So with the New Health Care Reform passed through the House. Who is for or against it?? Why or why not?

I am not in favor. My opinion (whether it's right or wrong) is why should we pay for the people who are too lazy to get a job just so they can have health insurance? Now it's different if they are disabled and unable to work. But these people who won't get off their butts to get a job shouldn't get subsidized health care that we, tax payers, are paying for!

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by TN_girl21

Well it isn't unconstitutional if it is done to ensure the rights that other Americans have to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Relevant word being "life." Same with car insurance, as I said before that someone pooh-poohed. When we learn through human behavior, that people need to have rules to protect themselves and others, we have seen fit to enact legislation or pass local laws to do it.

Helmet laws are similar and nut balls everywhere, who ride motorcycles without helmets are still up in arms about that one. Live free or die, eh? Well if your motorcycle slams into my SUV, and gets blood all my ride, that just ain't right. Duh, Bubba.

This phrase is NOT found in our Constitution. It was written in the Declaration of Independence. It is not your "constitutional" right.

When politicians lie they are usually trying to avoid political damage, or to make themselves look good. Bill Clinton lied (and got himself impeached) to save himself from embarrassment about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky. Hillary Clinton lied about being under fire in Bosnia to enhance her non-existent foreign affairs profile. Richard Nixon was forced from office because he lied to cover up his involvement in a political dirty trick. John Kerry lied about his Vietnam combat experience to blunt his anti-military reputation. But Barack Obama’s lies are far more corrosive and destructive, because they go the heart of legislation and governance, and so seriously undermine trust in government. His lies generally take a specific form: they attempt to persuade people to vote for him or his policies by categorically assuring them that they need not have the anxieties that they have been expressing. The lies say, essentially: trust me, support what I want, and I promise that what you fear will never happen. But in every case it soon becomes clear either that he knew perfectly well that what the public feared would in fact happen, or that he was giving a firm assurance that he was in no position to give, or that he had no intention of following through on his promise.

The accumulated weight of Obama’s deceit is overwhelming:

* During his campaign for the presidency and since, Obama repeatedly assured us that he would protect Medicare against cuts; but he now presses for passage of bills that include savage cuts in Medicare.

* To obtain passage of his first stimulus bill, Obama assured us that 90% of the jobs created would be in the private sector; but as he well knew, most of them were to be in the public sector.

* Early in the health care debate, Obama assured us that he had not said that he favored a single payer system; but he was on record as having said exactly that.

* Obama gave primary voters a firm assurance that if he became the nominee of the Democratic party he would (unlike Hillary Clinton) abide by the campaign finance limits of public funding; but as soon as he became the party’s nominee, he reneged on that pledge.

* During the presidential campaign Obama criticized the presence of former lobbyists in the Bush administration and solemnly assured us that he would appoint no lobbyists to his administration; but once elected he proceeded to appoint even more lobbyists than his predecessors.

* Obama criticized the size of George Bush’s deficit and promised to stop deficit spending if elected; but he has already quadrupled the size of the deficit he objected to and recklessly continues new federal spending in the trillions.

* When campaigning Obama criticized bills before the congress that were too long for anyone to be able to read and promised to stop that; but the bills he has been backing throughout his first year are infinitely longer (2000+ pages) than the ones he criticized.

* Candidate Obama promised an end to the corruption of earmarks and pork, but in the bills he has supported this year there have been more and bigger earmarks than ever before.

* Candidate Obama promised us that CIA personnel involved in the interrogation of terrorists would not be prosecuted; but his administration is now doing exactly that.

* Obama assured a joint session of Congress that the health bill he supported (pre-Stupak) would not provide public funding for abortions; but bitter resistance on the part of House Democrats to inclusion of language to that effect soon proved that it did.

* Candidate Obama promised that he would make sure that there was always enough time for the public to read legislation before it was enacted; but he has done exactly the opposite, repeatedly pressing for even faster passage of even longer bills.

* Candidate Obama met fears that he would be a tax and spend liberal by promising, emphatically and repeatedly, that those earning under $200,000 would see no increase in their taxes of any kind; but he now urges passage of a healthcare bill that breaks that pledge in many different ways, and his unrestrained increase in federal spending makes more tax increases inevitable.

* Candidate Obama promised bipartisanship and an end to partisan bickering; but in a display of especially ruthless partisanship his allies have shut Republicans out of all key meetings on his health care initiative, with the unprecedented result that domestic legislation of historic importance garnered not a single Republican vote in the Senate.

* Candidate Obama criticized his opponent’s plan to tax employer paid healthcare benefits, and promised he would not tax them; but the bill he now backs will do just that.

* Obama had promised that he would not sign a healthcare bill that would add one dime to the federal deficit; but the bill he now backs adds trillions in new federal spending, offset only by new sources of revenue that are both uncertain and more properly seen as offsetting the already existing deficit.

* Obama coerced congress into passing his stimulus bill by promising that if it were passed unemployment could go no higher then 8%; but unemployment is now at 10%, and he could not possibly have had good reason to exclude that possibility.

* Obama promised that his cap and trade legislation will create jobs; but its massive tax increases will certainly hobble the economy and destroy jobs, while green jobs in significant numbers can at best be hoped for, but never promised.

* Obama has repeatedly assured the American people that if they like their current health plan they can keep it; but the House bill which he supported created huge incentives for employers to drop their coverage and shift their members to a public option.

* Obama has just as often assured the public that under his health plan everyone will be able to keep their current doctor; but many are certain to lose their doctors when ObamaCare’s large cuts in Medicare funding induce more doctors to withdraw from Medicare coverage, as they also would were employers to transfer patients to a public option to save money.

* Obama assured a joint session of Congress that his health plan would not fund illegal aliens; but his allies had been busy voting down amendments to that effect. (This was the point of Joe Wilson’s outburst.)

* Obama claimed that Caterpillar’s CEO had told him that Caterpillar would begin hiring again as a result of the stimulus bill; but that individual immediately announced that he had said no such thing, and that Caterpillar would in fact be laying off more workers.

* Candidate Obama promised that Guantanamo would be closed by January 1, 2010; but it is still open.

* Candidate Obama promised that his administration (unlike his predecessor’s) would be so transparent that TV cameras (C-Span) would be there for key deliberations; but an unprecedented level of secrecy prevails as the final stages of Obamacare are negotiated behind closed doors and kept so secret that even the Senate majority whip admitted that he had no idea what was going on. Requests for Obama to honor the promise of C-Span cameras are being ignored.

* To gain traction for his attempt to return a would-be socialist dictator in Honduras to power, Obama claimed that he had been overthrown in an illegal coup; but the congressional research service pointed out correctly that ex-President Zelaya had been removed for constitutionally sufficient cause by legal and constitutional means.

* Obama claims that he wants a public option only to increase choice and competition; but the House bill would clearly reduce choice both by squeezing unsubsidized private health plans out of the market, and by setting rigid conditions on acceptable plans that would narrow available options.

* Candidate Obama claimed that violent radical Bill Ayers was just another guy in his neighborhood; but the record shows that the two had worked closely together.

* Obama assured us that his stimulus bill would create or save a million jobs; but he was claiming as fact what could never have been more than a wild (and highly improbable) guess, and his more recent attempts to justify that guess have been fraudulent.

* Obama assured us that his health plan would never ration care, or “pull the plug” on grandma; but the legislation he backs sets up panels to make crucial decisions on when to withhold care, and it makes such deep cuts in Medicare that rationing is inevitable.

* Obama now assures us that health insurance premiums will not go up if ObamaCare becomes law, insisting indignantly that people who say this have not read the bill; but the legislation forces insurers to cover preexisting conditions, which will compel them to raise premiums substantially.

This is an extraordinary record of serial mendacity. One or two instances might charitably be regarded as rash promises later regretted, or as the wishful thinking of someone who had not thought through the implications of what he was saying. But when it happens again and again—and my 30 instances are by no means exhaustive—only one judgment seems possible: this is the record of a habitual, shameless liar, a man who will say anything to get what he wants. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, goes the old saying. But scores of times? How shameful is that for our society when this disgraceful record is never the subject of a reproachful editorial in the New York Times, the Washington Post, or CBS news? Richard Nixon was removed from office, and Bill Clinton impeached for a single lie. Who could look at Obama’s record without concluding that his lying is in a completely different league to theirs?

President Obama evidently believes that he can solve any problem with a speech. But he really does not care whether what he says is true or not, nor does he feel any responsibility to honor the assurances and promises he makes. As a result, this nation is now in a position where it cannot believe a word that he says, and that amounts to an unprecedented crisis of confidence in the Presidency. Democratic government will atrophy if we allow lying on this scale to count as the business as usual of politics. When will the press and the Congress hold him accountable? John Ellis

To liberals, actually pointing out when they're lying through their teeth is considered to be dirty politics and, in the case of the Obama Administration, perhaps racist, too. Still, despite the risk of infuriating Barack Obama's dwindling number of supporters, someone needs to point out that he may already be able to challenge Bill Clinton for the title of the biggest liar ever to occupy the White House.

Of course, since I'm a partisan conservative, I don't expect everyone to just take my word for it. So, what I'm going to do is show you some quotations so that you can make your own decision about whether the Obama Administration has been truthful or not. Just read through these quotes, which only represent a small portion of the ones I could have selected, and ask yourself if the American people can take our President at his word.

1) "One year from now, we have the chance to tell all those corporate lobbyists that the days of them setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race - and I've won. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am president, they won't find a job in my White House." --

Barack Obama

, November 3, 2007

"President Obama promised during his campaign that lobbyists "won't find a job in my White House."

So far, though, at least a dozen former lobbyists have found top jobs in his administration, according to an analysis done by Republican sources and corroborated by Politico." --

Politico

, January 29, 2009

2) "If you make under $250,000, you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime - not your income taxes, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, nothing," Obama said last week. "Because the last thing we should do in this economy is raise taxes on the middle class." --

CNN

, November 3, 2008

"One of President Barack Obama's campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday.

The largest increase in tobacco taxes took effect despite Obama's promise not to raise taxes of any kind on families earning under $250,000 or individuals under $200,000.

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich." --

Breitbart

, April 1, 2009

"Wavering on an emphatic promise he made in the spring, top White House economic adviser Lawrence H. Summers would not rule out middle-class tax increases Sunday as a way for the Obama administration to pay for a sweeping health care plan.

The statement, which was echoed by Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner on Sunday's talk shows, pries open a door to the kinds of broad tax increases that Mr. Obama opposed in his campaign and that he and his advisers have ruled out since taking office in January." --

Washington Times

, August 3, 2009

3) "As Justice Louis Brandeis once said, sunlight is the greatest disinfectant. The more people know about how federal laws, rules and regulations are made, and who's making them, the less likely it is that critical decisions will be hijacked by lobbyists and special interests.

I think the current administration knows that, too, which is why it's been the most defiantly secretive government in modern times.

It's time to change that.

When there is a bill that ends up on my desk as President, you will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it." --

Barack Obama

, June 22, 2007

During the presidential campaign, Barack Obama promised that once a bill was passed by Congress, the White House would post it online for five days before he signed it.

...When he took office in January, his team added that in posting nonemergency bills, it would “allow the public to review and comment” before Mr. Obama signed them.

Five months into his administration, Mr. Obama has signed two dozen bills, but he has almost never waited five days. On the recent credit card legislation, which included a controversial measure to allow guns in national parks, he waited just two. --

New York Times

, June 22, 2009

4) "During the presidential campaign, Barack Obama said several times that he intended to negotiate health care reform publicly. In fact, he said, he'd televise the negotiations on C-SPAN, with all the parties sitting at a big table. That way, Americans would be more engaged in the process and insist on real change.

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are, because part of what we have to do is enlist the American people in this process," Obama said at a debate in Los Angeles on Jan. 31, 2008." -

"The notion of televising negotiations behind a health care revamp was so central to Obama's campaign promises of change and openness, however, that it became part of his stump speech as he traveled the country in 2007 and 2008.

He'd describe how televised deliberations would take place around a big table, with seats filled by doctors, nurses, insurers and other interested parties. As president, he'd joke, he'd get the biggest chair.

"Not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN," Obama explained in a Democratic debate in Los Angeles in January 2008, in language similar to many of his campaign stops.

However, the two biggest deals so far — industry agreements to cut drug and hospital costs — were reached in secret." --

McClatchy

, July 9, 2010

5) "President Barack Obama Saturday proposed an additional $313 billion in cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and other programs to pay for health care reforms expected to cost about $1 trillion over the next decade.

...About $110 billion of the new cuts would come from reducing scheduled increases in Medicare payments. That would encourage health care providers to increase productivity, White House budget director Peter Orszag told reporters.

...Altogether, the Obama administration is now asking Congress to trim spending on Medicare and Medicaid by more than $600 billion over the next decade, which is more than some Democrats are willing to swallow." --

CNN

, June 13, 2009

"Let me also address I think a misperception that’s been out there that somehow there is any discussion on Capitol Hill about reducing Medicare benefits. Nobody is talking about reducing Medicare benefits. Medicare benefits are there because people contributed into a system. It works. We don’t want to change it." --

, July 28, 2009

6) "That's why we submitted the robust budget we submitted. And, of course, we also came forward with what we're going to talk about today, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, an initial big jolt to give the economy a real head start." --

Joe Biden

, June 2, 2009

"The care with which we are carrying out the provisions of the Recovery Act has led some people to ask whether we are moving too slowly. But the act was intended to provide steady support for our economy over an extended period — not a jolt that would last only a few months." --

Joe Biden

, July 26, 2009

7) By a vote of 244-188 Wednesday, the House of Representatives passed an $819 billion bill aimed at stimulating the economy and tempering a spate of layoffs across the country.

Says President Obama, the bill's lobbyist-in-chief: "Most of the money we're investing as part of this plan will get out the door immediately and go directly to job-creation, generating or saving 3 to 4 million new jobs." --

Forbes

, January 28, 2009

In Saturday’s address, Obama also responds to critics who believe the $787 billion bill is not sufficient to turn around the economy and who are, therefore, pushing for another stimulus package.

“[A]s I made clear at the time it was passed, the Recovery Act was not designed to work in four months – it was designed to work over two years." --

CNN

, July 11, 2009

As you can see, He's a big fat deciever and liar!!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA: "Because of the steps we took, there are about 2 million Americans working right now who would otherwise be unemployed. ... And we are on track to add another one and a half million jobs to this total by the end of the year."

THE FACTS: The success of the Obama-pushed economic stimulus that Congress approved early last year has been an ongoing point of contention. In December, the administration reported that recipients of direct assistance from the government created or saved about 650,000 jobs. The number was based on self-reporting by recipients and some of the calculations were shown to be in error.

• WASHINGTON – The nation added jobs at the fastest pace in three years last month as factories, stores, hospitals and the census all brought workers on board — the surest sign yet that the worst employment market in a generation has finally snapped back.
  

The unemployment rate stayed at 9.7 percent for the third month in a row, the Labor Department said Friday. Economists actually consider that a hopeful sign because it means more people are encouraged and starting to look for work.

"This recovery is for real," said Chris Rupkey, economist at the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi.

Overall, the economy added 162,000 jobs for the month. About a third of the gains came from the census, with much more to come: About 700,000 head-counters will be hired to tally the nation's population this spring.

Economists took heart that even aside from the population count, the private sector added 123,000 jobs for the month, the most since May 2007.

Because of his foresight and willingness to tackle tough, unpopular problems, Pres. Obama is helping to turn this economy around.

• WASHINGTON – The nation added jobs at the fastest pace in three years last month as factories, stores, hospitals and the census all brought workers on board — the surest sign yet that the worst employment market in a generation has finally snapped back.
  

The unemployment rate stayed at 9.7 percent for the third month in a row, the Labor Department said Friday. Economists actually consider that a hopeful sign because it means more people are encouraged and starting to look for work.

"This recovery is for real," said Chris Rupkey, economist at the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi.

Overall, the economy added 162,000 jobs for the month. About a third of the gains came from the census, with much more to come: About 700,000 head-counters will be hired to tally the nation's population this spring.

Economists took heart that even aside from the population count, the private sector added 123,000 jobs for the month, the most since May 2007.

Because of his foresight and willingness to tackle tough, unpopular problems, Pres. Obama is helping to turn this economy around.

1/3 are government temporary jobs and 1/3 or so are Census hires that are temporary. They end in a month or so, then we're right back to unemployment. The only jobs that count are private secter permanent jobs.

from bureau of labor statistics

To anyone unemployed, a job is a job is a job. Whether it is part time, temporary, with the government or private sector.

Who says that only permanent jobs in the private sector count? :thumbup:

Ask an unemployed person if they care where their next job comes from. And 17,000 of those jobs were in manufacturing. People making things.

And when did we start to see a change from increasing job losses to decreasing job losses to job gains? That would be after Pres. Obama was elected.

Edited April 3, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

My goodness Patty. That is quite possibly those most ignorant one sided view of history I’ve ever heard. First let me clarify one thing from my perspective... I am not on the retributions bandwagon, what’s done is done – we can’t fix it now. I’m not advocating all non natives leave this land, nor do think we should be handing out 40 acres and a mule. I do however firmly believe we should recognize that the way we built this country was by destroying and forcefully removing the natives and on the backs of slave labor from Africa. Instead of trumpeting how wonderful our forefathers were, we should learn from the parts of history that are less heralded. Rather than paying retributions we should be striving for a more equal society for our non-white brothers and sisters.

WELL SAID, KARTMAN! :thumbup:

Who is John Ellis, quoted in post 1143? Where was it published originally?

patty: "1/3 are government temporary jobs and 1/3 or so are Census hires that are temporary. They end in a month or so, then we're right back to unemployment. The only jobs that count are private secter permanent jobs."

What? Back to unemployment? That would presume that the 9.7% unemployment rate right now doesn't represent unemployed people. Makes no sense.

Good post, Cleo's

• WASHINGTON – The nation added jobs at the fastest pace in three years last month as factories, stores, hospitals and the census all brought workers on board — the surest sign yet that the worst employment market in a generation has finally snapped back.
  

The unemployment rate stayed at 9.7 percent for the third month in a row, the Labor Department said Friday. Economists actually consider that a hopeful sign because it means more people are encouraged and starting to look for work.

"This recovery is for real," said Chris Rupkey, economist at the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi.

Overall, the economy added 162,000 jobs for the month. About a third of the gains came from the census, with much more to come: About 700,000 head-counters will be hired to tally the nation's population this spring.

Economists took heart that even aside from the population count, the private sector added 123,000 jobs for the month, the most since May 2007.

Because of his foresight and willingness to tackle tough, unpopular problems, Pres. Obama is helping to turn this economy around.

The growth wasn't robust enough to lower the unemployment rate, which was unchanged at 9.7%.

Those jobs will disappear beginning in the third quarter as the Census is completed.

An estimated 3 million workers quit searching for jobs altogether during the downturn.

The current 9.7% unemployment figure is, at best, misleading. It only counts a portion of the unemployed – those still receiving benefits. If you include discouraged workers, part-time or temporary workers who are underemployed, and a number of other unemployed segments of the population, the true percentage of jobless Americans is closer to 20-22%.

As you can see, He's a big fat deciever and liar!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patty, Since you waited until late in the day to post your response, you will have to wait until tomorrow for mine. You know I find it odd that someone on a bariatric website calls anyone a "big, fat" anything.

The growth wasn't robust enough to lower the unemployment rate, which was unchanged at 9.7%.

Those jobs will disappear beginning in the third quarter as the Census is completed.

An estimated 3 million workers quit searching for jobs altogether during the downturn.

The current 9.7% unemployment figure is, at best, misleading. It only counts a portion of the unemployed – those still receiving benefits. If you include discouraged workers, part-time or temporary workers who are underemployed, and a number of other unemployed segments of the population, the true percentage of jobless Americans is closer to 20-22%.

If the unemployment goes up, you and all the others on the right (Mr. Coppertone Boehner, sour grapes mccain, etc) will sure be quoting it as gospel.

Well, we should have known it wouldn't take long for the hypocritical republicans who bashed the stimulus and then took credit for it to their constituents to take credit for the healthcare bill that they ALL voted against.

HIR the Next Stimulus for the GOP?

Wed Mar 24, 2010 at 06:30:05 PM PDT

This is a hoot: Chuck Grassley, Mr. Death Panels, is now touting HIR.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) has long been a vocal critic of the Democrat's health reform efforts, but today he started taking credit for some provisions of the bill, and talking up his own role in crafting the legislation.

In a release sent out by his staff to reporters today, Grassley says the bill will "hold tax-exempt hospitals accountable for the federal tax benefits they receive" thanks to his work.

It's the stimulus all over again: Republicans fighting for all their worth to prevent governance, and then claiming credit for it when it passes despite their steadfast, and screaming, opposition.

Dems are ready, this time. The DSCC:

"Chuck Grassley has been in Washington for too long if he thinks Iowans did not notice his strenuous, strident, and spirited opposition to health care reform," DSCC spokesperson Eric Schultz said in a statement. "This is someone who did everything he could to stop the bill, but now thinks it is worth touting."

....

"Either he is a total hypocrite or he has taken March Madness to a whole new level," Schultz said in the DSCC statement today.

Republicans are obviously in a bit of tizzy, trying to figure out precisely how to respond to this setback. Some of them want full repeal, some of them maybe partial repeal and some of them, apparently, civil war. Taking credit for reform, however, would be about as blatantly hypocritical in grand Republican tradition as they could get. So kudos, I guess, for Grassley being willing to go there.

• from dailykos