I feel rude saying this stuff but I want to get it out too. Bear with me, it's going to be long!

I did Weight Watchers (henceforth abbreviated to WW) three separate times, all online. The most I lost was probably 25 pounds. I freaking hated it. I became obsessed with points. I couldn't eat anything without worrying about how many points were in it and accurately figuring out the portion size. It did force me to learn proper portion sizes (not that I stuck with them, but at least I now know that I'm eating 2.5 portions of rice instead of thinking I'm only eating one). But overall I really disliked the program, especially the platitudes and common sense advice dispensed as if it were some kind of special revelation.

I know someone who has done WW off and on for 15 years now or more. She has all of the books and point counters and whatever else from every incarnation of the program. I believe that she has lost a lot of weight on it in the past. She falls off the wagon, gains the weight back and eventually goes back to it.

When I visited her recently she was on the wagon. We ate out a lot. I watched how she grossly underestimated portions (saying "that looks like about half a cup" when it was more than a cup). Instead of doing the work to figure out how many points something actually was, she just guessed. That's part of what I hated about WW. There are lots of sites with points listings from restaurants, but inevitably I'd eat somewhere that wasn't listed. So I'd have to try to get the nutrition facts and/or ingredient list from the place to get an accurate points count. I'm sure I was terribly off most of the time. But I don't think my friend bothered with that stuff. She'd just say, "Oh, I think it's probably about 14 points." Really, it was probably more like 25 points, but then that wouldn't leave you many for the rest of the day and that's just not something that anyone even wants to consider. Maybe she also knew deep down that it was probably more than 14 points but told herself that it wasn't.

I have gently mentioned to her that maybe WW isn't the way to go for her. But she insists that it DOES work. OK, maybe so. But maybe it doesn't work for her. It's like she can't consider trying anything else. What I want to say is that if it really did work, then she wouldn't have gained the weight back. I am not allowed to say anything potentially negative about WW.

So there's that. And it kind of pains me, because I know that she has health problems and I know that she probably needs to do something more drastic than just count points. Yes, she knows I am getting banded (one of the few people who do) and no, I have not tried to convince her that she should do it also.

I have another acquaintance that I stopped talking to her about two years ago for the most part. At the time, she had lost a decent amount of weight and was pretty proud, rightfully so, of her loss (another WW disciple). But then she was badmouthing an acquaintance of hers for "letting herself go" after getting married -- essentially getting fat and not trying to continue looking good for her husband. OK, so you lost weight and suddenly you get to judge people for being overweight? I wasn't aware that was how it happened. You'd think that you would have sympathy since you'd been there. It annoyed me so much that I didn't want to talk to her anymore.

Here's the part where I feel schadenfreude. I recently stumbled upon her blog in which she talked about how much weight she'd gained and she now has a BMI of almost 40. Wow, she really let herself go, didn't she? Yes, I know that's cruel, but honestly...I can't help it. She looked down her nose at other fat people when she'd lost some weight and now she's fat again. And she's back on the WW wagon of course!

OK, I should say now that I suppose WW must work for somebody. And it does have some redeeming qualities. But the statistics about dieting and keeping weight off long term aren't good. So I'd wager that WW is making its money off the same group of people who keep coming back, hoping that it'll work this time. Maybe THIS time.

How many times have all of us said that, come to think of it? It's a tool that I know doesn't work for me. I hope the band will. But I also hope that people who'd rather count points forever will understand why some of us would rather get banded or do something different. It's a personal choice and it's all about what you can live with. People can eat around their band and regain their weight. If you want to sabotage anything, you can. I realize this. But since most of my experience has been with WW, that's what I chose to rant about.

I couldn't agree more. I have had people tell me that I really should try weight watchers. I told them I was no good at counting points,

and they would tell me how simple it is to figure out the points. Then I would have to tell them I have no interest in learning how to count points.

I am so much happier now with the band. I don't have to count anything. I sort of count Protein grams, but I don't count carb grams or calories anymore. I know which size portion I can eat,

and if I am not hungry, I don't eat. The band is the greatest!

What I hate about WW is that they hype it saying it's not a diet. Uh, yeah, it is too.

And I got a mailing from them today that said those who do WW lose 3x as much as those who go it alone. I read the fine print on that one when I was on WW and it said WW folks lose on average 9 pounds versus 3 lost by dieters on their own! Whoopee!

We are all here for the same reason...We have had a hard time losing weight for years and years. I too have had many attempts at weight watchers...I have failed miserably...That said...I believe 100% in Weight Watchers program. It is a guide to healthy eating and a program that should be adopted for life. I wish I had been able to stick with it. Then I would not have had to take such a drastic move as surgery. I think people deserve support no matter which road they choose to lose weight. You made no mention of them critisizing your decision so I think you should support theirs...To each their own.

I have to disagree. I don't think you can say we're all here for the same reason. Especially We have had a hard time losing weight for years and years.

I have an easy time losing weight. I could lose weight with my eyes closed. I never even had to work at it (I work at it MORE now that I'm banded, than I did when I wasn't), I just had to shift *something* about how I ate, ideally paired with shifting *something* about how I lived my life. I'm here because I could never maintain the loss. I spent 8 years either actively losing weight or actively gaining weight. There was no maintenance at all. I would be losing, get near where I wanted to be, then start gaining. I lost all of my excess weight about 4 times over, without significant effort. And that's not a "yay me" - it's just an illustration of how we're actually here for very different reasons.

That being said, I still think WW is to weightloss programs what televangelists are to the neighborhood churches. And I fully understand that's not everyone's opinion. :cursing:

If any of these diets worked as well as the folllowers of them would have us believe, they would all go out of business,because no-one would ever need to go again.

They make money (and pots of it) BECAUSE they know that we will fail, that the hunger will get the better of you at some point and then you will fall back into the old habits.Then you go back and get reindoctrinated, and they start making money again.The majority of their business is repeat custom.

They can teach you about food and nutrition and that if you eat too much you will get fat (no shit sherlock) but what they cant do is control your hunger. In my experiance I knew all about the other shizzle but the hunger always won out in the end.

If any of these diets worked as well as the folllowers of them would have us believe, they would all go out of business,because no-one would ever need to go again.

They make money (and pots of it) BECAUSE they know that we will fail, that the hunger will get the better of you at some point and then you will fall back into the old habits.Then you go back and get reindoctrinated, and they start making money again.The majority of their business is repeat custom.

They can teach you about food and nutrition and that if you eat too much you will get fat (no shit sherlock) but what they cant do is control your hunger. In my experiance I knew all about the other shizzle but the hunger always won out in the end.

Absolutely. That's why I've always had a bad taste in my mouth towards WW. I mean, hey, good for the person that thought it up, and the person that thought up Jenny Craig, etc., etc., etc. They've managed to make a mint, I'm sure. The organization itself, though, IMO, is still built around making money off of fat people who keep coming back to them over and over and over. The organizations want the programs to fail. Not immediately, of course, but eventually. After all, if the program didn't fail, they wouldn't get the guaranteed repeat customers who think that it wasn't the program's failure, but rather their failure. The customers think that if they just try a little harder this time, they'll succeed. And in 6 months or a year, they'll be coming right back for another try when the current one fails. The program doesn't teach someone how to live, IMO, it teaches them to become dependent on WW.

My biggest complaint right now about Weight Watchers is the new commercial that they are running where they claim, loudly "DIETS DON'T WORK... WEIGHT WATCHERS DOES!"

Bull hockey. Weight Watchers is an eating plan that restricts calories and certain foods. By jiminey, that's a DIET! They are losing members to LB surgery and one reason so many people are turning to LB surgery is because we have all learned that diets really don't work in the long run for most of us. We have all been able to lose weight. But restricting our caloric intake and restricting what foods we can eat only teaches us about caloric or point counting and being hungry, and rebounding big time.

The reason LB surgery can work is because it actually restricts the amount of food we can consume in one sitting. It doesn't restrict us from eating the high calorie super-foods - like candy, cakes, ice cream, etc. But it does make us stop and think when we overdo it. And if we seriously overeat, we have to physically pay for it in mega pain.

I know many, many people who sing the praises of W.W., but who have been members for years and who pay their dues and who are constantly losing, gaining, losing, gaining, on the diet yo-yo that has been so harmful to all of us. So my big complaint is about their latest ad - which I find terribly incorrect and misleading!

If W.W. works for someone and they're happy with it, that's a good thing. But for W.W. to make an outrageous claim that they aren't about dieting, I am highly offended.

Yeah, that latest ad campaign annoys me. How is it not a diet?

Wheetsin, I like your comparison to televangelists! And you're right. I have lost weight before. It's the keeping it off part...

BJean, you said it better than I did.

I'm just curious.Do you all feel the same way about gyms and exercise? Those too seems to be a healthy program that involves will power and determination. Do you think that is a crock? I'm not picking a fight, and I'm here just as you all are. I made a choice for the band because it was right for me. I too believe it is only a tool and involves a lot of hard work. But, if I am totally honest with myself ,I did it because I was unable to keep the motivation and will power to follow any healthy and moderate eating plan on my own. I was a failure at dieting as well as exercise. So I'm just throwing it out there. What are your views on exercise programs and if you are not opposed to them, how do they differ in comparison to weight loss programs?

I have never been involved with any programme such as WW. I did have a friend who once went to one of these organisations in order to lose weight. (It was one where you paid for the food.) It worked for her but she was highly motivated and she only needed to shed about 15lbs or so. I have also known a few morbidly obese women on a very casual basis through work who have gone through these programmes and who have remained morbidly obese. I suspect that these programmes may work best for those individuals who have 30lbs or less to lose. I figure that the public yet supportive environment may serve to keep these women on track with their diets.

As for myself, I have never been good at following rules. I have never met a rule that I didn't want to break. This is why I had never even attempted to go the diet route once I realised that I had become a fatty. I knew that some sort of surgical intervention was in order if I was to be rescued from my own personal lardiness. I was thinking liposuction until a GF told me about the band. The band has worked like a charm for me; it has presented an actual physical barrier between me and my gluttony. And I have also done some research since being banded as to which foods are the best ones to eat. The band was kind of inspirational this way. And I now make a point of reading the nutritional facts on the labels of all prepared foods.

As for losing weight through exercise alone, well, I tried that method before getting banded. It didn't work for me. My fat got firmer is all.

Still, if obese folk persist in continuing on with programmes such as WW even though these programmes are obviously not working these people are still getting something valuable out of the experience, are they not? My hunch is that these overweight folk are enjoying the social and psychological aspects of these programmes. Think about it for a minute! WW offers these people a place to go, to hang with other folks who are like themselves, to have a chance to talk comfortably about their weight issues without experiencing any feelings of embarassment or defensiveness. I believe that it might be the social component of these programmes which serves to draw those failed dieters back again and again.

Eating right (portions AND foot types) and exercising are the ultimate answer. Diets are just a fancy way to try and get you to do it. Pre-cooked meals, or shakes, or whatever, they're all a control mechanism for the eating right part. Unfortunately the exercise part is a bit harder, and I lack motivation in that department as well, but that doesn't mean it's a sham or it's any less necessary. My opinion on that part of the subject, anyway.

As for WW specifically, I'd rather just count calories than try and figure out how many 'points' something has. I'm also leery of the things out there that have substance (a Soup commercial comes to mind) that have 0 points. If you eat enough 0 points, you're consuming enough cals to not lose weight, I would think.

Besides, I've never been a fan of being embarrassed, so if I didn't lose, or even gained on the program, I'd just not go to the weigh in to avoid that shame.

We are all here for the same reason...We have had a hard time losing weight for years and years. I too have had many attempts at weight watchers...I have failed miserably...That said...I believe 100% in Weight Watchers program. It is a guide to healthy eating and a program that should be adopted for life. I wish I had been able to stick with it. Then I would not have had to take such a drastic move as surgery. I think people deserve support no matter which road they choose to lose weight. You made no mention of them critisizing your decision so I think you should support theirs...To each their own.

I'm in complete agreement with you! I believe that all weight loss programs and weight loss surgeries have the potential to work right for you... or not....

THere are no guarantees with any of them... I've seen people faile or have excellent success with "diets" and I've seen people fail and succeed with "WLS".... and with all you must keep balanced and disciplined eating habits and exercise for the rest of your life.... period.... otherwise you will gain the weight back, lapband, RNY, WW, JennyCraig... I think the results can be the same with any of these....maybe some faster than others.... only we choose the one that we believe may work better for us...in our case was the lap-band, and others choose WW...I believe in support everybody...:rolleyes2:

I agree, green. There is definitely a social aspect to these groups. That works for some and doesn't work for others.

If people need that kind of social interaction and support I am glad that there are groups available for them.

One of my aunts won the "Slimmer of the Year" for Australia for WW, many years back and has worked until recently as an "ambassador" or some such thing for them. She did have phenomonal success with it, dropping from what must have been 350lb+ (at a guess) to under 150lb. She did manage to keep it off for a few years, but has been slowly putting it back on over the last half dozen years or so. Since she quit working for them, I think the weight is coming back faster.

I've never tried Weight Watchers - tried Jenny Craig, Lite-N-Easy and a gazillion diets, but I was never into that whole "group therapy" scene and there was no way on earth I was going to get on a scale in front of a bunch of others and have them ridicule me if I didn't lose that week! At least with Jenny Craig, the weigh-ins were in private with your consultant. Lite-N-Easy (one of the home delivery systems in Aus) worked best for me, as it meant absolutely no effort involved on my part. However, it didn't stick well as a long term plan and I slowly regained the 20kg I had lost. Still, it took me only 4mths to lose that and 4 years to regain it... But this time round, it's going to be gone for GOOD!!!

I think my surgeons nurse said it best when she was reviewing my past weight loss attempts, "Hmmm, keeping the doors open at Weight Watchers I see.."

'nuff said.

I agree with pretty much everyone else in regards to WW. While I do think that you CAN have success I do not think that it works well for many people in the long run. People will just eventually stop going and then that's when the cycle of gaining again returns.

I went to WW about 5 years ago and lost approx 55 lbs and kept it off for years continuing to lose about another 20-25 lbs on my own. However, I only lost 55lbs because eventually I just got tired of going and while I did learn useful information about portion sizes, reading nutrition labels etc, I was fortunate enough to keep that 55lbs off BUT I was still around 290lbs (this with my own 20-25 lb loss) so I obviously have food issues/laziness issues I think I lucked out and my body agreed to stay at the weight for a while. I attempted WW online a couple years ago and did nothing but waist money as I never really followed along with it.

So then I tried Medifast which I lost like 20lbs in a month and well I couldn't do it for more than a month and in the time frame from doing that and meeting my now DF and doing the whole "eating out new relationship thing" too much I managed to gain back all 20lbs and an additional 15-20 in revenge (my last supper syndrome didn't help my cause either).

So while I think that these programs can be successful, I firmly believe it's only short term successes and it's just a matter of time before people fall off the wagon, gain back the weight and revenge weight and have to start ALL over again.