This a simple poll. I am not trying to start any kind of philosophical debate here.

There is no need to qualify you answer with a comment. I don't expect anyone to be converted here.

I have tried to keep this short and inoffensive. If you are offended, get therapy immediately.

I am a catholic and I think the pope ought to resign. I never really liked him before he became pope, and now even less so.

The catholic church has lost its moral authority with this issue which certainly didn't start these past few weeks.

The sin of the abuse, the cover ups and the denials are absolutely outrageous and I am furious about it.

I make up my own mind about what I choose to believe when it comes to faith and religion and I will decide how to interpret the bible. The church will not tell me what to believe. They have zero credibilty. And I am absolutely appalled at the depth to which they are going to circle the wagons around the pope. The buck stops with him now and especially when he was an archbishop overseeing this.

Here is a new one for you..this is the strangest defense of bad behavior I have ever heard.

"Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher on Friday likened accusations against the pope and the Catholic church in the sex abuse scandal to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews." See link to full article below.

So the priest molests children, the church covers it up and when the church gets called on the carpet for it, the people who are outraged by this cover up are acting anti-Semitic? What?!?

Pope's Preacher: Abuse Critique Like Anti-Semitism - AOL News

Unbelievable, isn't it? They called it collective violence? like the Jews suffered? The only difference is the Jews never did anything to be deserving of the violence that they endured. (not that anyone deserves violence, but just saying)

The coverup of such crimes is an outright disgust. Especially from men who are supposed to be an example to the people they teach.

I got this in an e-mail....... don't know if it is a true story, but goes with this thread ............just an e-mail thing

Atheist Holy Day

Florida Court Sets Atheist Holy Day! Gotta’ love this Judge! You must read this.......a proper decision by the courts...for a change.

FLORIDA COURT SETS ATHEIST HOLY DAY in Florida, an atheist created a case against Easter and Passover Holy days. He hired an attorney to bring a discrimination case against Christians and Jews and observances of their holy days. The argument was that it was unfair that atheists had no such recognized days. The case was brought before a judge. After listening to the passionate presentation by the lawyer, the judge banged his gavel declaring, “Case dismissed!" The lawyer immediately stood objecting to the ruling saying, "Your honor, How can you possibly dismiss this case? The Christians have Christmas, Easter and others. The Jews have Passover, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah, yet my client and all other atheists have no such holidays...” The judge leaned forward in his chair saying, "But you do. Your client, counsel, is woefully ignorant." The lawyer said, "Your Honor, we are unaware of any special observance or holiday for atheists." The judge said, "The calendar says April 1st is April Fools Day. Psalm 14:1 states, 'The fool says in his heart, there is no God.' Thus, it is the opinion of this court, that, if your client says there is no God, then he is a fool. Therefore, April 1st is his day. Court is adjourned...” You gotta’ love a Judge that knows his scripture!

I am a catholic and I think the pope ought to resign. I never really liked him before he became pope, and now even less so.

The catholic church has lost its moral authority with this issue which certainly didn't start these past few weeks.

The sin of the abuse, the cover ups and the denials are absolutely outrageous and I am furious about it.

I make up my own mind about what I choose to believe when it comes to faith and religion and I will decide how to interpret the bible. The church will not tell me what to believe. They have zero credibilty. And I am absolutely appalled at the depth to which they are going to circle the wagons around the pope. The buck stops with him now and especially when he was an archbishop overseeing this.

I thought the pope spoke for God. He was God's prophet to the the people. If that's what they believe, which is what I think they do, then this right there tells you somebodies got it wrong.

People get messed up with 'religion' when they start taking "man's" word for truth. The bible says "Do not be deceived, every man is a liar." When people start putting their faith and trust in a man, who is no less human than the rest of us, and ignore God himself who gave us his book to hear from him, then they will be led astray.

I thought the pope spoke for God. He was God's prophet to the the people. If that's what they believe, which is what I think they do, then this right there tells you somebodies got it wrong.

People get messed up with 'religion' when they start taking "man's" word for truth. The bible says "Do not be deceived, every man is a liar." When people start putting their faith and trust in a man, who is no less human than the rest of us, and ignore God himself who gave us his book to hear from him, then they will be led astray.

The catholic church believes the pope is infallible, which I do not believe. I think this current scandal supports my view.

I got this in an e-mail....... don't know if it is a true story, but goes with this thread ............just an e-mail thing

Atheist Holy Day

Florida Court Sets Atheist Holy Day! Gotta’ love this Judge! You must read this.......a proper decision by the courts...for a change.

FLORIDA COURT SETS ATHEIST HOLY DAY in Florida, an atheist created a case against Easter and Passover Holy days. He hired an attorney to bring a discrimination case against Christians and Jews and observances of their holy days. The argument was that it was unfair that atheists had no such recognized days. The case was brought before a judge. After listening to the passionate presentation by the lawyer, the judge banged his gavel declaring, “Case dismissed!" The lawyer immediately stood objecting to the ruling saying, "Your honor, How can you possibly dismiss this case? The Christians have Christmas, Easter and others. The Jews have Passover, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah, yet my client and all other atheists have no such holidays...” The judge leaned forward in his chair saying, "But you do. Your client, counsel, is woefully ignorant." The lawyer said, "Your Honor, we are unaware of any special observance or holiday for atheists." The judge said, "The calendar says April 1st is April Fools Day. Psalm 14:1 states, 'The fool says in his heart, there is no God.' Thus, it is the opinion of this court, that, if your client says there is no God, then he is a fool. Therefore, April 1st is his day. Court is adjourned...” You gotta’ love a Judge that knows his scripture!

According to snopes.com it is false.

Well Chris some churches are not motivated by goodness and they are do not contribute to the overall good of mankind.

See Leigh's post about the scrambling the church is doing trying to divert attention away from the Pope's behavior before he became Pope. If they made a clean brest of things and offered up the perps for prosecution and made restitution to the individuals who were abused, then they would be contributing to the overall good. Oh yeah, and if they made absolutely sure none of their priests ever abused children again that would help.

Well Chris some churches are not motivated by goodness and they are do not contribute to the overall good of mankind.

See Leigh's post about the scrambling the church is doing trying to divert attention away from the Pope's behavior before he became Pope. If they made a clean brest of things and offered up the perps for prosecution and made restitution to the individuals who were abused, then they would be contributing to the overall good. Oh yeah, and if they made absolutely sure none of their priests ever abused children again that would help.

You mean "if they became born again". This is the only thing that you must do during your stay on this planet - the only thing you must do. You don't even have to grow up. You don't have to succeed. You don't have to get married. You don't have to have children. You don't have to have a home, a car, and all of the things people think they must have. The only thing that you must have is a rebirth, because your entire future depends upon it.

You mean "if they became born again". This is the only thing that you must do during your stay on this planet - the only thing you must do. You don't even have to grow up. You don't have to succeed. You don't have to get married. You don't have to have children. You don't have to have a home, a car, and all of the things people think they must have. The only thing that you must have is a rebirth, because your entire future depends upon it.

So that is why its OK with you, since these priests became "born again" its OK with God that they molest little kids? Do you ever even think about what you are saying?

So that is why its OK with you, since these priests became "born again" its OK with God that they molest little kids? Do you ever even think about what you are saying?

Yes. I think about what I am saying and I know about what I am saying.

Where do you get off saying that "it's OK with me"? I NEVER said it was OK with me. No exceptions. I never said it was OK with God, even if they are born again. It is never OK. I was pointing out that "if" they became born again, they would then receive God's forgiveness. Sin is never OK, but it is forgiven by God. ANY sin.

The "solution" to their sin is "if they become born again". The problem with these priests is that some of them are NOT born again and need to be. There are plenty of people who are in positions in a church (even high positions) and believe that it is their 'key' to heaven and it's not.

Well thank goodness you're here to tell the Pope what he must do to get into heaven. I hope you're corresponding with him as we speak.

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7 15-20

Well thank goodness you're here to tell the Pope what he must do to get into heaven. I hope you're corresponding with him as we speak.

The Pope is a human being just like me or you. He has no special priviledges or place in God's heart that God doesn't have for every person. All must have faith in Jesus to be saved, even him. There are many who are in a place of honor, as far as the people are concerned, who are not in a place of honor according to God.

Anyone who sets him or herself up as one who knows everything about God's will and plan is someone whose words cannot be trusted. And the more they proclaim that they have the formula that trumps all other religions and churches, the more they need to learn about humanity, life, peace and happiness.

I'm not a genius but these things are obvious to people who have learned that they don't know everything and who are willing to continue to seek enlightenment and knowledge that goes far beyond the endoctrination of conventional religious teachings.

Anyone who sets him or herself up as one who knows everything about God's will and plan is someone whose words cannot be trusted. And the more they proclaim that they have the formula that trumps all other religions and churches, the more they need to learn about humanity, life, peace and happiness.

I'm not a genius but these things are obvious to people who have learned that they don't know everything and who are willing to continue to seek enlightenment and knowledge that goes far beyond the endoctrination of conventional religious teachings.

Who said I know everything? I have been an avid studier of God's word for over 25 years, and have gone to bible school. I would qualify myself as someone who is well versed in his word. But, everything, no. I am still delving into the bible on a daily basis and learning more and more every time I read it. So, if that's what you thought about me, you are mistaken. I am constantly learning everytime I pick up the book. As for "having the formula", as you call it, I will not back down on that. I DO have the "formula". Jesus said," I am the way and the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but through me." Period.

Anyone can know God's will and plan. He reveals them to us in his word. None of it is a secret to those who desire to search for it in the scriptures. He wants us to know his will and plans. So, when I tell you that I know something, it is because I read it in the bible, or the principle is taught in there.

Also, I was never "indoctrinated" by conventional religious teachings. I've been indoctrinated by the bible, which are God's words to mankind. Nothing more.