You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

{quote] I’ll give he Moslems some credit on getting out of this dilemma. At least they had the sense to say that the Quran was not written by man, but that the illiterate Prophet Mohamed recited the words told to him by the Archangel Gabriel. Abu Bakr later had scribes transcribe the recitation word for word into the Quran. [end]

Christians do not deny that "man's" hands wrote the bible. God gave these revelations to men who wrote them just as he dictated it to them. Moses wrote some of the Old Testament and Paul and other Apostle's of Christ wrote letters that were compiled for the New Testament. All the bible was written for man through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who is God.

If you will venture out and actually read it, you will find that it is no ordinary book. Even though these books were written at different times and varying circumstances, they harmoniously compliment each other and constitute a whole. It has been aptly remarked that the Hebrew scriptures are the New Testament in prophecy and the New Testament is the Hebrew scriptures in fulfillment (Jere. 31: 31-34, cp. Heb. 8: 7-13). When one considers there were about 40 persons, many of whom from totally different backgrounds, and about 1500 years consumed in the making of the Bible, the Bible truly bespeaks inspiration - a book beyond the scope of mere men.

Edited April 7, 201016 yr by pattygreen

There is no doubt that reading, believing and following the Bible has changed many, many lives. Thousands and thousands (how many millions?) of testimonies prove this. The words of the Bible create an impact that can last a lifetime. Biblical principles have the power to change the quality of life beyond cultural norms and expectations. Not making you “wealthy and healthy,” but by giving you contentment and peace unknown elsewhere. In the words of the apostle Paul: “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:6-7:).

People get out of debt and shed addictions, marriages are saved and restored, parents become better parents, families grow closer, hate turns to love, forgiveness replaces resentment and genuine joy replaces material happiness. Following the teachings of Scripture lays a solid foundation for a better and happier life. Some are changed overnight, some are transformed over time. Either way, change for the better occurs. God’s Word is the dynamic, transforming power of God. It's not just any book. It's your Creator's book.

It's hard to listen to people talk about "common sense" and truths when they believe in a virgin birth, rising from the dead and people becoming salt. (My sister-in-law wrote that one) lol. Go ahead and quote that scripture that says go ahead and speak for me. Love God. While you're at it look for something that says fertilized eggs have souls...take your time.

patty: "All (believers and unbelievers) will stand before God and give account for what they have done. They will be judged according to their deeds which are recorded in one of these books."

Well this part of what you said makes sense to most people. The part where you say that people are going to heaven, no matter what if they just believe, is wishful thinking - for fanatical religious people.

Question...if God is all seeing and all knowing why does he have to keep our sins and deeds in a book? Shouldn't he have that crap memorized?

yes, he knows all, sees all, knows every hair on your head, knows what you're thinking, when you've sinned, when you've even thought about sinning... so you better not pout, you better not cry, you better not cry 'cause I'm telling you why... Santa Claus... oops, I mean God, is watching you tonight! Sung to the tune of Santa Claus is Coming to Town.

It's hard to listen to people talk about "common sense" and truths when they believe in a virgin birth, rising from the dead and people becoming salt. (My sister-in-law wrote that one) lol. Go ahead and quote that scripture that says go ahead and speak for me. Love God. While you're at it look for something that says fertilized eggs have souls...take your time.

In Psalm 139, David described God’s care of him even at the earliest stages of his development. He said that Jehovah saw “my unformed substance” (v. 16). The Hebrew expression appears to denote the “undeveloped embryo” (Kirkpatrick, 789; cf. Kidner, 466; emp WJ). The “embryo” exists before implantation.

In Psalm 22:10 David states "from my mother's womb you have been my God."

This text indicates that David considered himself a person from the moment of his conception.

A Greek word corresponding to the Old Testament zera' is sperma (seed). It is found 217 times in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint; LXX), and 44 times in the Greek New Testament. Likewise, it is employed metaphorically for a person; and this “seed” (person) commences at “conception” (see Hebrews 11:11).

Both Elizabeth and Mary are said to have “conceived” a “son” — not mere tissue (Luke 1:36). It will scarcely be denied that “son” in this context indicates a person.

James wrote: “The body apart from the spirit is dead” (2:26). The text suggests (by implication) that the spirit is present as soon as there is a living body. That tiny “body” commences at conception.

The divine equation is this: body – spirit = corpse; body + spirit = living person.

patty: "All (believers and unbelievers) will stand before God and give account for what they have done. They will be judged according to their deeds which are recorded in one of these books."

Well this part of what you said makes sense to most people. The part where you say that people are going to heaven, no matter what if they just believe, is wishful thinking - for fanatical religious people.

I see it this way: You either believe all he says or none of it, but you can't believe only the part that you think makes sense to you and discard what you feel doesn't make sense.

All God says is true.

BTW, why do you find it so hard to believe that God will not condemn his own children who have not lived good lives, or who sinnned? If your own son or daughter were not living as you felt they should, would you disinherit them? Would they cease to be your children? I should think not. Neither will God. We might discipline our kids, or withhold our blessings from them, but disown them and send them away from us? never.

Also, you said here:

The part where you say that people are going to heaven, no matter what if they just believe, is wishful thinking.[end] Well, it's not just that they believe, (for even Satan "believes" in God, and we know he's not going to Heaven) It's that they must ask God to save them and have faith in what he says he will do.

God does not want to force anyone to love him. He desires that everyone will ask to be a part of his family. He wants everyone to be his children. He will deny noone that request.

So there are millions and millions of lifeless embryos having been created but for some reason, perhaps due to a misshapen sperm or malformed egg for instance, and the embryo miscarries instead of develops, but nevertheless has a soul like a fully developed human being has a soul?

Pity all those blobs of tissue created from misshapen sperm or deformed eggs that have no chance of actually becoming a baby, but have souls because the Bible tells us that sperma is seed and it is employed metaphorically for a person; and this “seed” (person) commences at “conception."

Your logic is flawed. You're saying sperma is seed. But then you must take a leap to suggest that a seed is a person. Because to justify your position that a sperma is a person, you say that in the Bible "seed" (or sperma) is employed metaphorically for a person.

Great powers of reasoning and deduction. But I'm glad to know that you and yours haven't "interpreted" the Bible. It's all there for all of us to know. Geez, woman get a grip.

Question...if God is all seeing and all knowing why does he have to keep our sins and deeds in a book? Shouldn't he have that crap memorized?

That is for our benefit. Mankind has a hard time understanding spiritual things. So, to say that our deeds are recorded in a book makes sense. It helps mankind to understand that God knows all that we've done throughout our lives. He is keeping track of it.

In Psalm 139, David described God’s care of him even at the earliest stages of his development. He said that Jehovah saw “my unformed substance” (v. 16).

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.

All the days ordained for me

were written in your book

before one of them came to be.

The Hebrew expression appears to denote the “undeveloped embryo” (Kirkpatrick, 789; cf. Kidner, 466; emp WJ). The “embryo” exists before implantation.

In Psalm 22:10 David states "from my mother's womb you have been my God."

10 From birth I was cast upon you;

from my mother's womb you have been my God.

This text indicates that David considered himself a person from the moment of his conception.

A Greek word corresponding to the Old Testament zera' is sperma (seed). It is found 217 times in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint; LXX), and 44 times in the Greek New Testament. Likewise, it is employed metaphorically for a person; and this “seed” (person) commences at “conception” (see Hebrews 11:11).

11By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he[a]considered him faithful who had made the promise.

Both Elizabeth and Mary are said to have “conceived” a “son” — not mere tissue (Luke 1:36).

36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.

It will scarcely be denied that “son” in this context indicates a person.

James wrote: “The body apart from the spirit is dead” (2:26).

26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

The text suggests (by implication) that the spirit is present as soon as there is a living body. That tiny “body” commences at conception.

The divine equation is this: body – spirit = corpse; body + spirit = living person.

Thanks so much for the James 2:26 quote I have looking for that!

So there are millions and millions of lifeless embryos having been created but for some reason, perhaps due to a misshapen sperm or malformed egg for instance, and the embryo miscarries instead of develops, but nevertheless has a soul like a fully developed human being has a soul?

Pity all those blobs of tissue created from misshapen sperm or deformed eggs that have no chance of actually becoming a baby, but have souls because the Bible tells us that sperma is seed and it is employed metaphorically for a person; and this “seed” (person) commences at “conception."

Your logic is flawed. You're saying sperma is seed. But then you must take a leap to suggest that a seed is a person. Because to justify your position that a sperma is a person, you say that in the Bible "seed" (or sperma) is employed metaphorically for a person.

Great powers of reasoning and deduction. But I'm glad to know that you and yours haven't "interpreted" the Bible. It's all there for all of us to know. Geez, woman get a grip.

The seed does not have a soul until it meets the egg. Then it is a soul, a living being.

My point is that all these spontaneous miscarriages, those blobs of tissue - united sperms and eggs in whatever condition - have souls according to you.

P.S. you said a seed is a person.

I see it this way: You either believe all he says or none of it, but you can't believe only the part that you think makes sense to you and discard what you feel doesn't make sense.

All God says is true.

If what you say above is true and All God says is true and God wrote the Bible which that says:

JAMES 2 14-

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Then the logical conclusion is that your argument that faith is enough to get you to heaven is not right.