that's what I rely to be the best indicator as to what works for my body.

Plus, I should throw out there that I was fairly sedentary during the first 4 months. I walked a bit, but nothing else, so I did NOT need more calories or carbs to support a huge calorie burn. There's a lot of factors that go into each individual's needs. I wanted to get to goal fast, and worry about maintenance when I got there. I knew what would work to take the weight off the fastest of previous diet attempts. I also knew justifying eating certain carbs was not changing my behaviors with foods. I did this whole "I'll eat XXX (on weight watchers) because I had the cheat points" well all that did was lead me down a path of justifying every poor choice, and then that "cheat meal" turned to a cheat day, and that threw me off. It's about my issues, and what I had to do to be successful. Others don't share those issues, others don't have to worry about fat habits, others can manage more carbs than others. Personally, I don't deprive myself in maintenance, I've learned what triggers me, I know regain sucks, heck I"ve gained 30lbs in the pregnancy. Yes, some of it is pregnancy weight, no doubt about it, and I'm right in the range they want me in considering I"m delivering in 3 weeks, BUT I've also had to add 300-400 more calories per day along with 100+ grams of carbs per day, and my ob wanted me to get in 100gr + of Protein per day, which most days I got that 100gr in but some days, I only hit 70-80 because I was low on carbs.

Women with PCOS or insulin resistance have difficulty losing weight, or stalling significantly even on restricted calories because of the carbs. So, for those who are plagued with one or both of those conditions, low carb is the best option. Even the reproductive endocrinologist wanted me to start low carb, induction of the Atkins diet 20 days before my appointment with him when we having trouble conceiving, even though I have never been diagnosed with PCOS or Insulin resistance, he said "you have a long history with obesity, you need to purge your system before you come in for the testing, let's get some baselines without all the dietary confusion" I popped positive on the pregnancy test and never had to pursue his assistance, but carbs can really effect many of us in several different ways.

[rubyspring 1]

One of the main reasons for low carb during the early stages of weight lose is to put the body into ketosis. After a couple of days of very low carbs (under 30-40 grams per day) "the brain starts burning ketones in order to more directly use the energy from the fat stores that are being depended upon, and to reserve the glucose only for its absolute needs, thus avoiding the depletion of the body's Protein store in the muscles". So as long as we have plenty of fat to burn, we are not in danger of harming our muscles. When you get close to goal and need to slow down/stop losing weight, that is the time to start adding more and more high Fiber (healthy) carbs. Doing "low carb" pre-op also helps suppress your appetite. Same post-op if you are still having trouble with appetite, though I, fortunately, don't.

[minniekitty 44]

Honestly, I didn't have room for much of anything in the way of carbs be it bread/pasta or fruits/veggies if I wanted to get my Protein from food sources since I couldn't tolerate shakes.

I also didn't have the time nor the energy to worry about "net carbs" vs. "total carbs". If you don't have food triggers, then eating carby, sugar loaded fruits might not bother you, but I couldn't have raw fruits for 3 months post-op, and I'm not a fan of fruit to begin with.

It's really not a matter of me arguing, I just know my body. When I started adding in "healthy carbs", my losing stopped. When I started adding in more healthy fats, and healthy calorie dense foods, my losing stopped. I can drop weight like a champ low carbing it so that's what I rely to be the best indicator as to what works for my body.

Plus, I should throw out there that I was fairly sedentary during the first 4 months. I walked a bit, but nothing else, so I did NOT need more calories or carbs to support a huge calorie burn. There's a lot of factors that go into each individual's needs. I wanted to get to goal fast, and worry about maintenance when I got there. I knew what would work to take the weight off the fastest of previous diet attempts. I also knew justifying eating certain carbs was not changing my behaviors with foods. I did this whole "I'll eat XXX (on weight watchers) because I had the cheat points" well all that did was lead me down a path of justifying every poor choice, and then that "cheat meal" turned to a cheat day, and that threw me off. It's about my issues, and what I had to do to be successful. Others don't share those issues, others don't have to worry about fat habits, others can manage more carbs than others. Personally, I don't deprive myself in maintenance, I've learned what triggers me, I know regain sucks, heck I"ve gained 30lbs in the pregnancy. Yes, some of it is pregnancy weight, no doubt about it, and I'm right in the range they want me in considering I"m delivering in 3 weeks, BUT I've also had to add 300-400 more calories per day along with 100+ grams of carbs per day, and my ob wanted me to get in 100gr + of Protein per day, which most days I got that 100gr in but some days, I only hit 70-80 because I was low on carbs.

Women with PCOS or insulin resistance have difficulty losing weight, or stalling significantly even on restricted calories because of the carbs. So, for those who are plagued with one or both of those conditions, low carb is the best option. Even the reproductive endocrinologist wanted me to start low carb, induction of the Atkins diet 20 days before my appointment with him when we having trouble conceiving, even though I have never been diagnosed with PCOS or Insulin resistance, he said "you have a long history with obesity, you need to purge your system before you come in for the testing, let's get some baselines without all the dietary confusion" I popped positive on the pregnancy test and never had to pursue his assistance, but carbs can really effect many of us in several different ways.

As far as I know, I don't have PCOS or an insulin resistance. My family does have a history of diabetes, though, so limiting/watching my carbs may not be a bad idea. I also need to get my protein from food because Protein Shakes are nasty to me. I can sometimes plug my nose and take it, but mostly I just avoid them.

I do know that with lower carb I tend to be less hungry and more satisfied with my meals. Before my surgery, I did 9 days of Atkins to shrink my liver and I ate significantly less

(1200-1600 calories per day) than I used to eat. I wasn't even trying to limit my calories, either. Of course, my limited food options may have factored into that. meat, cheese, and Greek yogurt. I just hope if I stick with low carb, I won't get bored with my diet.

[pcos_chick 23]

I have PCOS ... carbs just are not a good idea. I work to stay well under 100 grams of carbs a day.

In seven months I've lost over 120lbs. I was a heavy weight at 342 when I started my vsg journey.

Some folks don't have my issues with carbs. More power to them.

[Raine 170]

I mix it up a bit and maybe that is part of why I am a "slow loser" so to speak. I low carb it during the week no more than about 40 a day and on the weekend with my family, I don't count the carbs for the most part. That being said I like how I am losing now. I do try to work out at least 3 times a week and this is mostly on the weekends because of work so maybe that is why this system is working for me at the moment. I think everyones bodies are different and react to carbs and calories differently. I average between 1000 - 1200 calories a day and about 60-80 gr. Protein, but I always felt from the beginning that I could eat more than most people I read about too.

[Thomas CPA 496]

Some good discussions going on in a friendly manner.

[SouthernSleever 228]

When I eat carbs, I want more carbs. When I eat carbs I don't lose weight. It's as simple as that. If I look back at my ancestors they didn't eat a lot of carbs at all. If I want to eat carbs (this is my thoughts when I'm being good, I don't always do this) they should come from veggies or fruits.

[DreamLife36 6]

I'm really glad that I ran into this "friendly" discussion on carbs. I really didn't think (pre-surgery) that I would have to worry about this issue after being sleeved. I thought that the restriction would be enough. I realize that I still have to watch my carb intake and that I should probably consider limiting my carbs to 35-40 per day. I always get my Protein in, I use the whey Protein shakes from Wal-mart, 52gram's per serving, but I use 2 servings per day. So on average I get well over 140 grams of Protein per day. I don't know if this is good either, but I'm getting it in. I really don't eat bread or Pasta or rice.... I eat vegetables and sometimes fruit, apples are my favorite. The only thing i think Im lacking in is getting enough exercise. I had so much incision pain that exercise was out of the question for me. I will be in the gym next week though.

[lyndynojo 140]

I totally agree that we each know our own bodies best. Before surgery I never lost well on Atkins or Sugar busters or any of the low carb diets. I do best counting calories so that is what I do. I've lost 58 lbs since surgery on June 24th doing this and I don't feel deprived or like I'm cheating ever. I just started exercising this week to bump things up a little. I am certainly NOT advocating this but a college professor did a research project I think it was last year and ate nothing but junk food and limited his calories and still lost weight. Of course you want to be as healthy as possible so that is not even an option, but I am a firm believer in burn more calories than you eat and you will lose weight. Just my opinion.

[LilMissDiva Irene 3,280]

During my weight loss phase I did count carbs for the most part. I was one (still am) that exercised quite a bit so I allowed myself double what most everyone else seems to consume. I tried not to go over 60g total carbs per day. I wasn't always perfect and maybe it helped maybe it didn't. I lost on the stair step method where I'd lose weight for a few weeks, then stall for a few weeks. It's perfectly normal to do this, so I never really stressed on it.

Everyone's different and every one individual just needs to find the zone where they lose the most / fastest. IMO, there are no right or wrong answers. As long as it's working to its full effect, who cares what anyone else thinks about YOUR diet? Sometimes you have to play around with the numbers, and just when something is working - it will suddenly stop. Then you have to change it up some.

Low carbing it is not unhealthy. Some people have medical reasons to eat this way, such as my very own Mother. She is diabetic and she really has to watch all her carbs and sugars. Since working together on this she's been able to lose about 35 lbs. She was never able to do this before... so what's the right answer?

Good luck to all, and just remember - everyone's journey is their own. If you follow the basic WLS diet, which is consume your Protein first, then veggies and perhaps a few bites of carbs, you should be ok.