Let the Joyous news be spread: New Jersey votes yes on Gay civil union!

carol134 · October 27, 2006

Well your a smart man from reading your post and I'm sure you will figure it out.

Anyway this banana is going to split....

carol134 · October 27, 2006

If you cite only the New Testament, you won't find the Ten Commandments either. They are part of the Old Testament. The New Testament begins with the gospel of Matthew - long after the days of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
I'm not trying to complicate anything. I'm just pointing out that you can't have it both ways. If you throw out the Old Testament, the Ten Commandments get thrown out with it.

Many fundamentalists (and I'm not suggesting that you are one of them) like to pick phrases out of the Bible willy nilly, and quote them to reinforce their own particular brand of Christianity. A little from the Old Testament, a bit from the new....kind of like a scripture buffet. I think that's totally unfair...and illogical.

Of course I would like to see a world without cheating, lying, abuse, etc. Unfortunately, that world does not exist this side of heaven. Nor could it, by God's own design. We all missed the boat on paradise (damn that Eve!). So now we have to content ourselves with doing the best we can, and that means taking personal responsibility not to cheat, lie, steal, etc. And praying for others, including those who fall short of God's grace.

May the peace and love and fellowship of Christ be with you all.

IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WE PUT ALL OUR HOPES AND DREAMS

KariK · October 28, 2006

Hmm when I read the bible I see 10 commandments. The number of verses don't confuse me at all. I guess we just see things differantly TOM . I think its pointless to argue about numbers, whats important is the message. Wether you want to get the message from 10 commandments or 22 verses or whatever, matters little to me. I have a great feeling about my own understanding of right and wrong in terms of religion, morals, family, God, etc. I have a blessed life. I try to do my best in everything I do. If in the end it doesn't measure up on judgment day.. I won't know until I get there.

Carlene · October 28, 2006

I have a great feeling about my own understanding of right and wrong in terms of religion, morals, family, God, etc. I have a blessed life.

Me, too Kari...

My faith has sustained me thru so many times of sorrow and uncertainty. I truly do not know how anyone survives this life without it.

Sunta · October 28, 2006

Today I will execute anyone who curses.

carol134 · October 28, 2006

Hey there's a good reason why you should read the New Testament, that does not apply today, (being executed for cursing)

Why try to make a joke of my beliefs? I never joked of your infinite grace through the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Carlene · October 28, 2006

Hey there's a good reason why you should read the New Testament, that does not apply today, (being executed for cursing)
Why try to make a joke of my beliefs? I never joked of your infinite grace through the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I did not take offense at Sunta's post. I do not think it was mean-spirited, nor do I believe that religion is without humor. For those who never saw this old chestnut, here is a letter purportedly sent to Dr. Laura, after one of her famous gay-bashing broadcasts.

And for those who aren't familiar with Dr. Laura, she is Jewish. Jews follow the Old Testament. Orthodox Jews follow it so closely that they are obliged to "keep kosher", meaning two sets of dishes, two sets of pots and pans, running the dishwasher (empty) between loads of dishes/utensils used for "dairy" and those reserved for meat, and a whole host of other very, very rigorous rules. These people are SERIOUS about following their "bible".

I have a friend whose sister is Jewish. That's where I first read the Dr. Laura letter - courtesy of my friend's Jewish sister.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

green · October 28, 2006

Hey there's a good reason why you should read the New Testament, that does not apply today, (being executed for cursing)
Why try to make a joke of my beliefs? I never joked of your infinite grace through the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

We must remember that Jesus was a good Jew and respected the tradition and teachings of His tribe. There are a number of places in the New Testament where He states that the Covenant of the Old Testament must be upheld.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets." Matthew 5:17 NAB

"...the scripture cannot be broken." John 10:35

See also Luke 16:17 ("...not an iota, not a dot....")

This would indicate to me that the attentive Christian cannot cherrypick his or her way through the Bible. Much of the Old Testament is hard slogging, steeped in violence and revenge.

The Commandments, which we have boiled down to ten, seem to me to be a fine set of laws, ones that are designed to keep the peace within a settlement of people. They would be particularly needed in those violent times.

carol134 · October 28, 2006

But the Old Testament is not the way you can realistically live....it is the New that applies.

I only thought that comment was a little facetious

carol134 · October 28, 2006

I am not "cherry picking"it is not something I intend to do. If just one person, including myself can live by the New Testament (the one instructed by God) we could all give this discussion up and live in peace and hormony. The old testament has been revised for this very reason for pete's sake.

green · October 28, 2006

Jesus clearly states that the Old Covenant must be upheld, that it, too, "was instructed by God": see also Matthew 5:18-19 RSV. This does raise difficulties for Christians of course because the Old Testament is not particularly user-friendly for modern times. I imagine that Christian scholars may have figured out some kind of compromise between the two halves of the Sacred Text. I myself would be curious to learn how they have resolved this issue.

I know that when I was at school the nuns merely told us to "be nice," follow the Ten Commandments, say the Lord's Prayer, go to church, and pray. It was much later in life that I began to realise that the Bible is a complicated and often somber text.

Carlene · October 28, 2006

I am not "cherry picking"it is not something I intend to do. If just one person, including myself can live by the New Testament (the one instructed by God) we could all give this discussion up and live in peace and hormony. The old testament has been revised for this very reason for pete's sake.

Okay...let's talk about the New Testament.

First of all, do you know its history? Many Protestants do not realize that the New Testament they cherish so was given to them by a Pope - the holy and wise Spaniard Pope St. Damasus, in the council of Rome. It is the same collection of books used in all Protestant Bibles today.

So, how do you feel about divorce? The Old Testament permitted it, the NT does not (unless a woman commits adultery). The NT says a man who divorces his wife (or vice versa) and remarries commits adultery. Anyone in your congregation living in adultery?

Do you cover your head when you pray? Cut your hair? The NT says "But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.

But it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved and she should wear a veil."

Here's a nice little piece of news for those of us who like a little white Zen...

"Stop drinking only Water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." (cough...cough)

Slavery is okay, according to the NT...

"Slaves are to be under the control of their masters in all respects, giving them satisfaction, not talking back to them".

Back to us women...

"Similarly, too, women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes."

(Please PM me for my address so you may send me all your gold ornaments, pearls, and expensive clothes.)

"A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet."

(yeah....when hell freezes over)

And finally, from St. Paul...

"Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth and that they may return to their senses out of the devil's snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will."

This is just a very small sampling of the New Testament's teachings that you might not like/agree with. However, if you are going to embrace the NT, you have to embrace it ALL - otherwise you ARE "cherry picking".

MrD · October 28, 2006

Hey carol134, if you are such a believer in what the bible say's, do you think your icon should shaking her junk all over the place like that?

Carlene · October 28, 2006

Hey carol134, if you are such a believer in what the bible say's, do you think your icon should shaking her junk all over the place like that?

Someone already pointed that out. And Carole said you do not have to be boring to be a Christian. I agree...but the "proper conduct, modesty and self-control" thing has me a little confused.