You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

That is your decision of course, but I would seriously reconsider that. Those who reject God will be rejected by him at their death from this human life. People take out life insurance simply to help the ones they love that they leave behind. Likewise, putting your faith in Jesus is life insurance for yourself. We all die someday.

You're trying to scare me into believing in your "loving" god with Pascal's Wager? *lol* Please.

If your oh-so-loving god made me the way i am, planned for me to be this way, and is both omnipotent and omniscient then this is all his fault.

if he then punishes me for doing exactly what he planned for me to do and knew I would do, he's one seriously sadistic bastard who, once again, is entirely unworthy of my attention.

And btw the way, Ms. Green. Pascal's Wager (google it) only works if it's YOUR god you meet in the afterlife. If you meet, say, Allah instead - you're just as screwed as I am.

*LOL*

I do care about the women who get pregnant and don't want to be.

No, you don't. You've made that abundantly clear throughout this thread. I understand why you need to lie to yourself that you do, but it should be clear that the only one who believes this lie is you.

But, like I said, there isn't anything that you can do about it once it's done.

Of course there is. it's called abortion and it's completely legal, completely up to her and none of our business.

There's a baby to consider now. I sympathize with her plight, but what can you do, the life has begun.

And this is how you make it clear you don't give a rat's ass about the women. HER LIFE IS ALREADY ONGOING. But you, of course, don't care about her - only the "baby" that you now want her to be a slave to. A slave in a way that YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE.

You freely admitted you would let another actually living person die because you are not under any obligation to save them. And yet, to you, other women do have that obligation.

When I got pregnant with my first child, I was a teenager and not ready to have a baby, or so I felt. But, there he was. I got ready pretty fast. Life throws a hardball at people sometimes. We just have to adjust. We just can't kill the baby cause we are inconvenienced or traumatized. Nothing justifies it.

You had the freedom to make A CHOICE. but you want no other woman to have that freedom.

You got ready "real fast" (though, of course, all we have is your word on that and frankly, I don't deem you an exactly reliable source of info), so that means all women must do as you did. Because Ms. green is the center of the universe and ruler of all the world, apparently.

ANYONE who would devalue and diminish what a woman goes through when traumatized in favor of making her a slave is a misogynist. Dismissing the choice to have an abortion as choosing "convenience" is yet another example of bigotry toward women.

You're a misogynist, Ms. Green. Plain and simple.

I feel very sad and sorry for you.

Here's what Ms. Green's god says about abortion:

Hosea 9:11-16

Numbers 5:11-21

Numbers 31:17

Hosea 13:16

2 Kings 15:16

Infanticide:

Leviticus 20:9

Judges 11:30-40

Psalms 137:8-9

2 Kings 6:28-29

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Judges 19:24-29

Child abuse:

Genesis 22:9 & 10

I Kings 3:24-25

Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 (lots of ways to beat your children)

Matthew 19:29

Mark 7:9

sounds totally anti-abortion, doesn't he.

patty, you are delusional. Girls are starting their periods younger and younger. I started mine at 11, but my Mom and sister both started theirs at 9. I have also known a lot of girls who started theirs at 7 or 8. It is not uncommon anymore. Also, just because a girl has gone through puberty and has a period does not mean she can become pregnant. It takes about a year after a girl starts her period before her body can actually become pregnant. I know since you are a CNA that you think you know everything about human bodies, but you should really do your research before you post such inaccurate information. Also, like someone else said, the female body is not developed enough to carry a baby below the age of about 19. Just because girls used to have babies at 13 and 14 doesn't mean their bodies were ready. That's one reason why so many girls died in child birth. Actually, a girls body is not even ready for sex until she is about 18 or 19. And that is physically ready, not to mention, she is not even mentally ready for sex and pregnancy. That is a whole other topic.

patty: "If you have had a period and are capable of producing eggs that can be fertilized, then you can give birth to a child. Believe me, if you get pregnant at 12, and allow it to grow for 9 months, a baby will be born. No doubt about it."

Please, please, please stop saying that! I understand the debate that some of you are in right now, but that is such an incredibly false statement that nothing you post after that has any credibility.

There are millions of women who have periods, eggs, fallopian tubes, uteruses (uteri?) and all the proper equipment fully developed and who may even be able to create an environment for one of her eggs to be fertilized by a sperm, but who cannot carry a child nine months, or even if they can, they are never unable to deliver a live baby.

It is the heartbreak of many fine, otherwise healthy women. For you to keep making that statement it is a slap in the face to those who are reading this who haven't been able to sustain a pregnancy and give birth to a baby.

You continually reveal your insensitivity toward women and that you have a false notion that you are knowledgeable about the female reproductive process. Everything you seem to know is guided by a blind, brain-washed, religious thought process. It has made you a hard-hearted person who is ill-equipped to make decisions for other women regarding their reproductive process. This is just the kind of thing that God wants you to become enlightened about. You cannot preach God's love and forgiveness on one hand and discriminate against others, particularly in such a scornful way.

Don't you realize that while reading the Bible can be a good thing, when a person uses the Bible to treat God's children badly, it is not good at all. That is what God wants you to understand. He wants you to help others, not cast them out and blame Him for it.

"The wisdom of man is foolishness in God's eyes." Science also tells us we were decendants of apes. There are alot of things that the so called 'experts' are wrong about. If what they say contradicts God's word, then I don't agree with them.

Also, I went to school. Bible college. I also went to school and took classes in the medical secretarial field as well as getting my CNA certificate. That's about it.

BTW, you talk about me being rude and talking AT you instead of with you, and you don't even see the plank in your own eye. (Before you tell me that I have a stick in my eye, remove the plank from yours.)

Weren't you being condescending when you asked me in a snotty way "did you go to school or did you just sit at home and worship and read the bible?"? You have much to say about how I talk, yet you are far worse.

Also, Even if all I did was sit at home and worship and read the bible, the benefits from doing that would be far greater for me than for someone who never read it and spent 25 years in school!

When I said that I had not been rude to you or anyone else on here...now however you have pissed me off and yes I am being rude!

patty: "If you have had a period and are capable of producing eggs that can be fertilized, then you can give birth to a child. Believe me, if you get pregnant at 12, and allow it to grow for 9 months, a baby will be born. No doubt about it."

Please, please, please stop saying that! I understand the debate that some of you are in right now, but that is such an incredibly false statement that nothing you post after that has any credibility.

There are millions of women who have periods, eggs, fallopian tubes, uteruses (uteri?) and all the proper equipment fully developed and who may even be able to create an environment for one of her eggs to be fertilized by a sperm, but who cannot carry a child nine months, or even if they can, they are never unable to deliver a live baby.

It is the heartbreak of many fine, otherwise healthy women. For you to keep making that statement it is a slap in the face to those who are reading this who haven't been able to sustain a pregnancy and give birth to a baby.

You continually reveal your insensitivity toward women and that you have a false notion that you are knowledgeable about the female reproductive process. Everything you seem to know is guided by a blind, brain-washed, religious thought process. It has made you a hard-hearted person who is ill-equipped to make decisions for other women regarding their reproductive process. This is just the kind of thing that God wants you to become enlightened about. You cannot preach God's love and forgiveness on one hand and discriminate against others, particularly in such a scornful way.

Don't you realize that while reading the Bible can be a good thing, when a person uses the Bible to treat God's children badly, it is not good at all. That is what God wants you to understand. He wants you to help others, not cast them out and blame Him for it.

This is exactly why I am pissed! My first child...our son, I carried him only to 7 months (more or less) and he was pretty much born dead....if I were back in the days of your Jesus both him and I would have died...I also got pregnant again and lost my baby at 5 weeks...maybe instead of using your god you should use your heart and your brain and realize how much you hurt people on here!

I was thinking about you rodriguez when I posted that. I was also thinking about my daughter and so many others who have also had horrible life-threatening experiences relating to childbirth.

When I posted about her statement earlier I tried to give patty the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe she was just in a hurry and hadn't thought about what she was saying. Now I am thinking that it's all evidence to the contrary.

And don’t forget that while men (er, I mean boys) can produce sperm at 11-13 doesn’t mean that they are at all mentally capable of bringing a child into this world. Just the mental capacity of the child (the parent) should be reason enough to make abortion viable not to mention all the horrible medical reasons that have been brought to light here.

Patty has already conceded that when the mother’s life is at risk an abortion may be a viable option. Lets just for the sake of argument say that that narrow allowance is all we have to work with:

1) The medical risk of childbirth is probably far greater than the risk of abortion for a child mother

2) A child mother’s life is essentially over if she gives birth, she will be robbed of her childhood

3) In many cases a child mother is doomed to poverty, poor quality medical care, etc

Too me, those 3 reasons and many others I haven’t even thought off should open Patty’s abortion door a little more. The point is, in this country it can’t be left to religion to decide this issue (or any issue for that matter). The narrow subset of people that feel that it should are on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of our constitution. It is a medical and individual rights issue, nothing more nothing less.

I agree that what patty said was insensitive. My sister has one child. But she has lost 3 babies, including one that was born dead.

Maybe I should have said MOST. Most who have a period at a young age and get pregnant will deliver a baby. Some may have a problem. Also, MOST adults that have a period and get pregnant will have a baby. Some may have a problem. Wow!

How can the wisdom of a reprobate 'culture' be expected to act responsibly when there are no guidelines or absolutes to determine what is right or wrong? Thats why America today is calling evil good and good evil. (isaiah 5:20) As a result, our Nation has moved towards spiritual and moral anarchy while everyone does what is right in his own eyes. (prov. 21:2)

Every 20 seconds a woman demands her 'rights' and a baby is killed in its mothers womb. Whether the baby is burned with saline, ripped limb from limb or sucked out in tiny pieces he or she experiences excrutiating pain. Sorry about the graphics, but that's the truth. No one wants to hear about that. I DO feel sorry for any child who gets raped or has an unwanted pregnancy, but that does not negate how I ALSO feel about the baby in the womb! No matter how much they try to deny it---to themselves and others---every abortion doctor knows a baby suffers when it is killed in the womb. In fact, according to a recent survey of 1000 abortionists, 38 % expressed moral misgivings about the abortion procedure itself.

Patrick Buchanan notes that the equivalent of the population of Australia has been sliced up in the womb and sucked out in a country that endlessly lectures the world on human rights! I agree.

The liberals say"I ammy own law. I decide what is right for me, you decide what is right for you. What's the result? Rampant sexual promiscuity which we accomodate through legalized abortion, permissive sex education, and evermore effective birth preventatives.

Maybe I should have said MOST. Most who have a period at a young age and get pregnant will deliver a baby. Some may have a problem. Also, MOST adults that have a period and get pregnant will have a baby. Some may have a problem. Wow!

It is WOW!!! I think you are mistaken when you say MOST...go to March of Dimes!

How can the wisdom of a reprobate 'culture' be expected to act responsibly when there are no guidelines or absolutes to determine what is right or wrong? Thats why America today is calling evil good and good evil. (isaiah 5:20) As a result, our Nation has moved towards spiritual and moral anarchy while everyone does what is right in his own eyes. (prov. 21:2)

Every 20 seconds a woman demands her 'rights' and a baby is killed in its mothers womb. Whether the baby is burned with saline, ripped limb from limb or sucked out in tiny pieces he or she experiences excrutiating pain. Sorry about the graphics, but that's the truth. No one wants to hear about that. I DO feel sorry for any child who gets raped or has an unwanted pregnancy, but that does not negate how I ALSO feel about the baby in the womb! No matter how much they try to deny it---to themselves and others---every abortion doctor knows a baby suffers when it is killed in the womb. In fact, according to a recent survey of 1000 abortionists, 38 % expressed moral misgivings about the abortion procedure itself.

Patrick Buchanan notes that the equivalent of the population of Australia has been sliced up in the womb and sucked out in a country that endlessly lectures the world on human rights! I agree.

The liberals say"I ammy own law. I decide what is right for me, you decide what is right for you. What's the result? Rampant sexual promiscuity which we accomodate through legalized abortion, permissive sex education, and evermore effective birth preventatives.

Did you know that God "aborts" so many babies that a lot of women never even realize they were pregnant!!!!

The supreme court is not the supreme authority for christians. Let's remember that they can be wrong. In the Dred Scott decision in 1857, they said that slaves weren't people. They can't tell us what is right and wrong. They can only give us nine lawyers opinions about what's legal and what's illegal, and that's a far cry from what is right and wrong. Still, we have to live with the results. (or die from them, as the babies do)