NPR was doing a segment this morning on a very large Christian movement to have the new movie, The Golden Compass, boycotted. Of the three Pullman (a professed rejector of organized religion and atheist), this one (based on Northern Lights) has the least occurence of "anti-religion" themes - the last having the most. He is seen as being anti-Christian and anti-Catholic, but if you're familiar with him, he is much more anti-religion in the most general sense.

People are trying to stop their children from seeing this movie, out of fear that interest in the movie will generate interest in the books and *gasp* expose their children to themes of anti-religion.

I really don't understand this.

Why would someone be afraid that their child might learn that there's such a thing as atheism or agnosticism?

Why does the Harry Potter series terrify parents? Is it horrible if children know that there's a fantasy world of magic, or IF they can make the more cognitive connections, that witchcraft is out there?

As an atheist, I would not prevent my child from reading books which presented religion or a diety as a good thing, or books that presented atheism as a bad thing, or books that taught about ideas outside of whatever. If my child wanted to go to church, I would not prevent it. If they wanted to read the bible, I would buy them one. I would hope that my child understands there are different things that are right for different people, and eventually gathers the information needed to make the decision that is right for them... whether it aligns with my personal beliefs is irrelevant. What's right for me isn't right for everyone, and everyone includes my own family.

To get the laughter that burns 3500 cal / day, you have to read books written by Jack Handy. Sometimes my abs hurt after I read his stuff.

my abs only hurt when I pb, I think those are abs??

Yes, my point of view is an opinion, nothing more. However, I am not speaking from ignorance or a lack of capacity. I too have felt that "conversion" moment, have believed that I had a "personal relationship with god". I come from an atheist family and went seeking in my early teens, attending bible classes and going to many different churches over the course of several years. I had myself baptised into the Church of Christ at 15 years old and at that time, was convinced that I really felt "his presence" in my life. However, the older I got, the more I questioned it. The more I learned about psychology and the power of our own minds, the more I realised that all that emotional reaction to "hearing the Word" was just that - emotion, happening inside my own head.

Take an objective look at the language of prayer. Pretty much all of it comes down to "Daddy, help me. Daddy, love me. Daddy, please make the bad things go away". Now I love and adore my Daddy and will always be Daddy's Little Girl, but I'm a grown up now and I don't need him to shelter and guide me any more, and I certainly don't need an imaginary substitute in the sky.

I understand where you are coming from, again, it's your opinion and feelings, like you said yourself, nothing more, I don't think you are speaking out of ignorance or lack of capacity, and I don't think I am either, in fact by reading the comments on this subject from both sides, most seem pretty smart , only the evidences on both sides are hard to prove.

Regarding the prayer language, I agree that some may sound like your example above, not all though, I laughed a little bit because my own prayers don't sound like that at all, I won't speak for others though, I don't ask God to love me, because I believe he already does, I never ask him to make the bad things go away, I always pray that His will be done, good or bad, I love God unconditionally, not just for Him to make the bad go away or for him to love me, it's not a daddy /little girl relationship I have with God which sounds pretty immature, I take care of myself, I don't need an "imaginary daddy" in the sky, which for believers is not really "the sky" it's heaven..just a little difference there.. to solve all my problems, my relationship with God is different, but I know that we won't agree and that's ok, I agree to disagree, and I won't try to explain why I believe or my relationship with Him in details because it won't make any difference, as long as you and I are happy with ourselves, it's all good.:thumbup:

Edited June 10, 200818 yr by ELENATION

Wow, I don't know quite why I clicked on this thread.

As a person of christian faith, I am not troubled by those who do not believe, or those who are angry at God, or whatever. I am concerned about MY relationship and understanding of God. A catholic does not believe as a baptist, a baptist as an episcopalian, an episcopalian as a unitarian, as a born again, as a christain scientist, as a mormon, as a buddist, as a muslim, as a hindu, as an agnostic, as an atheist. I personally believe that God is greater than my understanding, and is untroubled by the small disagreements about his existence that I might have in my lifetime. He is great enough to hold all of us (christain, muslim, and atheist) and our limited understanding of his plan in the palm of his hand.

My mother is a woman of faith who has been married to an atheist for 45 years- they never argue about religion. My mother loves my father in all his delusion that we are alone in the universe and my father loves my mother despite her foolish insistence in a Higher Power. I believe that their form of love for one another is a beautiful representation to me of how to approach my relationships with others.

This is a quote from the Japanese version of the Hindu faith- "There are many paths to the top of Mount Fugi."

Kat W

Wow, I don't know quite why I clicked on this thread.

As a person of christian faith, I am not troubled by those who do not believe, or those who are angry at God, or whatever. I am concerned about MY relationship and understanding of God. A catholic does not believe as a baptist, a baptist as an episcopalian, an episcopalian as a unitarian, as a born again, as a christain scientist, as a mormon, as a buddist, as a muslim, as a hindu, as an agnostic, as an atheist. I personally believe that God is greater than my understanding, and is untroubled by the small disagreements about his existence that I might have in my lifetime. He is great enough to hold all of us (christain, muslim, and atheist) and our limited understanding of his plan in the palm of his hand.

My mother is a woman of faith who has been married to an atheist for 45 years- they never argue about religion. My mother loves my father in all his delusion that we are alone in the universe and my father loves my mother despite her foolish insistence in a Higher Power. I believe that their form of love for one another is a beautiful representation to me of how to approach my relationships with others.

This is a quote from the Japanese version of the Hindu faith- "There are many paths to the top of Mount Fugi."

Kat W

I really enjoyed reading this post. Thank you very much for posting it.

I understand where you are coming from, again, it's your opinion and feelings, like you said yourself, nothing more, I don't think you are speaking out of ignorance or lack of capacity, and I don't think I am either, in fact by reading the comments on this subject from both sides, most seem pretty smart , only the evidences on both sides are hard to prove.

Regarding the prayer language, I agree that some may sound like your example above, not all though, I laughed a little bit because my own prayers don't sound like that at all, I won't speak for others though, I don't ask God to love me, because I believe he already does, I never ask him to make the bad things go away, I always pray that His will be done, good or bad, I love God unconditionally, not just for Him to make the bad go away or for him to love me, it's not a daddy /little girl relationship I have with God which sounds pretty immature, I take care of myself, I don't need an "imaginary daddy" in the sky, which for believers is not really "the sky" it's heaven..just a little difference there.. to solve all my problems, my relationship with God is different, but I know that we won't agree and that's ok, I agree to disagree, and I won't try to explain why I believe or my relationship with Him in details because it won't make any difference, as long as you and I are happy with ourselves, it's all good.:behindsofa:

Hmmm... you won't try to explain your beliefs but when I didn't reply with my explanation of my beliefs quickly enough to respond to your demand, it was because I'm "angry"? I think it is more that you CAN'T explain your beliefs. They're inexplicable. I can provide logical and rational reasons for my beliefs all day, whereas the "arguments" on the other side come down to "it feels right to me" - pure emotion.

I can provide logical and rational reasons for my beliefs all day, whereas the "arguments" on the other side come down to "it feels right to me" - pure emotion.

I think it's more because the reasoning used is not something you understand.

Take the Big Bang theory for instance, no one knows for sure what really happened, but science says some stuff toppled together and then earth began. Somehow, that's enough reasoning for most people. I wonder, where did all that crap come from? Who made it? My logic is that nothing comes from nothing. If it exists, it had to be formed somehow, bugs, dirt, water don't just get formed on their own. Oxygen, hydrogen, and all our natural elements came from somewhere... before the world was. My explanation is that something bigger than you and I put a motion into action. If your explanation is more "logical" by all means, discuss. But it's not... because discussion on this thread leads to there not being an answer. Now, the difference between you and me is that you're willing to accept that "magically" they appeared, whereas I'm not. I guess I'm not naive and dependent enough on the science community to just say "Because we said so." I want more answers than that.

Besides, how do you know my feelings aren't valid? There's no way for you to determine if the way a person feels is based on their own "intuition" or an actual prompting from a higher source. You can't just throw that out the window because you don't feel it too.

fanny - do you call your own name out during sex?

:behindsofa: sorry had to ask, immature as it may sound.

i get your view - i don't share the same outlook; but as i said in previous posts in this thread - my faith is mine, i don't even share the same views religiously with my husband (and politically either for that matter) so i enjoy learning & understanding those w/an alternative perspective. it's the spice of life in MO.

I have found that almost all people who don't believe in God, are angry at Him.

How many things that do not exist are you angry with?

Are you angry with the spaghetti monster?

Are you angry with flying pink and purple monkeys?

Are you angry with pink elephants who bark?

Seriously, how many things that do not exist are you angry with?

Hey! We're forgetting the Great Pumpkin, here people! What about the Great Pumpkin!?

(That's for BrandyII)

Katw: I'm with Green, I enjoyed reading your post very, very much. I thank you too, for posting it.

Scholars have been debating the existence of God for decades. It would be pretty amazing if we unearthed something no one had ever thought of before here at LBT.

The best we can do is to provide some kind of understanding between the believers and non-believers, and to learn to accept each others' beliefs instead of getting defensive and accusatory.

Atheists have it easy because they have a good body of science to support their thinking, but as for feelings about religion - whether it is intuition or a very real experience one has had, like MrsFlipFlops said, "You can't just throw that out the window because you don't feel it too."

Btw Mrs.FlipFlops, I have no problem with the president using prayer and his good judgement based on his faith to help him handle the duties of the office. But that is quite different from having a powerful group from a particular faith making decisions for our nation.

Again, if he had a group of Bishops and the Pope who were telling our president what to do, I think you might wonder exactly when we elected them and exactly what their motives are. I know there are those who think that the Pope is infallable, but I am not one of them. And as for Bishops, the horrendous priest/child molestation scandal speaks for itself.

And as for churches contributions toward helping the needy, I have no quarrel with the good works of any church. I am proud of the voluntary contributions and hands on projects in this country to benefit the needy (not all of which are faith-based, by the way). Any group or individual who wishes to help his/her fellow Americans gets high marks in my books. But all of that can certainly be done without any political strings attached.

If someone is contributing personal service or money to help others, it should not be done for the reason of gaining power - in any form.

Hmmm... you won't try to explain your beliefs but when I didn't reply with my explanation of my beliefs quickly enough to respond to your demand, it was because I'm "angry"? I think it is more that you CAN'T explain your beliefs. They're inexplicable. I can provide logical and rational reasons for my beliefs all day, whereas the "arguments" on the other side come down to "it feels right to me" - pure emotion.

Fanny, maybe I missed it, but did I say you were angry? I hope I didn't, but if I did I apologize because I never thought you were angry, in fact I said I respect your opinion and everyone's and didn't mean to sound demanding, you explain what you want if you want to, it doesn't bother me at all.

Also, the reason why I said that I didn't want to go into explaining my beliefs is not because I'm trying to avoid the answer really, what I meant was that believers more than likely understand my beliefs already, and non believers won't, not because they are not smart to understand them, absolutely not, only because they don't find my beliefs and my explanations of them logic or rational as you said it yourself above, so I thought it wouldn't make any difference to either side if I tried to explain my beliefs in my earlier post, so if if I came across as sarcastic or demanding, please know that was not my intention at all.

If I explained my personal beliefs I would say that to me believing in God is like believing in an absolute ,but that's just for me, I understand that a belief in God is considered a matter of faith, rather than the evaluation of evidence, which is how it feels for me , and that is just a feeling and/or an emotion for non believers, scientifically inexplicable, so here is my own simple explanation of "my" beliefs, but of course I know it won't be logical to you, which I can understand and respect but I'm still ok with my beliefs.

You know, many people including lots of very smart, logical people have believed and continue to believe in God which gives a boost to us believers, but again, that doesn't prove anything. I don't think that neither the believers nor the non believers have convinced the other that there is or there is not a GOd, each shows their side as possibly right... both sides come out thinking that they are right or at least "could" be right, Hey, It's all good.:biggrin2:

I'd like to quote what BJean said in one of her posts above that I thought it was extremely interesting and I couldn't have said it better, (I hope you don't mind BJ:redface:) she said: Atheists have it easier because they have a good body of sciende to support their thinking, but as for feelings about religion - whether it is intuition or a very real experience one has had, You can't just throw that out the window because you don't feel it too"

Edited June 11, 200818 yr by ELENATION

Hey! We're forgetting the Great Pumpkin, here people! What about the Great Pumpkin!?

(That's for BrandyII)

Thanks Gloucester, I appreciate not being left out:lol:

Hey! We're forgetting the Great Pumpkin, here people! What about the Great Pumpkin!?

(That's for BrandyII)

Ahhhh, but the great pumpkin is real! I saw him on TV~

BJean:

Atheists have it easy because they have a good body of science to support their thinking, but as for feelings about religion - whether it is intuition or a very real experience one has had, like MrsFlipFlops said, "You can't just throw that out the window because you don't feel it too."

Maybe we have felt it too, we just don't credit that feeling to a god?