There is no place to post this where newbies won't see it and newbies are likely to become annoyed, accuse me of being mean... whatever. So be it, go for it and say what you have to say. Cuz you know what? I don't care.

I received a PM this morning regarding a thread where someone did as they do, cheated on the post op diet. Someone a little more experienced came back essentially saying that when s/he cheated an old timer came back throwing a fit. It was probably me that s/he was talking about. Okay. I probably did throw a fit.

The more experienced bandster went on to say that they didn't believe anything I wrote and they had no problems from cheating on the post op diet.

How stupid is that? Seriously, what kind of dumb ass does it take to say it's no biggie to go against the post op instructions?

The claim is that the diet has changed and all these docs have different diets so it really doesn't seem to matter what you eat because (the way I read it anyway) regardless of what you eat post op you are following SOME doctor's diet SOMEWHERE.

Yeah, this is true. Some docs don't even mention there IS a post op diet (Laurend's doc, for example). Others are too strict such as my own doc.

Anyone know why the docs are changing the post op diet? They are dumbing it down for us. We don't follow the diet. My own doc did the same thing. His thinking was that people aren't doing what they are supposed to so to make it a little easier he essentially dumbed it down so that people wouldn't cheat.

I can understand that, and to be honest I am the one that pushed him into changing the diet because people are not following it anyway. His was two weeks of clears, two weeks of fulls, two weeks of solids, and gradually reintroduce solids. That is too much, people couldn't do two weeks of clears so they eat fried chicken at 4 days post op. I think the thinking from patients is that if they are going to cheat anyway, they might as well go for it. When I approached him about changing the post op diet he was a little annoyed and basically said if I could do a better job with it to write it out and he'd consider it. He took most of my suggestions, not all but most.

You know, the stats for slips are increasing. They have gone from 3% globally to now Inamed is hinting that it is up to 7%.

Gee, I wonder why.

When I saw that thread I had to restrain myself from suggesting all dumb asses eat taffy and steak right after surgery. I actually had to restrain myself from writing that. I'm to the point that I don't care, they can eat what they want. It's their band, their stupidity, their everything. I'm not talking someone who learns from their mistake but instead someone who changes their beliefs to fit their behaviors. Big, huge, mega difference. I am not talking someone who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the diet, I'm talking someone who knows full well why the diet is important, WHAT is healing (and it's not stomach swelling), someone who knows they are doing something wrong and instead of bloody well taking responsibility for their own actions they justify it by changing their beliefs to fit their behaviors and telling newbies that the old timers are wrong.

You know what isn't wrong? Slips that have more than doubled since docs started changing the diet. At first I thought it was newbie docs that didn't have a clue what they were doing because they are not experienced. Everyone wants a piece of the $$$ bariatric pie. It's easy money for many docs. I thought it was their technique. But you know, it's since the docs started changing post op diets that slips have more than doubled.

But those of us who have followed the diets, worked hard, and reached or are reaching goal... we don't know what we are talking about.

I don't know how much longer I'm going to harp about post op diets. It might make a difference to a small few but I see posts whining about old timers and others whining that we don't know what we are talking about.

I'm going to stick to pushing research BEFORE surgery. Let the dumb ass idiots eat steak and taffy if they are truly dumb asses. It's their band, their choice. AGAIN!!!! I am referring to those that know better but change their beliefs based on their own behaviors vs. reality.

I honestly don't know if I am in a pissy mood today or if I actually mean what I am writing. How's that for distorted!

What about other band manufacturers? Do we know what all every band maker is recommending around the world? Do we know if new bands have different postop protocols? Hell, I'm not making any attempt to keep up with the literature on this issue, and I'm certainly not recommending that everyone disregard any information. But for medical advice I put my trust in my doctor, and assume other people do the same.

Wasa, with regard to quoting you above I wasn't intending to chastise. I wasn't saying anyone had done what I was trying to prevent (get high and mighty), I was just pointing out the potential for it happening on the other thread and hoping to head it off. Sorry it didn't come across that way.

Okay, I admit I'm anal retentive and I used to check up on other band manufacturers post op diets! HA! Research and post op diets are my big thing in the bariatric community. At one point I was comparing the diets to the stats but I quit doing it when I realized that many band makers are justifying their band over another and their stats are not always accurate. But for the time being, it's the best we have in the areas of studies and such.

As I wrote, I didn't even respond to that post. Tact isn't my area of expertise and the only thing I had to offer was something against what her doc was suggesting so I didn't respond for that very reason. But it DOES make me feel like my head is popping when I read something like that. I want the whole freak'en world to experience "thin" again without slips, erosion, or other complications. So while I try to tone down that feeling a bit, it still comes out. That's why I didn't respond to the post.

I just wanted to say that the doctor in question is in the UK. I could have sworn they spoke english there...what language barrier?

I completely agree, but it goes beyond "what the doctor orders". What I don't understand is people who don't use this as a catalyst for change! Whenever I went on a new "diet" before, I sort of needed something to jolt me into change. I might pick up the latest diet book or join a gym or WW. This time I paid $14,000 and went under the surgical knife. There ain't no bigger "jolt" than that one, and I sure wasn't going to waste it.

And the simple fact is that success breeds success. Those who jump into this with motivation to change *immediately* are the ones who are more likely to achieve their goals. The ones who wait for restriction to do it for them are the ones who struggle.

Tami

WasaBubblebutt, you are so right girl. I really am surprised how much the doc reccomendations warry in US from here in Europe. I was on clear liquids for 1week then 2 weeks on liquids and 2 weeks on mushies.I have read so many posts about how their doc told them they can eat mushies in a week and I was wondering. I dont know about the ratio of slippage here in Europe but when I asked my doc about the different diets he told me (no offense) that in the US they want to make it seem easy and with no problems or restrictions (something like magic cure to obesity).

But if they really present it that way there must be a lot of dissapointed people!It might be cause you guys have to pay for it and the docs want to make money....

WasaBubblebutt, you are so right girl. I really am surprised how much the doc reccomendations warry in US from here in Europe. I was on clear liquids for 1week then 2 weeks on liquids and 2 weeks on mushies.I have read so many posts about how their doc told them they can eat mushies in a week and I was wondering. I dont know about the ratio of slippage here in Europe but when I asked my doc about the different diets he told me (no offense) that in the US they want to make it seem easy and with no problems or restrictions (something like magic cure to obesity).

But if they really present it that way there must be a lot of dissapointed people!It might be cause you guys have to pay for it and the docs want to make money....

I want to disagree with you but I can't. I hadn't thought about it in those terms but what you write makes sense.

I had surgery in Mexico and my post op diet was two weeks of clears, two weeks of full liquids, two weeks of soft foods, then gradually reintroduce solids.

I was talking to a friend yesterday on the phone and we were talking about the TV ads for banding put on by Inamed. They are on every single night. They pay for the ads and the individual docs are promoted. We both agreed that to watch those commercials it makes it look like a piece of cake. It does not even touch on the head stuff, wanting huge quantities of food, etc. It makes it seem soooo easy! I think people who don't know better than what the band manufacturer is telling them are in for a rude awakening when they actually get a band.

Maybe this is part of the reason stats for slips are increasing. People aren't prepared? Post op diets that are inadequate? People think they will only WANT a small portion of food?

Regardless, it's deceptive on the part of Inamed when the show those commercials.

It's really hard not to say something when someone is complaining about their post op diet. There was a post where the person said her doctor was just plain mean to make her stay on liquids.

At support group, I was told that the band manufacturers are going to stop selling bands to certain doctors.

I think there is a difference between those of us who had to come up with the money and people who had their insurance pay.

Personally, I think the band is such a gift to the world that I would not do anything intentional to mess it up. I can't even believe that I am at a weight that I haven't been for

25 years. I worry all the time that something is going to go wrong

and the band will be taken from me.

This is a very good subject/thread WasA! If newbies come in here

and think we are just being judgemental because they don't want to follow a post op diet, there really is nothing we can do. If they read carefully, they will know that it's only because we don't want people to lose their bands.

Did you read the post from the guy that is on CLEAR liquids, his doc doesn't even consider Jello appropriate for the clear phase and he wanted to know what we thought of Cheeto? After all, they melt in your mouth.

I responded by asking HIM what HE thought if his doc didn't want him to have Jello, what did HE think the doc would say about Cheetos? He actually claimed not to know.

It made me want to suggest that broth is bad for newbies and taffy and steak are yet again, good options.

It's just another example of someone changing beliefs to fit behaviors. I have to keep reminding myself that if someone wants goal bad enough, they'll do what it takes.

I think there is a difference between those of us who had to come up with the money and people who had their insurance pay.

I don't know that I completely agree with this. I think it really depends on the individual's personal discipline level and how much they want to lose weight. Sure we ALL want to lose weight, but there is a point that some, not all, reach where they will do anything to reach their goal (regardless of whether or not they are self pay).

If your above statement is true, does that mean that because my insurance company (the same insurance company that my husband and I pay hefty premiums to each week) paid for my surgery, I won't be as successful as someone who had to take out a loan to pay for their banding? My sore ass and hunger-panged stomach do not think so.

Along the same lines, does a person who has to pay for college do better in their studies than someone who has their parents pay for it? I can attest first hand to the contrary. The first time I attempted school, I had to take out loans and I did so poorly! I really didn't care that I had to borrow against my future to pay for something that I was simply giving a half-assed attempt at. Sure, I wanted to get good grades, but I didn't want to work for them. The second attempt, I still had to take out loans, but the difference was this time I wanted to do well and get the best education that I could, and I was willing to do everything possible to make sure that happened.

As was the case with my education, WLS boils down to one thing: maturity. That is something that comes from personal experience and can't necessarily be taught. You should be commended for trying to save people from themselves, but I just don't think you can. Not because I don't believe that you are a capable and persuasive person, but because that is something that people need to learn for themselves. Like teenagers, they must learn from their mistakes. Unfortunately it's an expensive mistake to have to learn from, not only monetarily, but also health wise.

At support group, I was told that the band manufacturers are going to stop selling bands to certain doctors.

I think there is a difference between those of us who had to come up with the money and people who had their insurance pay.

like Trixie, i have to disagree with this as well. i am fortunate enough to have UHC and they covered all but $1400 (deductible) of my surgery and fills only cost me $30.

i think it does boil down to maturity and truly how bad they want it.

It made me want to suggest that broth is bad for newbies and taffy and steak are yet again, good options.

**drooolll** mmmmmm ... steak.... i am going in for a fill Monday, can i have steak after that??

like Trixie, i have to disagree with this as well. i am fortunate enough to have UHC and they covered all but $1400 (deductible) of my surgery and fills only cost me $30.

i think it does boil down to maturity and truly how bad they want it.

**drooolll** mmmmmm ... steak.... i am going in for a fill Monday, can i have steak after that??

I think in general self pays do a bit better. Not always, and there certainly are plenty of us insurance people doing well, but in general.

I say this because most of the people willing to shell out $15000 of their own money are ready for the change and have the maturity to handle it. Whereas, insurance will approve those who meet the criteria even if they are not mentally ready. So yes, it does ultimately booil down to maturity and readiness.

**drooolll** mmmmmm ... steak.... i am going in for a fill Monday, can i have steak after that??

Absolutely! Matter of fact I highly suggest you do this. Be sure to cook it to a verrrry well done first and no A-1 Sauce either.

I think in general self pays do a bit better. Not always, and there certainly are plenty of us insurance people doing well, but in general.

I say this because most of the people willing to shell out $15000 of their own money are ready for the change and have the maturity to handle it. Whereas, insurance will approve those who meet the criteria even if they are not mentally ready. So yes, it does ultimately booil down to maturity and readiness.

I kinda sorta have to agree.

What about people so desperate they will go to a 3rd world country if that is all they can afford? Happens to be that many surgeons are even more experienced in banding there but the stigma associated with it is difficult.

Ever see those people that throw a fit because WLS isn't in their insurance policy and they'll be darned if they are going to use their own money for their own health care. Are those people really serious about life saving surgery?

When you see the extremes on both sides, you just can't help but to notice.

I am new to this forum, but I have to totally agree that people are driving me crazy with their inability to stick with the post op diet for the required time AND even more frustrated that they refuse to take any advice even if it means potentially saving their lives. My doc only made me do 2 weeks of full liquids and 2 weeks of mushies before our first fill and real food. However, I was scared to death that I was going to mess everything up so I essentially stayed on liquids for the full 4 weeks. I was so afraid that I would cause it to slip that even now after having fills it takes me a while to go back to solids.

Tami- I have never heard it put any better

And the simple fact is that success breeds success. Those who jump into this with motivation to change *immediately* are the ones who are more likely to achieve their goals. The ones who wait for restriction to do it for them are the ones who struggle.

This is why I have been so successful. I didn't care if I had a fill or not, I follow the bandster rules all the time. I forgot to chew a while back, ended up with something lodged and had to have a complete unfill. My doc told me that I would gain weight during this time, but I told him that I would prove him wrong. And despite the fact that it was difficult I managed to lose 10 pounds during those 42 LONG days. How did I do it? I pretended like I was filled as tight as I could be. This IS about a lifestyle change and the band IS A TOOL! Thank you for this thread, because I really hope that people researching will look here and realize that this is a lot harder than what people think. Hopefully those that feel like they can't get through one more day of a post-op will come here and realize that the end result is so much better than a steak.

Nice post Karri! More of the newer bandsters should be thinking like you!

"When I saw that thread I had to restrain myself from suggesting all dumb asses eat taffy and steak right after surgery. I actually had to restrain myself from writing that. I'm to the point that I don't care, they can eat what they want. It's their band, their stupidity, their everything. I'm not talking someone who learns from their mistake but instead someone who changes their beliefs to fit their behaviors. Big, huge, mega difference. I am not talking someone who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the diet, I'm talking someone who knows full well why the diet is important, WHAT is healing (and it's not stomach swelling), someone who knows they are doing something wrong and instead of bloody well taking responsibility for their own actions they justify it by changing their beliefs to fit their behaviors and telling newbies that the old timers are wrong."

I felt the exact same feelings pre-op, then for about five days post-op where I could only get down clear fluids...but then I got off my high horse and started being more supportive to others.

It is quite offensive to state that a person who is tackling compulsive/binge eating is a dumb ass or it is due to their stupidity. Obesity / morbid obesity is a complex issue, and to a lot of people it takes a great deal of time, and fills, to finally be able to get a grip and become successful at their weight loss.

Making a statement like that is extremely discriminatory and does nothing but make the person that is having these difficulties feel extreme guilt over their actions...which causes them to eat more...which then makes them feel more guilty and depressed...the vicious cycle continues on and on.

They go through the exact same negative feelings before surgery. Dealing with people that assume because they are obese that they lack willpower, they are stupid, etc. etc. does nothing but put them back into that depressed state.

I would dare to say that the vast majority of people who are banded do have periods where they succumb to their overwhelming urges to overeat; however I believe that if they have a supportive group of friends they will be able to finally achieve success.