A friend emailed me this letter concerning Obama's trip to Montana. It is sickening to me all that he is doing to our once wonderful nation. Please read it and comment if you please.

Hello All,

By now you have probably heard that President Obama came to Montana last Friday. However, there are many things that the major news has not covered. I feel that since Bill and I live here and we were at the airport on Friday I should share some facts with you. Whatever you decide to do with the information is up to you. If you chose to share this email with others I do ask that you DELETE my email address before you forward this on.

On Wednesday, August 5th it was announced locally that the President would be coming here. There are many groups here that are against his healthcare and huge spending so those groups began talking and deciding on what they were going to do. The White House would not release ANY details other than the date.

On about Tuesday, Bill found out that they would be holding the "Town Hall" at the airport. (This is only because Bill knows EVERYONE at the airport). Our airport is actually located outside of Belgrade (tiny town) in a very remote location. Nothing is around there. They chose to use a hangar that is the most remotely located hangar. You could not pick a more remote location, and you can not get to it easily. It is totally secluded from the public.

FYI: We have many areas in Belgrade and Bozeman which could have held a large amount of folks with sufficient parking. (gymnasiums/auditoriums). All of which have chairs and tables, and would not have to be SHIPPED IN. $$$$$

During the week, cargo by the TONS was being shipped in constantly. Airport employees could not believe how it just kept coming. Though it was our President coming, several expressed how excessive it was, especially during a recession. $$$$$

Late Tuesday/early Wednesday the 12th, they said that tickets would be handed out on Thursday, 9am at two locations, and the president would be arriving around 12:30 Friday.

Thursday morning about 600 tickets were passed out. However, 1500 were printed at a Local printing shop per White House request. Hmmmm......900 tickets just DISAPPEARED.

This same morning someone called into the radio from the local UPS branch and said that THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in for Obama. Montana has some of the best beef in the nation! And it would have been really wonderful to help out the local economy. Anyone heard of the Recession?? Just think...with all of the traveling the White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are paying for.

On Friday, Bill and I got out to the airport about 10:45am. The groups that wanted to protest Obama's spending and healthcare had gotten a permit to protest and that area was roped off. But that was not to be. A large bus carrying SEIU (Service Employees International Union) members drove up onto the area (illegal) and unloaded right there. It was quite a commotion and there were specifically 2 SEIU men trying to make trouble and start a fight. Police did get involved and arrested the one man but they said they did not have the manpower to remove the SEIU crowd.

The SEIU crowd was very organized and young. About 99% were under the age of 30 and they were not locals! They had bullhorns and PROFESSIONALLY made signs. Some even wore preprinted T-shirts. Oh, and Planned Parenthood folks were with them.....professing abortion rights with their T-shirts and preprinted signs. (BTW, all these folks did have a permit to protest in ANOTHER area)

Those against healthcare/spending moved away from the SEIU crowd to avoid confrontation. They were orderly and respectful. Even though SEIU kept coming over and walking through, continuing to be very intimidating and aggressive at the direction of the one SEIU man.

So, we had Montana folks from ALL OVER the state with their homemade signs and their DOGS with homemade signs. We had cowboys, nurses, doctors you name it. There was even a guy from Texas who had been driving through. He found out about the occasion, went to the store, made a sign, and came to protest.

If you are wondering about the press... Well, all of the major networks were over by that remote hangar I mentioned. They were conveniently parked on the other side of the buildings FAR away. None of these crowds were even visible to them. I have my doubts that they knew anything about the crowds.

We did have some local news media around us from this state and Idaho . Speaking of the local media...they were invited. However, all questions were to be turned into the White House in advance of the event. Wouldn't want anyone to have to think off the top of their head.

It was very obvious that it was meant to be totally controlled by the White House. Everything was orchestrated down to the last detail to make it appear that Montana is just crazy for Obama and government healthcare. Even those people that talked about their insurance woes...the White House called our local HRDC (Human Resource and Development Committee) and asked for names. Then the White House asked those folks to come. Smoke and mirrors...EVERYTHING was staged!!!!!!!!!!!

I am very dismayed about what I learned about our current White House. The amount of control and manipulation was unbelievable. I felt I was not living in the United States of America , more like the USSR. I was physically nauseous.

Bill and I have been around when Presidents or Heads of State visit. It has NEVER been like this. I am truly very frightened for our country. America needs your prayers and your voices. If you care about our country please get involved. Know the issues. And let Congress hear your voices again and again! If they are willing to put forth so much effort to BULLY a small town one can only imagine what is going on in Washington DC. Scary.

K.

Bozeman , Montana

Patty: "Now, I ask you, why would anyone be willing to die for a lie? "

Obviously thousands of American soldiers were willing. They gave their lives for the lies of Bush and Cheney.

Absolute proof isn't the necessary component for everyone to be believers in the idea that God is real and that Jesus is God. Those who aren't absolutely positive need credible proof. They need something that they can relate to. Blind faith is only possible if you have it, unquestioningly, and absolutely.

Once you begin to question that the Bible is absolute truth, it cannot stand up under the scrutiny. One can only be SURE if one is able to cast all doubt aside and turn away from the troubling questions and absence of answers. For those who are able to do that, is similar to the pagans who worshipped the sun god and other idols. There was obvious proof that the sun held their fate in its' hands, of course, and that was all the proof some needed to be avid and unquestioning worshippers.

That is not to say that people cannot accept certain facets of Christianity or any other religion without proof. But to believe blindly, to know for SURE and for CERTAIN that any one particular belief is undoubtedly the ONLY truth, is single-minded and small and self-centered.

It is like saying that there is absolutely no way that there are parallel universes or life in outerspace. We can't state that as an absolute. And acknowledging that there is a possibility of those things existing, is being open minded to other truths. Believing absolutely in those things which are unproven and controversial only shows that one has accepted ones' own thoughts and beliefs and ideas as being superior to all else.

Patty: "Now, I ask you, why would anyone be willing to die for a lie? "

Obviously thousands of American soldiers were willing. They gave their lives for the lies of Bush and Cheney.

So true. At least for the first half of the Iraqi war, most of our soldiers thought it was because Iraq was tied to 9/11. So sad that they died for that lie perpetuated by the bush administration.

Using 'all' the evidences for Jesus' existance and resurrection together, one can come to the conclusion that he is God. From the many testimonies of the eye witnesses at the time, to the living non contradictionary words in his bible (that was written by many differing people all over the world at different times and once put together formed a miraculous complete book which not only teaches and shows the way for mankind, but predicts future events, most of which have already been fulfilled), to the witness of the Holy Spirit that each believer recieves to live within his being at the point of acceptance of the truth, to each believers own testimony of what Jesus has done in their lives, to archeological evidence of the truths of the scripture, and on and on, one must recognize that he is God. A person doesn't put his faith in God due to one bit of evidence, but due to all of the evidence combined. Like I said , you will never know the truth unless you seek it for yourself.

Lots of prophecies from different prophets have “come true”, it doesn’t give the prophet any credibility in my book. If you take a good look at the prophecies of Nostradamus you could be convinced that he was the most accurate prophet of all time. The problem is that as you study it more and more, you begin to read more and more into those prophecies. If you look at them objectively, you see them for what they are, mere coincidences. Prophecies in the Bible are just the same in my opinion and true believers want to believe in them so badly that they infer even more than is actually there. Somebody once said “There is no there there” – that’s how I feel about it.

As for “knowing” the truth, I “know” my truth and I am comfortable with that.

Something I have come to to realize over time is this: Mankind will stubbornly refuse to believe the truth for fear of actually having to answer to someone other than himself. For once you know that there is a God out there who made you, you will then become accountable to him, and that is not desired by most of us, for we are all truly sinful. If only mankind could know the love and mercy and grace of their Father who is in Heaven, they would not fear to become accountable to him, or know him.

See the cynic in me would turn that around and say that line of thinking allows people to blame someone else for their flaws. “God made me flawed and I turn myself over to him to show me the way…” I believe I am responsible to myself and my fellow man to do the right thing. If I am bad and immoral, I ruin my own legacy and bring shame on my whole family. In my opinion, God can not just forgive my indiscretions and make everything right. If I do something unjust, it is my responsibility to make it right.

Patty: "Now, I ask you, why would anyone be willing to die for a lie? "

Obviously thousands of American soldiers were willing. They gave their lives for the lies of Bush and Cheney.

Good one.

Sadly Cheney is now admitting those lies but he still stands behind those decisions:cursing:. In this respect, I hope Patty is right about everything she adheres to. If anyone deserves to spend eternity in the fires of Hell it is Cheney – or does he already run the place:confused:?

It is like saying that there is absolutely no way that there are parallel universes or life in outerspace. We can't state that as an absolute. And acknowledging that there is a possibility of those things existing, is being open minded to other truths. Believing absolutely in those things which are unproven and controversial only shows that one has accepted ones' own thoughts and beliefs and ideas as being superior to all else.

I suggest you take a look Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kako, it is a fascinating read.

I was still half asleep when I posted my little diatribe this morning. I can't force myself to be quiet when I read some of the stuff that is so exclusionary and extreme and so positively close-minded to other possibilities. And I get so wound up that my rant doesn't make a lot of sense to everyone else. I do think that kartman and Cleo'smom get my drift. At least I believe they try to understand the point I'm trying to make.

Thanks for the book tip, kartman. I'll check it out. That is if it is in the library. :-)

I was still half asleep when I posted my little diatribe this morning. I can't force myself to be quiet when I read some of the stuff that is so exclusionary and extreme and so positively close-minded to other possibilities. And I get so wound up that my rant doesn't make a lot of sense to everyone else. I do think that kartman and Cleo'smom get my drift. At least I believe they try to understand the point I'm trying to make.

Thanks for the book tip, kartman. I'll check it out. That is if it is in the library. :-)

Well, BJean - here's a completely different topic for you to mull over. Not to mention laugh about. I just heard that the republican party is thinking of running Dick Cheney for Pres. and Sarah Palin for VP in 2012. I can only hope. That would just be like waiting for the punch lines. Darth Vader and Caribou Barbie. Their campaign poster could show them both with their shotguns. It's just too bizarre to comprehend. But it should give you a chuckle.

I heard that rumor. I think it is something some good humored Dems floated out there just to be funny. I'm not sure that the Republicans are THAT dumb. But geez, they did run her for V.P. and actually used him for V.P., so nothing's impossible. You know a photo with those two with shotguns is a true dream ticket for the neocons.

Lots of prophecies from different prophets have “come true”, it doesn’t give the prophet any credibility in my book. If you take a good look at the prophecies of Nostradamus you could be convinced that he was the most accurate prophet of all time. The problem is that as you study it more and more, you begin to read more and more into those prophecies. If you look at them objectively, you see them for what they are, mere coincidences. Prophecies in the Bible are just the same in my opinion and true believers want to believe in them so badly that they infer even more than is actually there. Somebody once said “There is no there there” – that’s how I feel about it.

As for “knowing” the truth, I “know” my truth and I am comfortable with that.

The bible is the only book in the world that has precise, specific predictions that were made hundreds of years in advance and that were literally fulfilled. Here you have incredible predictions that were literally fulfilled in the life of one man, Jesus, even though he had no control over most of them. For instance, He couldn't have arranged his ancestry, the timing of his birth, and so on. These prophecies were written 2-400 years in advance. No other book in the world has this. The problem with Nostradamus and so many other so-called psychics is that their predictions are often very enigmatic, ambiguous, and innacurate. They could fit a great varity of events. Not a single prediction of his has ever been proven to be genuine. They are vague in their predictions. The Hitler prediction wasn't specific at all.

Here it is:

"Followers of sects, great troubles are in store for the Messenger. A beast upon the theater prepares the scenical play. The inventor of that wicked feat will be famous. By sects the world will be confused and devided... Beasts mad with hunger will swim across rivers. Most of the army will be against the Lower Danube[Hister sera]. The great one shall be dragged in an iron cage when the child brother[de Germain] will observe nothing."

Obviously this is not a reference to A. Hitler. The word isn't Hitler, but Hister, and it's clearly not a person, but a place. The Latin phrase de Germain should be interpretted as 'brother' or 'near relative', not Germany. He doesn't site any dates or even a general time frame. Besides, what does he mean by 'beasts' and 'iron cage'? It's so confusing that the entire prophecy is meaningless.

There are 191 predictions in the OT about the coming Messiah, and they were all fulfilled in Jesus.

It may seem to you that an all powerful God could do a better job of convincing people of his existance. "Why doesn't God just write it across the sky! Heres your proof! Believe in me or else. Sincerely, the Almighty."

Psalm 19:1 says "The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmamant proclaims his handiwork."

In fact it is written across the heavens so vividly that more and more scientists are becoming Christians.

It's not for lack of evidence that people turn from God; it's from their pride or their will. God is not going to force anyone into the fold. Love never works coersively. It only works persuasively. And there is plenty of persuasive evidence there.

God maintains a delicate balance between keeping his existance sufficiently evident so people will know he's there and yet hiding his presence enough so that people who want to choose to ignore him can do it. This way, their choice of destiny is really free.

Good one.

Sadly Cheney is now admitting those lies but he still stands behind those decisions:cursing:. In this respect, I hope Patty is right about everything she adheres to. If anyone deserves to spend eternity in the fires of Hell it is Cheney – or does he already run the place:confused:?

Hell is punishment-- but it's not a punishing. It's not torture. The punishment of Hell is separation from God, bringing shame, anguish,and regret that is mental and physical. The pain that will be suffered is due to the sorrow from the final, ultimate, unending banishment from God, his kingdom, and the good life for which we were created in the first place. People in hell will deeply grieve all they have lost. Hell is something God was forced to make because people chose to rebel against him and turn against what was best for them and the purpose for which they were created. You know, when people founded the United States, they didn't start out by creating jails. They would have much rather had a society without jails. But they were forced to create them because people would not cooperate. The same is true of Hell.

Near death experiences have demonstarted beyond a reasonable doubt that when people die they're still able to be conscious.

BTW, There is no literal 'fire' in Hell. Flames are a figure of speech. We know this because if you try to take it literally, it makes no sense, for Hell is describe as a place of utter darkness and yet there are flames? Flames would light things up. Whenever the bible speaks of 'flames' it is speaking of 'judgement'. God himself is called a consuming fire. Using the flame imagery is a way of saying that he is a God of judgement. This is why it is important to study the word of God, and not take what religious teachers have taught you to be true as fact. Many children have been taught that they will burn in fire forever if they reject God. This simply isn't true biblically. The truth is that rejecting God in this life will seperate you from him for all eternity, and it will be a torture to your soul forever.

Edited September 5, 200916 yr by pattygreen

See the cynic in me would turn that around and say that line of thinking allows people to blame someone else for their flaws. “God made me flawed and I turn myself over to him to show me the way…” I believe I am responsible to myself and my fellow man to do the right thing. If I am bad and immoral, I ruin my own legacy and bring shame on my whole family. In my opinion, God can not just forgive my indiscretions and make everything right. If I do something unjust, it is my responsibility to make it right.

When your son or daughter disobeys you, and they come to you and ask you for forgiveness, are they then forgiven? Whenever we do something unjust, we are disobeying our Father who told us not to do it. Therefore, he has every right to say to us that everything is alright now, I forgive you. When God makes everything alright, he's not taking away your responsibility to rectify what you've done. He also expects ammends just as you should expect consequences.

Patty: "There is no literal 'fire' in Hell. Flames are a figure of speech. We know this because if you try to take it literally, it makes no sense, for Hell is describe as a place of utter darkness and yet there are flames? Flames would light things up. Whenever the bible speaks of 'flames' it is speaking of 'judgement'. God himself is called a consuming fire. Using the flame imagery is a way of saying that he is a God of judgement. This is why it is important to study the word of God, and not take what religious teachers have taught you to be true as fact. Many children have been taught that they will burn in fire forever if they reject God. This simply isn't true biblically. The truth is that rejecting God in this life will seperate you from him for all eternity, and it will be a torture to your soul forever."

Thanks patty, for pointing out at least one ambiguous bit of writing in the Bible.