So with the New Health Care Reform passed through the House. Who is for or against it?? Why or why not?

I am not in favor. My opinion (whether it's right or wrong) is why should we pay for the people who are too lazy to get a job just so they can have health insurance? Now it's different if they are disabled and unable to work. But these people who won't get off their butts to get a job shouldn't get subsidized health care that we, tax payers, are paying for!

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by TN_girl21

ariscus: said when speaking of what George W. Bush did for him: "Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks."

Yeah, you personally didn't die in a terrorist attack. And Dubya personally saw to that. Brilliant!

Because if you think that invading Iraq saved you from terrorist attacks, you're wrong again. The terrorists have become stronger and better funded because of that war. That invasion - shock and awe - as Georgie called it, was a huge mistake and of course, we will pay the price for it. In fact, the humongous debt we have is due in large part to that war.

Now what is more important to you, no new taxes or paying off the debt we already have for a war we should never have waged? That your hero, Geo Bush, got us into.

And you say that you pay 50% in income tax on a combined salary of $200,000? Dude, you're doing something really wrong. Or perhaps when I scanned your post I didn't understand what you were saying.

As for comparing me with Cleo'smom, what a compliment!! Thank you so much. I don't deserve it, but if I in any way can be compared to her, I am humbled and feel a strong sense of pride at the suggestion.

And I'm sure that you and patty have such a similar mutual admiration thing going on, eh?

ariscus, thanks for bringing my words back to light for all to see. I appreciate it. They are brilliant enough to show again, I agree. :-)

And as for your friend's words, who's surprised that he doesn't want to be a doctor with the health care system that we've had. Doctors haven't been given a fair shake by the insurance companies either. They have their decisions monitored by insurance companies, who have wedged themselves between the patient and doctor. They have a tremendous amount of paperwork that they have to deal with because of insurance companies.

And as my doctor said... several years ago, the U.S. is no longer able to recruit the best and brightest young Americans to become doctors. Now we have thousands of doctors who have been schooled in foreign countries, who have English as a second language and there wasn't been any promise of it turning around during the Bush administration. In fact, year by year it got worse!

You hear what you want to hear. We all do of course, but you really need to stop jumping to conclusions when you read something bad. Stop assuming that it is because of this president that bad things have happened. We haven't been recruiting the best and brightest for medicine long before President Obama was elected and took office.

You all are trying to re-write history but too many of us know the truth. We freakin' had to live through that crap that your guy brought down on our shoulders.

This is a losing argument on both sides. You're blinded by the light and I am tired of your same lame, inane line of thinking.

Why don't you stop trying to debate me and I'll do you the same favor.

...................................

Edited March 23, 201016 yr by LilMissDiva
Nevermind, not worth it.

Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks.

Really? This is an example of selective memory that I have been referring to with conservatives.

So here I am to remind you:

9/11 HAPPENED UNDER BUSH'S WATCH. HOW DID HE PROTECT THOSE 3000 PEOPLE WHO DIED OR THIS COUNTRY FROM A TERRORIST ATTACK?

ANYONE CAN CLOSE THE BARN DOOR ONCE MOST OF THE HORSES GOT OUT AND SAY, SEE NO HORSES HAVE GOTTEN OUT UNDER MY WATCH

Really? This is an example of selective memory that I have been referring to with conservatives.

So here I am to remind you:

9/11 HAPPENED UNDER BUSH'S WATCH. HOW DID HE PROTECT THOSE 3000 PEOPLE WHO DIED OR THIS COUNTRY FROM A TERRORIST ATTACK?ANYONE CAN CLOSE THE BARN DOOR ONCE MOST OF THE HORSES GOT OUT AND SAY, SEE NO HORSES HAVE GOTTEN OUT UNDER MY WATCH[/color][/b]

And this is a perfect example of selective reading. What did I say in the passage that you quoted? Here let me refresh your memory; verbatim: Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks. Now unless I've missed where I said 9/11 happened under someone else's watch.....

ariscus, thanks for bringing my words back to light for all to see. I appreciate it. They are brilliant enough to show again, I agree. :-)

And as for your friend's words, who's surprised that he doesn't want to be a doctor with the health care system that we've had. Doctors haven't been given a fair shake by the insurance companies either. They have their decisions monitored by insurance companies, who have wedged themselves between the patient and doctor. They have a tremendous amount of paperwork that they have to deal with because of insurance companies.

And as my doctor said... several years ago, the U.S. is no longer able to recruit the best and brightest young Americans to become doctors. Now we have thousands of doctors who have been schooled in foreign countries, who have English as a second language and there wasn't been any promise of it turning around during the Bush administration. In fact, year by year it got worse!

You hear what you want to hear. We all do of course, but you really need to stop jumping to conclusions when you read something bad. Stop assuming that it is because of this president that bad things have happened. We haven't been recruiting the best and brightest for medicine long before President Obama was elected and took office.

You all are trying to re-write history but too many of us know the truth. We freakin' had to live through that crap that your guy brought down on our shoulders.

First, when and where did I say Bush was my guy? And where do you get this idea, that I think he is great? Show me something somewhere, that says or implies I think Bush was great. Ask me a simple question like "hey did you vote for Bush?" Why no BJ I didn't.

And what my friend was talking about and was very clear about in that message was that with the (coming, as this was sent to me before he bill passed)passage of obamacare and the new taxes, he will now, make these changes, not because of how the medical field has been in the past, because of how it and the taxes will be in the future. The people he knows that have veered away from becoming physicians, according to him, have done so, because of fear of what this bill will do to the medical field. Again, not because of how it was before, but because of what it will become. Whether he and the people he knows are right or wrong about the bill, that is why their decisions were made. I have two other very close friends from high school that dropped out of med school in this what would have been their 3rd year, and have switched tracks to become lawyers. For; according to them, the same reason, the medical field is about to become a wasteland.

Edited March 23, 201016 yr by ariscus99

missdiva, I agree with you, but to think that doctors are still called to medicine to help people is probably folly. Nearly everybody in America seems to want nothing more than to be wealthy and own more and bigger luxury merchandise. If someone who was thinking of going into medicine can't get the kind of wealth they want, it's no big deal to make a change and do something else that will.

With that kind of greed-driven mindset, it's no wonder that all we hear from those folks has to do with what they are expected to pay to keep our government strong. They expect everybody else to take care of their needs - roads, bridges, police, firemen, their ailing grandparents... but oh no, they sure don't want any of their salary going to the government. The government is the boogy man. The goverment in America is socialism.

Only problem with that is they NEED what the government takes care of, but they don't think that THEY personally should be required to pay for those things. They want to keep every red cent they earn in wages. And for a long time, most rich people did keep most of what they earned.

But now that a more honest, fairer adinistration is in place, they're feeling very threatened! And they should. They've been able to build their portfolios on the backs of hard working middle class Americans.

How do I know this you might ask? Because my portfolio grew by leaps and bounds when there were more and more loop holes for the rich. And now it's time to pay the piper. I am more than willing to do my part and always was, but Georgie boy and his cronies saw to it that I didn't have to. I am glad they're gone and I hope that November (the threat that ariscus made) doesn't bring out a bunch of voters with short term memory loss, because if they do elect a majority of Republicans to Congress, as a country we are really in for it!

From a friend of mine finishing up his residency

How Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes

By CATHERINE RAMPELL Not full article, see complete article hereHow Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com Fortunately, the Congressional Budget Office recently released updated data on effective average federal tax rates — that is, the percentage of their entire incomes that Americans hand over to the federal government in the form of personal income, social insurance, corporate income and excise taxes. As this is effective tax data, it also takes into account the fact that many Americans use deductions that make their taxes lower than statutory rates would imply.

$140K= 4th quintile effective tax rate is 17.5%

$248,400= 5th quantile effective tax rate is 25.8%

(for ease of example I am going to round the second amount to $250K, I hope you don't mind)

$140K X .175 = $24,500 taxes leaves after taxes $115,500

$250K X .258 = $64,500 taxes leaves after taxes $185,500

So he wants to leave $70K after tax dollars (per year) on the table just because he has to pay extra taxes? (By the way, 5.4% are corporate taxes that he wont have to pay if he is not self employed. The numbers I use above are worst case scenario.)

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc10068/effective_tax_rates_2006.pdf

ariscus "medical wasteland"? You're a stitch! At this point I just have to laugh.

Yeah, I thought George was your boy. You speak in Bushisms. The thoughts you post are line by line what the Bushyheads have fed you. If you didn't vote for him it's probably because you didn't vote. But I don't expect you to admit that. Or you brilliantly voted Independent, which was a non-vote in its' own way.

But the fact that you are so consumed with taxes and big government and you're vocal about it NOW and not when Bush was in office should really tell you something. It tells me a lot.

Once again Leisha, you pop up with relevant information. Thanks.

How Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes

By CATHERINE RAMPELL Not full article, see complete article hereHow Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com Fortunately, the Congressional Budget Office recently released updated data on effective average federal tax rates — that is, the percentage of their entire incomes that Americans hand over to the federal government in the form of personal income, social insurance, corporate income and excise taxes. As this is effective tax data, it also takes into account the fact that many Americans use deductions that make their taxes lower than statutory rates would imply.

$140K= 4th quintile effective tax rate is 17.5%

$248,400= 5th quantile effective tax rate is 25.8%

(for ease of example I am going to round the second amount to $250K, I hope you don't mind)

$140K X .175 = $24,500 taxes leaves after taxes $115,500

$250K X .258 = $64,500 taxes leaves after taxes $185,500

So he wants to leave $70K after tax dollars (per year) on the table just because he has to pay extra taxes? (By the way, 5.4% are corporate taxes that he wont have to pay if he is not self employed. The numbers I use above are worst case scenario.)

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc10068/effective_tax_rates_2006.pdf

Feel free to factor in state taxes as well, we are trying to be honest here aren't we?

Texas doesn't have "state taxes", we pay "property taxes" based on the value of our property.

Edited March 23, 201016 yr by LeighaMason
changed your to our

Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks.

Really?

That is an incredibly myopic and ignorant view of history. The unjustified and unnecessary war in Iraq created more terrorists than any recruiting drive Al-Qaida could have conceived of. The war in Iraq also created a tremendous opportunity for Iran to become the nemesis they are today. The illegal torture techniques, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo (Cheney still defends these today) are all used by our enemies as a justification for everything they are doing. The ongoing doomed to failure approach in Afghanistan is doing nothing more than propping up a corrupt drug dealing dictatorship and a civil war that is of no business of ours.

ariscus "medical wasteland"? You're a stitch! At this point I just have to laugh.

Yeah, I thought George was your boy. You speak in Bushisms. The thoughts you post are line by line what the Bushyheads have fed you. If you didn't vote for him it's probably because you didn't vote. But I don't expect you to admit that. Or you brilliantly voted Independent, which was a non-vote in its' own way.

But the fact that you are so consumed with taxes and big government and you're vocal about it NOW and not when Bush was in office should really tell you something. It tells me a lot.

It's kind of amusing, you hate Bush so much, and only(quite obviously) pay attention to the left wing media, your to busy to notice that, even amongst the right Bush doesn't have a whole bunch of fans. Sure most conservative's don't hate him like liberals do. It wasn't the right wing media who made up stories about Bush having mental disorders, autism, and all the other things the left made up. But he still wasn't much liked by the right, mainly because he screwed up their chances for re-election of a republican president in 08. But also because of the banking fiasco, believe it or not, some republicans actually lost some money too, it wasn't all the poor liberal democrats who lost. Conservatives, and republicans, lost their children and parents and brothers and sisters in a war they weren't sure had any meaning. But now that Iraq is doing "better", it's obama's accomplishment. Neat how that happened. They suffered through the real estate burst too. But they are capable of seeing that it wasn't all just one person, and the republicans never had a filibuster proof house and senate, so, the republican party isn't the only one to blame for the things that have happened since 2000. Liberals, who talk about conservatives short term memory, seem to forget this quite often. Oh well.

I am consumed with big taxes and big government. Thats not how America was founded, it was founded on the basis of government doing as little as possible. Isn't there a quote that goes something like "the government is best which governs least." I don't feel that I shouldn't pay taxes, I gladly pay my taxes, but there are millions of American's who don't, and not just the rich. I live in one of the highest taxed states. And to now have to pay even more, I'm not a fan of that. Most people I know, don't mind paying taxes, they just don't think they should pay all the taxes. Don't the top 1% pay something like 80% of all the taxes? How is that fare? When it comes to taxes, I'm huge fan of the flat tax. put a 15% tax on everyone and everything, no exemptions whatsoever. I think it would be awesome, would reduce the tax code by 20,000 pages or so, and make everything easier on everyone.