So with the New Health Care Reform passed through the House. Who is for or against it?? Why or why not?

I am not in favor. My opinion (whether it's right or wrong) is why should we pay for the people who are too lazy to get a job just so they can have health insurance? Now it's different if they are disabled and unable to work. But these people who won't get off their butts to get a job shouldn't get subsidized health care that we, tax payers, are paying for!

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by TN_girl21

So now, just imagine if the health care insurance program is not making obscene profits. You still pay premiums, but way smaller ones ($15,000 still almost makes me throw up) and it's affordable for all. Same thing, take the profit out.

It appears to me that the insurance companies, with their profits, are able to afford very good and clever PR and lobbying...........their victims are defending them.

Be smarter than this!!

When exactly did 3% profit margin become obscene? And what in your opinion is not an obscene profit margin? .1% or something in that area. I've never heard any scream and cry about outrageous obscene, disgusting profit margins, when that profit margin is 3%? I'm a little perplexed.

Lets see the profit margin before the executive pay deduction. You can reduce any excessive profit margin by increasing executive pay across the board. Lets talk about % of premium spent on health care.

Lets see the profit margin before the executive pay deduction. You can reduce any excessive profit margin by increasing executive pay across the board. Lets talk about % of premium spent on health care.

So everyone who works there should work for free? Or for minimum wage? Ah heck just let the government support them, thats why it's there right?

I'd like to post on Facebook: Those who wish to try Geroge W. Bush, Dick Cheney and others for war crimes, say AYE! But my conservative pals would ostracize me. In Texas, that would make me pretty much friendless.

ariscus: "So everyone who works there should work for free? Or for minimum wage? Ah heck just let the government support them, thats why it's there right?"

This kind of sarcasm is one reason why you're losing the battle. If you had seriously fair arguments in this debate, people would be willing to discuss it and give you some leeway. But everything has to be so far out in right field it is ridiculous.

Insurance companies take home profits in the billions of dollars. While the people paying them that money get denied coverage or get kicked out when they have a catastrophic medical condition. How in the world can you possibly defend that kind of system?

I believe in a capitalistic society as long as it doesn't create two distinct classes in that society - the obscenely wealthy and the obscenely poor. By the very nature of capitalism, greed has a way of becoming the norm and that is what has happened to us. Corporations became simply motivated by the "bottom line" and to hell with their workers, or in the case of insurance companies, to hell with the people they are supposed to be insuring.

For capitalism to work, there must be some fairness in trade. If they are not going to govern themselves, then we want the government to step in and do it. As individuals we have absolutely no chance to do it on our own.

The same thing happened with doctors and malpractice lawsuits. Yeah malpractice lawsuits got crazy but it was because of the incredibly unfair way that people were being treated when doctors did bad things that could have been avoided. They didn't police their own, they watched out for their own instead of the people they were supposed to be taking care of.

The insurance companies brought this on themselves and you and others like you want to pat them on the head and tell then that they should keep up the good work of making all the profits that our capitalistic society can give them. And to hell with any and every body whose health suffers because of their "bottom line."

It isn't right and the American people are not going to put up with it anymore. We need a good universal health care system. We need it and we deserve it. So if you think that you can keep the status quo forever when things have become so awful for so many people, you are wrong.

I'd like to post on Facebook: Those who wish to try Geroge W. Bush, Dick Cheney and others for war crimes, say AYE! But my conservative pals would ostracize me. In Texas, that would make me pretty much friendless.

I VOTE AYE. JUST ADD ROVE AND RUMSFELD TOO.

When exactly did 3% profit margin become obscene? And what in your opinion is not an obscene profit margin? .1% or something in that area. I've never heard any scream and cry about outrageous obscene, disgusting profit margins, when that profit margin is 3%? I'm a little perplexed.

Top Five Biggest Insurance Companies Profits Increased An Average 56 Percent In 2009. <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'cambria', 'serif'" sizcache="7" sizset="6">"The report released Thursday said the five biggest insurance companies had an average profit last year of 5.2 percent — for a combined total of $12.2 billion. This was an increase of $4.4 billion, or 56 percent, compared with 2008, according to the report, prepared by Health Care for America Now, a coalition of liberal and labor groups advocating for the passage of an overhaul of the health care system. The companies are WellPoint, Cigna, UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc. and Humana Inc. The data in the report were based on company filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission." [New York Times, 2/12/10]

Edited March 22, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

I can never think of Rumsfeld's name. And I can't forget Carl Rove's no matter how hard I try. Such a motley crew.

Cleo's do you ever go to movies? You should see "Green Zone" with Matt Damon. It is touted as being a typical Matt Damon spy thriller but it isn't. And it is very well done. And whether it is precisely true is pretty unimportant. It does paint a very plausible picture of what we think went on behind the scenes. And it will make you want to clamp the handcuffs on the bad guys.

Top Five Biggest Insurance Companies Profits Increased An Average 56 Percent In 2009. <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'cambria', 'serif'" sizcache="7" sizset="6">"The report released Thursday said the five biggest insurance companies had an average profit last year of 5.2 percent — for a combined total of $12.2 billion. This was an increase of $4.4 billion, or 56 percent, compared with 2008, according to the report, prepared by Health Care for America Now, a coalition of liberal and labor groups advocating for the passage of an overhaul of the health care system. The companies are WellPoint, Cigna, UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc. and Humana Inc. The data in the report were based on company filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission." [New York Times, 2/12/10]

Q4 of 2009 profits for health ins. companies.

CARPE DIEM: Health Insurance Companies Rank #88 by Industry Profit Margin, Earning $100-200 on Avg. per Policy

From the article,

Health Insurance Companies Rank #88 by Industry Profit Margin, Earning $100-200 on Avg. per Policy

I've posted several times before about the profitability of the "Health Care Plans" industry, see posts here and here, and reported previously that the health insurance industry ranked #86 by profit margin out of 215 industries, at 3.3%.

Updated data are now available for Q4 of 2009, and the Health Care Plan industry (includes Humana, Aetna, WellPoint, Magellan, Unitedhealth Group, etc.) slipped to #88 with a profit margin of 3.4%. Actually, that industry profit margin was boosted by WellPoint's 18% profit margin for Q4 2009, which was due largely to a one-time sale of its Pharmacy Benefit Management division. Without that sale, WellPoint's profit margin would have been only 3.9%, the industry average profit margin would have been closer to 3%, and the ranking for the industry would have fallen a few places down to #92.

America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), the industry's trade association representing 1,300 members, reported last October that annual health insurance premiums averaged $2,985 for individual coverage and $6,328 for family plans in 2009. Using the industry average profit margin of 3.4% means that insurance companies make about $100 per policy in profits for individual coverage, and a little more than $200 in profits for each family policy.

So even if we could strip away 100% of the health insurance industry's profits, it would only save patients between $100 and 200 per year in health insurance costs.

Let's say your information is totally on the up and up, ariscus. Just for discussion purposes of course. How in the world have the insurance companies been able to afford all the billions they've spent to defeat this bill - both in lobbyists fees and congressional bribes as well as the ads the run ad naseum on television? And why bother if their profits are so insignificant? Why not focus on providing a different kind of insurance?

Let's say your information is totally on the up and up, ariscus. Just for discussion purposes of course. How in the world have the insurance companies been able to afford all the billions they've spent to defeat this bill - both in lobbyists fees and congressional bribes as well as the ads the run ad naseum on television? And why bother if their profits are so insignificant? Why not focus on providing a different kind of insurance?

Show me the figures on how much they spent to defeat the bill. How can the US government thats 14 trillion dollars in debt afford to fly senators around on air force one to try and bribe them to vote their way at 5 million a pop to get AF1 in the air?

… While Making Huge Profits

WellPoint Profits Increased 90.5 Percent For The Year, As Medical Membership Declined Nearly 4 Percent. WellPoint disclosed that its 2009 fourth quarter net income was more than $2.7 billion, a 727 percent increase from the fourth quarter of last year. For the full year, WellPoint's profits were $4.7 billion in 2009, a 90.5 percent increase from the $2.5 billion profit it reported for the full year 2008. In addition, Medical enrollment was approximately 33.7 million members at December 31, 2009, a decrease of 1.4 million members, or 3.9 percent, from approximately 35.0 million at December 31, 2008. [WellPoint, 1/27/10]

Cigna's 2009 Net Income Increased 346 Percent As Membership Declined 5 Percent. According to Cigna's most recent disclosure, its net income for the year 2009 was $1.3 billion, a 346 percent increase from the $292 million it reported in 2008. Its total medical membership was 11 million at the end of 2009, a five percent decrease from the nearly 11.7 million it had at the end of 2008. [Cigna, 2/4/10]

Humana Net Income Increased 60.7 Percent In 2009 As Medical Membership Decreased 11 Percent. Humana reported a net income of $1.03 billion for 2009, a $392.5 million increase, or 60.7 percent, from the $647.1 million net income it reported for 2008. Its total medical membership declined from 2008 to 2009 by 11 percent, or 1.27 million, from 11.6 million to 10.3 million. [Humana, 2/1/10]

UnitedHealth Profits Increased Roughly 30 Percent For 2009 As Membership Declined 3 Percent. UnitedHealth reported a total net earning of $3.8 billion in 2009, a 28 percent increase from the $2.9 billion it reported for 2008. UnitedHealth reported that it served a total of 70.3 million at the end of 2009, down 3.4 percent from the 72.8 million it served at the end of 2008. [unitedHealth

No workers had their wages increase from 30% - 346% last year. And the way that these insurance companies make these obscene profits is by denying claims and dropping people when they get sick. These are real people who die from lack of care, but I guess for corporate america obsessed with profits that's called collateral damage.

Edited March 22, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

Once again money spent on advertising, lobbying, entertainment, executive salaries, etc. are all deducted before the 3%. You can make any business look like it has a 3% profit margin if you spend enough on deductions.

Show me the figures on how much they spent to defeat the bill. How can the US government thats 14 trillion dollars in debt afford to fly senators around on air force one to try and bribe them to vote their way at 5 million a pop to get AF1 in the air?

Saturday, February 13, 2010

Lobbyists Spend A Record $3.5 Billion In 2009: Did Average Citizens Profit From These Efforts?

A number of industry sectors notably stand-out as the deep pocket and influential lobbyists. The pharmaceutical and health industry spent an estimated $266.8 million lobbying on health care reform—this happens to be the largest amount ever spent by a single industry in a one year period of time. Business associations spent $183 million on federal lobbying. Oil and gas lobbyists spent $168.4 million. The insurance industry spent $164.2 million. At the end of the day, all of these industry sectors that I mention spent more in 2009 than they did in 2008. However, the electric utility industry spent $144.4 million, slightly off the 2008 pace for that industry segment. To recap, the top five industry sectors in terms of spending were the following:

1. Pharmaceutical and Healthcare Industry ($266.8 million)

2. Business Associations ($183 million)

3. Oil and Gas Industry ($168.4 million)

4. Insurance Industry ($164.2 million)

5. Electric Utility Industry ($144.4 million)

The single largest institutional lobbyist was the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, an association that represents roughly 3 million businesses in various industries, which distributed $145 million for lobbying activities at the federal level. The Chamber of Commerce has consistently held the top spot as the largest single spender over the past nine (9) years. 2009’s figure of $145 million spent on lobbying activity by the Chamber of Commerce marks a 6% increase over 2008 figures.

Once again money spent on advertising, lobbying, entertainment, executive salaries, etc. are all deducted before the 3%. You can make any business look like it has a 3% profit margin if you spend enough on deductions.

Enlighten me please, what is the real LeighaMason version of the profits that insurance companies make? What is the real number?

As for CM, wellpoints large Q4 profits were explained in the article I posted, and also explained what they would have been without selling the PBM division. And United made a stifling 4.33% how dare these money hungry jerks do that. In reality cigna is the only one of those mentioned by you who made over 5%.