Rock Bottom

[Margaret 4]

I am soooooo sorry for you. My surgeon has NO pre-op diet whatsoever, just lie low the last couple of days on carbs. Hold your head up high, the worst is over, and press on with your good self!

Don't beat yourself up. I am going to say what no other person said...your surgeon in a CREEP!!! There is not hard fact evidence of the liver shrinking...NONE..Just a belief. My doctor doesn't even require a pre-op diet for this reason and he is a very cautious doctor. just no large meals 3 days before surgery.

I am sorry you had to go through this horrific experience. I can imagine the planning and mental preparation you had to go through. Don't beat yourself up, folloow the plans and get your surgery. I am speechless at your story.

[Beadingnurse 116]

:broken_heart: You WILL get there Heather and just think what a story this will be to tell later....you might even laugh about it (okay...probably not)! It feels heartbreaking now but in the big scheme of things it is just a bump in the road. I am grateful that you shared your sad tale with us because I start my low carb pre-op diet on 3/29 and this will help me tow the line. My surgeon has a reputation for canceling surgery too if the prep has not been done correctly. Your doctor probably did the right thing and I know I'd rather have a surgeon who is interested in minimizing complications and if they can do a better job with a smaller liver...it is our job to give it to them! Let us know what date you get your surgery rescheduled for so we can send you good vibes.

[rylie19805 1]

I have to wonder too...i guess every dr. is so different..i just met with my surgeon today for my surgery next tuesday..he didn't say anything about restricting any diet, lowering my carbs, not sure if he looked at the dietary notes from earlier and thought i was doing alright..but he heads the mayo clinic dept of bariatrics, so i know he's good at what he does...was your surgery laproscopic?..I'm so sorry though..i never would have been able to hold in the tears...i would bawl like a baby!! you will get there and get it done...just follow their directions this time...it's all about pleasing them at this point =( Although my dietician that i saw today was mean and NASTY...she said..now don't think about going out and having any "last meals" incinuating that i would go hoard and indulge food all week..because if you gain any weight the surgery will be off....she was also the same person that referred to my meals post op as feeding times like i'm an animal....good gracious some people are just bas**ds...dirty ones at that. Chin up girlfriend...

[2sweetnsugarland 9]

I'm so sorry Heather!! I'm sure everything will work out for the best. Thanks for the info about carbs, I didn't know that. Take care!!:girl_hug:

[Used2b575lbs 29]

Keep your head up! You will get there! We all make mistakes and many of us have struggled in getting to this point.

I was all set to have a bypass in 2003, my insurance changed

2003-2009 none of my insurance companies would approve bariatric surgery

I was all set to have a bypass in October 2009 I was too big for the CAT Scan at my local hospitals

I was approved for surgery March 2010 2 days after starting a new job with a mandatory 90 day waiting period

All this waiting and delays made me stronger they made me want it even more, you will get there and you will do great!

[pumpkin07 32]

I heard if you have to cheat on the liquid pre op to only cheat with Protein foods. I did this. Couple of beef patties, a few grilled chicken breasts, eggs. And Ididn't eat anything a few days before, just the liquids.

But heck, on the day of surgery they didn't weigh me at all believe it or not. I was wondering how much I weighed.

I can relate though. I am one of those people that tests every limit set. I have to learn things the hard way too for some reason. But at least I do learn.

[chilo1 62]

Don't beat yourself up. I am going to say what no other person said...your surgeon in a CREEP!!! There is not hard fact evidence of the liver shrinking...NONE..Just a belief. My doctor doesn't even require a pre-op diet for this reason and he is a very cautious doctor. just no large meals 3 days before surgery.

I am sorry you had to go through this horrific experience. I can imagine the planning and mental preparation you had to go through. Don't beat yourself up, folloow the plans and get your surgery. I am speechless at your story.

There are quite a lot of scientific articles out there showing that low calorie diets do help to reduce liver size and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, this is just one of them

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7MD3-516MRFT-1&_user=10&_coverDate=10%2F10%2F2010&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=acfe1f99e1ad2057721094f51b3ff310&searchtype=a

[swizzly 901]

There are quite a lot of scientific articles out there showing that low calorie diets do help to reduce liver size and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, this is just one of them

http://www.sciencedi...10&searchtype=a

Yes, true -- diet change is the primary line of treatment for actually diagnosed non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. However, in terms of treatment: gradual weight loss may improve the process in obese patients; rapid loss may worsen NAFLD. And just as with any obesity-related issue, not all obese people will have the problem. We read of so many people on the boards who were otherwise completely healthy, just overweight to some degree. Presuming that all fat people have a fatty liver is inherently prejudicial and not based on ANY EVIDENCE. Makes my effing head spin it does.

So this raises two questions for me: first, was the OPoster even diagnosed? Or just "presumed guilty" as it were, by the very crime of being obese? Did they run her liver enzymes and know she had NAFLD? Second: A two-week crash diet -- which is precisely what liquid diets or severely calorie/carb-restricted diets are -- is every bit as likely to worsen the problem, if it's present, or to have zero effect at all. It's more of a compliance hurdle IMO -- which is fine, but don't dress it up and call it something else. Using very thin (disingenuous) science as a rationale for kicking people who are already down (often, way down) is the worst kind of sadism IMO.

I think there are some seriously sadistic assholes working in the bariatric field -- some real fat-phobes. No kidding. I had such an outraged reaction to the OPoster's situation that I seriously will have to wait until later to do my BP check. I about stroked out reading that. What an irrational, asshole thing to do. Man of science? Neutral, objective god/surgeon? I think not. Punitive, petty, power-hungry, sadistic bastard, more like. Humiliate and shame her for gaining a couple of pounds or eating a few carbs?!? Does that seem like a reasonable reaction to ANYONE?? I'm completely outraged.

I respect the fact that you said you couldn't lie, Infernored -- but I have to say, given the circumstances and the utterly biased and unfair nature of the entire situation, I would have sat there and lied right through my teeth, with a smile on my face. What an asshole. I'm SO sorry you were treated like that. You didn't deserve it. Even if you ARE completely and intractably "addicted" to carbs (ie, like 90% of your fellow humans), you STILL don't deserve to be treated like that. Yes, now you'll have to play along and jump through a few more hoops, but I really hope you won't beat yourself up over this. Feeling shitty and down on yourself and like a failure is NOT the way to start this new journey. Hold your head up high, and stick to non-white carbs and Protein as long as it takes. And if you don't lose weight again the next time round? Please, just lie. You don't deserve this.

Hugs and good luck to you. (I'm going for a nice vigourous walk now, to try and calm down.)

[LilMissDiva Irene 3,281]

I don't think telling others to lie to medical staff is in anyone's best interest. If it's that awful, then seek a second opinion.

[Annis53 1]

IN SHEFFIELD WE HAVE TO DO 10 DAYS OF

3 PINTS OF SKIMMNED MILK

2 LOW FAT YOGHURTS

TEA ,COFFEE, DIET juice

NO food AT ALL

ITS VERY HARD WHEN YA HATE MILK , BUT HE SAID IF YA DON'T DO IT ,,,,,NO SURGERY ,,,,,,

I AM SORRY THEY TURNED YOU AWAY, BUT YOU WILL GET IT DONE NOW ,,,,,,,,

ANN :0)) xx

[mandems mom 3]

Heather you should be proud of yourself for telling the truth. In my own desperation for the surgery, I'm not sure that I would've done that...but then with my luck, I would've ended up on the operating table and either he wouldn't have completed the surgery or I would have been in very bad shape after. We all make mistakes and you (and we) are certainly learning from this one. Whether or not there is solid proof that the liver shrinks, each surgeon has their own rules based on their comfort zone with the surgery. To ensure every possible risk is lessened, we owe it to ourselves and our surgeon to follow his/her order's to the letter. Until I read your post, I didn't even realize the gravity of those instructions, but I now know that I will follow them exactly so that I don't suffer the same (or worse) fate as you. Best of luck to you....I'm sure your surgery will be rescheduled in no time!

[chilo1 62]

IN SHEFFIELD WE HAVE TO DO 10 DAYS OF

3 PINTS OF SKIMMNED MILK

2 LOW FAT YOGHURTS

TEA ,coffee, DIET juice

NO food AT ALL

ITS VERY HARD WHEN YA HATE MILK , BUT HE SAID IF YA DON'T DO IT ,,,,,NO SURGERY ,,,,,,

I AM SORRY THEY TURNED YOU AWAY, BUT YOU WILL GET IT DONE NOW ,,,,,,,,

ANN :0)) xx

Same here in Newcastle, exactly the same actually. I did it to the letter and only lost a couple of pounds though On the other hand my consultant said I had the most beautiful liver he had ever seen in his life, which is quite a compliment coming from a surgeon!

I didn't say if this surgeon was right or wrong in not doing the operation, just stating that the research is out there, and probably it's cheaper to just get all preops to do the diet instead of testing for enlarged liver, just my opinion though, no need to get hysterical over it.

[Infernored 5]

Wow! That is the most replies I've ever gotten on a topic! I know alot of people think my surgeon is a jerk, and even my hubby thinks so because I felt so bad about the situation yesterday, but I don't think so. He told me that he's been doing these surgeries for years and he travels to few different programs every year to see how they do things and some make you do a preop diet and some don't. He says in the ones who don't, the liver is so much bigger and harder to work around that it makes the procedure alot harder and increases the risks of complications. He said if he didn't care about me then he would do it, and maybe I'd need a bypass due to difficulties during surgery, or a leak that I'd be a greater risk for. He said he might take too much stomach off, or too little. He even stressed that even though I am big girl, I am tiny on the inside because my fat is "peripheral". He said I have a small frame even though I may have never seen it before. So, I agreed with him. And I'm a firm believer that everthing happens for a reason. I also am getting over a cold, and while I wasn't coughing yesterday in the hospital, when I came home I was coughing like crazy all day. I am going shopping today to stock up on no carb stuff, and I am going to keep busy until april 4 when I weigh in again. I'm planning on painting my bedroom and I start a new job next week. I know that when I learn, I learn the hard way. And so I have. I am glad some of the people hear have heard my story so they know not to follow in my mistakes. Thank you for all of your replies!

[LilMissDiva Irene 3,281]

Wow! That is the most replies I've ever gotten on a topic! I know alot of people think my surgeon is a jerk, and even my hubby thinks so because I felt so bad about the situation yesterday, but I don't think so. He told me that he's been doing these surgeries for years and he travels to few different programs every year to see how they do things and some make you do a preop diet and some don't. He says in the ones who don't, the liver is so much bigger and harder to work around that it makes the procedure alot harder and increases the risks of complications. He said if he didn't care about me then he would do it, and maybe I'd need a bypass due to difficulties during surgery, or a leak that I'd be a greater risk for. He said he might take too much stomach off, or too little. He even stressed that even though I am big girl, I am tiny on the inside because my fat is "peripheral". He said I have a small frame even though I may have never seen it before. So, I agreed with him. And I'm a firm believer that everthing happens for a reason. I also am getting over a cold, and while I wasn't coughing yesterday in the hospital, when I came home I was coughing like crazy all day. I am going shopping today to stock up on no carb stuff, and I am going to keep busy until april 4 when I weigh in again. I'm planning on painting my bedroom and I start a new job next week. I know that when I learn, I learn the hard way. And so I have. I am glad some of the people hear have heard my story so they know not to follow in my mistakes. Thank you for all of your replies!

I completely agree that your Surgeon really did/does have your best interest in mind. He wants to make sure you have as safe a surgery as he can help you with. He sounds like a real class act, and sticks to what he believes in. Some surgeons can just be "whichever way the wind blows" and do the surgery regardless. I don't think that is someone I would want operating on me...

With that, I do believe 100% that you are going to do excellent. I am also extremely proud that you were honest. Everything does happen for a reason, so now you can nurse your cold and prepare even more for your surgery.

Hang in there, April 4th is right around the corner. With sticking to your dietary guidelines, and adding doing some painting on top (that's tough work!!!) of that you will definitely get your surgery wish.

Hugs to you...

Thank you so much for bringing your story to light, it really is going to help so many!! That's what this forum is so wonderful for.

[chilo1 62]

Wow! That is the most replies I've ever gotten on a topic! I know alot of people think my surgeon is a jerk, and even my hubby thinks so because I felt so bad about the situation yesterday, but I don't think so. He told me that he's been doing these surgeries for years and he travels to few different programs every year to see how they do things and some make you do a preop diet and some don't. He says in the ones who don't, the liver is so much bigger and harder to work around that it makes the procedure alot harder and increases the risks of complications. He said if he didn't care about me then he would do it, and maybe I'd need a bypass due to difficulties during surgery, or a leak that I'd be a greater risk for. He said he might take too much stomach off, or too little. He even stressed that even though I am big girl, I am tiny on the inside because my fat is "peripheral". He said I have a small frame even though I may have never seen it before. So, I agreed with him. And I'm a firm believer that everthing happens for a reason. I also am getting over a cold, and while I wasn't coughing yesterday in the hospital, when I came home I was coughing like crazy all day. I am going shopping today to stock up on no carb stuff, and I am going to keep busy until april 4 when I weigh in again. I'm planning on painting my bedroom and I start a new job next week. I know that when I learn, I learn the hard way. And so I have. I am glad some of the people hear have heard my story so they know not to follow in my mistakes. Thank you for all of your replies!

Good luck to you, I didn't mean to give you bad vibes posting the studies that stae the liver thing. I too believe alot in things happening for a reason, and contrary to what a lot of people think i think doctors/surgeons have ouer best interests at heart as Dive said (maybe because my dad and husband are surgeons??)