You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

My 3 adult children are in college right now, and they each are paying for it themselves. They go to the community college and it costs them approx. $3200. a year. 2 are working part time and one full time. My daughter pays her tuition on a monthly basis to the college. They still can afford it. They give me $100. a week room and board, they put some into a savings, and they pay for their own car insurance and gas and cell phones. I have another son who went to a trade school after college and is paying his loan at $250. a month. My daughter had a son and went to college at the same time and held down a full time job, and she paid for it herself! A college education is in EVERYONES reach. So don't go there. The government is NOT needed to get a college education. Hard work and an incentive to better yourself financially is all that is needed. I can't stand it when you liberals feel that if it wasn't for the help that the government provides to you, you'd fall in a hole and never get out!! Anyone making $8-10. an hour can pay for their college tuition, AND an apartment. They may have to forgo thier eating out and movie nights out for a while and get rid of their new car and drive a used one, but they can do it.

Community colleges are tax funded. Hmmmmmmm! Somebody else is paying for your kids college. Geeeshhh!

If they went to public elementary and high school someone else paid. If they used public recreation, somone else paid. How come its okay for subsidy for the ones you use but not for the children of the extremely poor? Yep, and I bet your kids making $8 and hour didn't accept any government loans or pell grants to get through school. Of course they could make it on $8 and hour paying $400 per month rent and pay tuition even at a community college or trades school. Right!

Edited January 29, 201016 yr by Corliss
additional thoughts

death panels: THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS in the healthcare bill and Sarah Palin and others know it. But it preys on people's fears and is a good media soundbite.

No one says that the government will kill disabled (or elderly) persons directly, but that death will occur as a result of the decisions of cost controlling bureaucrats with the power to determine who can receive various treatments.

Death panels was a 'knick name' for that panel of people in the government who would make those HC decisions for us. Everyone understood that analogy for the term 'death panels'. Why couldn't you?

Well, you give far more credit to people if you think they understood what death panel meant. I know what it meant and what Sarah Palin wanted that statement to do. Incite fear.

Read this slowly. There was nothing in the healthcare bill that allowed the government to make decisions about who gets care and who doesn't. That's called the HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY MAKE THOSE DECISONS. Don't get them confused. The government is we the people and the insurance company is f*** the people.

My 3 adult children are in college right now, and they each are paying for it themselves. They go to the community college and it costs them approx. $3200. a year. 2 are working part time and one full time. My daughter pays her tuition on a monthly basis to the college. They still can afford it. They give me $100. a week room and board, they put some into a savings, and they pay for their own car insurance and gas and cell phones. Community colleges don't offer all the programs and courses that a full university does. I have another son who went to a trade school after college and is paying his loan at $250. a month. A loan backed by the federal government.My daughter had a son and went to college at the same time and held down a full time job, and she paid for it herself! A college education is in EVERYONES reach.No, it is not. So don't go there. The government is NOT needed to get a college education. Hard work and an incentive to better yourself financially is all that is needed. I can't stand it when you liberals feel that if it wasn't for the help that the government provides to you, you'd fall in a hole and never get out!! Anyone making $8-10. an hour can pay for their college tuition, AND an apartment. They may have to forgo thier eating out and movie nights out for a while and get rid of their new car and drive a used one, but they can do it.

That's right, it's the middle and lower classes's extravagant spending that is keeping college out of their reach. If they would just buck up. That is your simplistic solution to everything.

T.E.A. (from their movement) stands for Taxed Enough Already. Well, guess what? These stupid people are paying fewer federal taxes than they ever have in their life. Obama gave 25 TAX CUTS, many of which gave 95% of wage earners a tax cut.

They are not complaining about the taxes they are already paying. They are complaining about the taxes that are yet to come! With all of the spending going on, just where do you think all these trillions of dollars are going to come from? taxes collected from the people. either an outright tax on them, or on big corporations and the rich who will hand the tax over to the consumer in the form of higher prices on all products.(inflation)

So they were protesting about possible taxes in a healthcare bill that wasn't even finalized and that they didn't even know if it would personally affect them? That certainly seems stupid to me.

death panels: THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS in the healthcare bill and Sarah Palin and others know it. But it preys on people's fears and is a good media soundbite.

No one says that the government will kill disabled (or elderly) persons directly, but that death will occur as a result of the decisions of cost controlling bureaucrats with the power to determine who can receive various treatments.

Death panels was a 'knick name' for that panel of people in the government who would make those HC decisions for us. Everyone understood that analogy for the term 'death panels'. Why couldn't you?

The private insurance companies get to make those decisions now! I think I would rather have anyone making it than the profit driven insurance company.

So he went to private schools as did you? Elementary through college right?

I'm talking about his 'college' education.

Community colleges are tax funded. Hmmmmmmm! Somebody else is paying for your kids college. Geeeshhh!

If they went to public elementary and high school someone else paid. If they used public recreation, somone else paid. How come its okay for subsidy for the ones you use but not for the children of the extremely poor? Yep, and I bet your kids making $8 and hour didn't accept any government loans or pell grants to get through school. Of course they could make it on $8 and hour paying $400 per month rent and pay tuition even at a community college or trades school. Right!

Do you people understand what NO MORE government intervention means? We already have enough of it. If we continue to add More and More of it, we will not be able to EVER get out of the debt we are in. I'm not saying that the government should never pay for ANYTHING. Just that they have paid enough already!!!!! Why is it that it's always all or nothing with you people?

Yes. My daughter works as a CNA and brings home $320. a week. She pays 400. a month for rent. She pays 100. a month for her phone. She pays 200. a month for her college. She pays 300. a month for her car expenses. She saves the rest. None of them got any gov. loans or assistance. Even if they did, a loan is paid back. There is no shame in taking a loan out to go to school. A grant is free money that someone else worked for.

Well, you give far more credit to people if you think they understood what death panel meant. I know what it meant and what Sarah Palin wanted that statement to do. Incite fear.

Read this slowly. There was nothing in the healthcare bill that allowed the government to make decisions about who gets care and who doesn't. That's called the HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY MAKE THOSE DECISONS. Don't get them confused. The government is we the people and the insurance company is f*** the people.

That's because it was in the HC public option. When Obama wanted to have the gov. run HC, his plan was to get everyone on this gov. ins. eventually over time. Everyone knows this and I'm not going to go over it again. If everyone were to be on the govs. ins. plan, then they would be the ones running the show at that time.

The private insurance companies get to make those decisions now! I think I would rather have anyone making it than the profit driven insurance company.

If you don't like what your 'private' ins. co. is doing, you can choose a different ins. comapany. Not so with what Obama had planned in the past. Thankfully that will be no more.

So they were protesting about possible taxes in a healthcare bill that wasn't even finalized and that they didn't even know if it would personally affect them? That certainly seems stupid to me.

What is stupid to me is that you seem to think that the government will provide a program that wont cost you or the American people anything or will actually 'save' us money:lol:!

What seems stupid to me is that you're debating yourself. What's up with that?

patty you're telling us that you honestly don't understand how a new way of doing something could save money?

SpaceyCasey: "I am pro-life and would have a baby if I were raped b/c I believe it is life. However, I do not hold it against my friends who have had abortions, and 4 of my very close friends have had them. Thankfully I had a man to marry and hold fast to when we got pregnant.

And I would fight anyone to keep them from forcing you to have an abortion.

Have you thought about what it would be like for you, with your beliefs on abortion, for our government to tell you if you became pregnant, that you had to have an abortion? This is not something I dreamed up. It has actually happened in another country - a country so large that it couldn't feed everyone.

What if we got to the point in the U.S. that we couldn't support or feed people and the government decreed that people could only have one child - and that if you became pregnant with another child, the law required you to have an abortion?

It is for reasons like this that I believe that the government should not be given that kind of power over women, either way. Having babies is too important to us, to our civil liberties, to our freedom and to the very core of our beings, for the government to decide for us, what we must do when it comes to having babies.

Mattie Brinkerhoff in 1869:

"When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society - so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged.""

And I agree with this quote to a certain extent - that we as a people have not made it easy for women to have children and ensure that they will be able to feed, clothe and educate their children.

But there are times when a pregnancy threatens the life of the woman and even though I do not like the idea of abortion, I do believe that women should be able to protect their own lives when they are threatened.

patty said:

"If a drug abuser dies from his drug use, what are we to do? Legalize drugs so he could get them freely and be safe? NO! drugs are a detriment to society and should not be legalized!

I'd wager that guns kill more people annually than drugs, but you want everybody to own guns. And most people don't kill somebody else when they shoot up drugs. When someone shoots a gun they, very often, are killing someone else. Using your logic, if drugs should be outlawed, why not guns?

Do you people understand what NO MORE government intervention means? We already have enough of it. If we continue to add More and More of it, we will not be able to EVER get out of the debt we are in. I'm not saying that the government should never pay for ANYTHING. Just that they have paid enough already!!!!! Why is it that it's always all or nothing with you people?

Yes. My daughter works as a CNA and brings home $320. a week. She pays 400. a month for rent. She pays 100. a month for her phone. She pays 200. a month for her college. She pays 300. a month for her car expenses. She saves the rest. None of them got any gov. loans or assistance. Even if they did, a loan is paid back. There is no shame in taking a loan out to go to school. A grant is free money that someone else worked for.

What she pays all this and has a child and doesn't get a grant? How about child care deduction on income tax? No there is no shame in getting a government subsidized loan and no shame in getting a government grant. The shame is in accepting help that is available but begrudging it for others. I honestly hope your daughter and anyone else's gets anything they are entitled to, I have no problem with it, I do have a problem with hipocracy and greed. I hate hearing people say "the help I am getting is okay, but those other people who might need more help they are just bums. They won't try.They just want a government hand out." It is like as long as you get yours its all good but let the rest root hog or die. Its not a hand out its a hand up Patty. My point is we all accept government subsidies. Most government waste is on the other end. It is in cleaning up the mess.

I always wonder how much the people who make such a big deal out of social programs contribute financially. I pay a lot of taxes and I don't begrudge my money being used wisely to pay for primary care, child care, school grants and loans for those who need it. I do resent having to pay for imprisonment, executions, wars, long term, acute and intensive care services which could have been avoided with primary care and medication not to mention health and sex education and contraception. It really amazes me when it turns out that so many who oppose health care and child care subsidies, and assistance for the poor, along with opposing a womans choice and sex education are on disability benefits. It is just one of those mysteries of life.

I hope my grandkids grow up to be successful and with the same work ethic that I have, yet I also hope that they are caring and compassionate enough to be willing to give a hand up to those who need it. They will probably do just that with a combination of their own resources, help from family and what ever programs they are eligible for. I will certainly do everything I can to cheer them on. We have been fortunate enough to scrape resources together to finish college in our family which included jobs as factory workers and doing housework for others.

While going to graduate school I could not have survived without the VA grant which I had for my tuition even though I worked as a waitress, a tech and as a census taker during this time while raising my daughter. At times I was able to get food stamps though i never qualified for AFDC.

Now students can't get food stamps unless they work full time. There were no child care subsidies back then. Today there is a very limited amount of money available for child care but very very little. It is not available to most who need it and is not sufficient for the few who have it to finish college while they children are cared for. If there is family child care available a single mom has a chance of getting through school but reality is that family care is not always available for whatever reason.

The current system is wasteful, the money is thrown wrecklessly at the wrong things. If you build a shoddy building out of flimsy and flamable materials with poor structual design and engineering and a storm, a fire or an earthquake hits then you are going to have to spend a fortune on clean up and rebuilding. If more money were spent initially on a firm foundation, a sturdy design with good materials which are less flamable the maintainence costs are going to be much less and the building is going to be functional for a long log time. It should last many life times. This is a sound investment which may look frivolous on the front end but it is instead a gift to posterity.

If this works in buildings it most certainly will work with people.