They can't even run "Cash for Clunkers" -- yet they want to handle your healthcare

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Cleosmom, obviously you put your stock in polls which can be skewed or outright lied about. I have talked to people and have seen where these things we're talking about don't work.

So long as you believe what you hear and I believe what I see, we won't ever come to a meeting of the minds.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to see life through rose-colored glasses. I simply choose to be faced with reality than some fluff I'd LIKE to believe.

Me looking at the world with rose colored glasses after 8 years of bush? AU CONTRAIRE!!

It is highly unlikely that you talk to people outside of your comfort zone - i.e. those who think differently than you. Therefore, your views are the ones skewed to the right. I'll trust the polls over your limited opinion sampling.

Now, back to the rose colored glasses. During the 2004 presidential campaign between Kerry and bush - you will remember that the swiftboaters savaged Kerry's war record and people at the RNC wore purple bandaids to mock the war wounds that earned Kerry his 3 purple hearts. During 2004 the Iraqi war was going very badly but bush kept telling the American public that things were going well. I dubbed that looking at the world through rose colored glasses and called Terry McAullife, then chairman of the DNC, and told him the people at the DN Convention should wear rose colored glasses in response to bush's vision and the purple bandaids. If you watched it, you would have seen that they did. So, no, my vision is crystal clear. It was the neocons who lived behind the rose colored glasses for 8 years of bush.

[BeckyinTn 0]

I just worry that if it sounds good most buy into it without really looking deeper into what we are hearing. I call it the "pied piper" mentality. It is on both sides of the aisles. It happened under Clinton, Bush I and II and now under Obama. Doesn’t matter what party or what name you want to put on it. There is a cost for everything that the Government does.

The question is can we afford it? What are we going to have to give up?

[BethFromVA 5]

Me looking at the world with rose colored glasses after 8 years of bush? AU CONTRAIRE!!

It is highly unlikely that you talk to people outside of your comfort zone - i.e. those who think differently than you. Therefore, your views are the ones skewed to the right. I'll trust the polls over your limited opinion sampling.

Now, back to the rose colored glasses. During the 2004 presidential campaign between Kerry and bush - you will remember that the swiftboaters savaged Kerry's war record and people at the RNC wore purple bandaids to mock the war wounds that earned Kerry his 3 purple hearts. During 2004 the Iraqi war was going very badly but bush kept telling the American public that things were going well. I dubbed that looking at the world through rose colored glasses and called Terry McAullife, then chairman of the DNC, and told him the people at the DN Convention should wear rose colored glasses in response to bush's vision and the purple bandaids. If you watched it, you would have seen that they did. So, no, my vision is crystal clear. It was the neocons who lived behind the rose colored glasses for 8 years of bush.

It's ironic that you bring up the "validity" of polls AND Bush/Kerry in the same post.

If memory serves, nearly every poll out there had Kerry winning. Same with Gore. :biggrin:

Polls are only as good as the organizations giving them, the crossection of the people they are polling, AND the honesty of those organizations' results. If you put more stock in polls than what people really SAY, well... :biggrin:

[BethFromVA 5]

I just worry that if it sounds good most buy into it without really looking deeper into what we are hearing. I call it the "pied piper" mentality. It is on both sides of the aisles. It happened under Clinton, Bush I and II and now under Obama. Doesn’t matter what party or what name you want to put on it. There is a cost for everything that the Government does.

The question is can we afford it? What are we going to have to give up?

Everything.

And just to be clear for those who may think Obama walks on Water, I don't just blame THIS administration. This type of thing has been coming down the pike for a long time. It's just that NOW, I believe this administration believes they can pass any turd sandwich under our noses that they want to and we'll just take it.

[BethFromVA 5]

I think video like this is WAY more indicative of how people feel than ANY bullcrap "poll" you can find out there:

[BethFromVA 5]

This one's even better. This lady says what so many of us have been saying:

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

[KartMan 58]

I think video like this is WAY more indicative of how people feel than ANY bullcrap "poll" you can find out there:

Don’t buy into this not being able to read the Bill crap.

It is just another of the many scare tactics the Right and the lobbyists are using to stall this Bill. Every single member of those subcommittees knows exactly what is in those Bills and those Amendments. They each have 20 plus staff members devoted to reading this stuff and knowing the contents. The big Bill in the Energy & Commerce that was signed on Friday has 1000 pages – for lawyers like them, 1000 pages is like the back of a Cereal box. For lay people like us, that may seem like a lot, but it is a Bill for crying out loud – they are always big. If these members can’t read the freaking Bill then they should be voted out, this is their chosen job after all – give me a break already.

[BethFromVA 5]

Don’t buy into this not being able to read the Bill crap.

It is just another of the many scare tactics the Right and the lobbyists are using to stall this Bill.

So... the scare tactic of "WE HAVE TO SIGN THIS THING NOW" is what, better? What's the left's hurry? Why are they playing Henny Penny on this thing? For no good reason, that's why.

Every single member of those subcommittees knows exactly what is in those Bills and those Amendments.

I'm sorry to be so crass, Kartman, but BULLSHIT. There is no way that ANYbody knows EVERYthing that's in 1400 pages of this shit sandwich.

The big Bill in the Energy & Commerce that was signed on Friday has 1000 pages – for lawyers like them, 1000 pages is like the back of a Cereal box. For lay people like us, that may seem like a lot, but it is a Bill for crying out loud – they are always big. If these members can’t read the freaking Bill then they should be voted out, this is their chosen job after all – give me a break already.

Look, ANY "bill" that has that many pages to it is usually full of so much shit that they don't WANT the average layperson to know what's in it. Laypeople should be able to know what it is that's being passed. Otherwise we simply have a case of elitist prigs who are speaking Latin to keep the masses in control. Oh wait, that was done once already. :smile2:

I'm sorry, but any government that muddies the Water as much as ours does is up to no effin' good. They know it, and some of us smarter "laypeople" know it too. If you need a stable full of lawyers and a secret decoder ring to figure the damn thing out, it's nothing but a smokescreen to take away more of our liberties, pure and simple.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

It's ironic that you bring up the "validity" of polls AND Bush/Kerry in the same post.

If memory serves, nearly every poll out there had Kerry winning. Same with Gore.

Polls are only as good as the organizations giving them, the crossection of the people they are polling, AND the honesty of those organizations' results. If you put more stock in polls than what people really SAY, well... :huh2:

Gore did win. He got 500,000 more votes nationally and he won Florida. Many, including me, believe Kerry won Ohio, too. But these are a whole other forum.

And speaking of polls, Gallup is considered very reputable. The latest Gallup poll shows 30 states solidly democratic and only 4 solidly republican. That shows that people have rejected what it is that republicans stand for or more importantly what they oppose.

[KartMan 58]

....

Beth: So... the scare tactic of "WE HAVE TO SIGN THIS THING NOW" is what, better? What's the left's hurry? Why are they playing Henny Penny on this thing? For no good reason, that's why.

I just love how on the one hand Republicans say that we are rushing thru something people do not yet fully understand and on the other, they say we are trying to ram thru all the old “liberal agenda” that has been on the shelf. Which is it Beth? Which truth would your side like to go with today? The reason it is being rushed (actually, I personally don’t think it’s being rushed – there are no big surprises here to me) is (1) it’s the right thing to do, we should have done a lot of this stuff 20 years ago before we got into this mess. (2) The longer the Bill lies out on the vine, the more opportunity the Right will have to “Swiftboat” it and scare the hell out of everyone with baseless lies. This is the biggest reason. If you don’t believe me, listen to your guy Jim DeMint who says by stopping this legislation Republicans can make this into Obama’s Waterloo. (3) Like it or not, your side lost. Obama was elected with a mandate and one of his major campaign promises was to get this legislation passed. Personally I think this is one issue that he ought to force just on the basis of his popularity and the votes he has in congress. I don’t think he should even try for bi-partisan support.

Beth: I'm sorry to be so crass, Kartman, but BULLSHIT. There is no way that ANYbody knows EVERYthing that's in 1400 pages of this shit sandwich.

Your not being crass, you are being facetious. It was clear what I meant when I said what I said. Members of both sides of the aisle have more than enough time and staff to know the content of these Bills. The argument that they don’t is ludicrous and insulting to position that they hold.

Beth: Look, ANY "bill" that has that many pages to it is usually full of so much shit that they don't WANT the average layperson to know what's in it. Laypeople should be able to know what it is that's being passed. Otherwise we simply have a case of elitist prigs who are speaking Latin to keep the masses in control. Oh wait, that was done once already.

I'm sorry, but any government that muddies the Water as much as ours does is up to no effin' good. They know it, and some of us smarter "laypeople" know it too. If you need a stable full of lawyers and a secret decoder ring to figure the damn thing out, it's nothing but a smokescreen to take away more of our liberties, pure and simple.

That is a ridiculous argument. Every law that is being passed by the federal or the state governments these days is written that way, this one is no different than any other in that respect. They are all in legalese because that is the language of the law. That’s not a liberal or conservative thing, it’s just they way things are.