So with the New Health Care Reform passed through the House. Who is for or against it?? Why or why not?

I am not in favor. My opinion (whether it's right or wrong) is why should we pay for the people who are too lazy to get a job just so they can have health insurance? Now it's different if they are disabled and unable to work. But these people who won't get off their butts to get a job shouldn't get subsidized health care that we, tax payers, are paying for!

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by TN_girl21

I, personally, witnessed him speaking during his early campaigning days on TV say that it would take about 12 years or so to complete his plan of government insurance for all. After the slack he started to get he changed it to a public "option". He then started to say you can still keep your own doctor, etc. He didn't dare let the people know at that time what his 'true' goal was. Government run HI for ALL.

How do you expect that other HI companies will be able to stay in business and make a profit with a government run HI company competing with them and not concerned about profits at all. Be realistic! They won't be able to. I had a daycare at one time. In order to make more money in the long run, I started out charging moms the lowest rate in town. My business picked up dramatically. Others had to lower their rates to compete with me. Imagine if I wasn't concerned about making a profit? The other daycares in town would have lost their kids to me if there wasn't a cap on how many I could care for at one time.

It's only a matter of time before the government run public option would be the ONLY option. Obama knows it, Congress knows it and anyone with a thinking brain could see it down the road. Now, How is that competition? How is that "You can keep your insurance you have now if you like it?" And why do they 'deserve to go out of business' if they don't come down on their premiums and lose their own profit? And when they put all the other HI companies out of business and expand, like you say, who will pay those government employees salaries and government extravagant benefits and pensions? Who? The government already has more than enough people on their payroll. We can't afford it!

The plan being debated is not about a government take over. That is a right wing lie that just keeps being repeated:

Check out the facts:

PolitiFact | Obama health plan does not call for government-run health care

Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't let facts deter you. If the CBO says the plan won't raise the deficit, they are lying, etc..

And I really couldn't care less if the greedy health insurance industry that makes the wall street banking CEO's look like angels goes out of business because it has some healthy competition. Yeah, that's right, lower the premiums, pay for claims and reduce profits. If you can't keep up then go out of business. In many states only one or two companies have a monopoly on the majority of health policies. Where's the competition? That's not healthy for us consumers. We need choice & competition.

Another link:

Government-Run Health Care? | FactCheck.org

The majority of the "42 million" americans without insurance are in the 18-34 age bracket. People of this range are usually in good health

Yes, they were left wing and they were radical in that they wanted change and they hated bush. So do I. He was the worst president in history. He was stupid, ill-spoken, unwilling to admit mistakes, responsible for an unjustified war costing 4000+ lives and a trillion dollars adding to out debt, the deregulation of wall street resulting in the financial crisis of 2008 and the rise in unemployment (rose all through 2008 and is continuing), infringing on our freedoms (wireless wire taps), illegal foreign prisons, torture, ignoring Katrina victims, and ignoring clean energy, global warming, and last but not least - healthcare.

Now we have brains back in the White House and a president who is willing to tackle all these tough issues - the solutions often being tough but necessary. He has already said that if he is a one term president because he is willing to do what it takes to clean up bush's messes, then so be it. And if people want to protest him, they have that right. But don't tell me it's about healthcare or spending or the deficit. It's about Obama and wanting him to fail. Period.

:rolleyes:Of course it's about Obama and wanting him to fail.

You know, that's the excuse every liberal has for the opponent. It can't be that we just disapprove of his doings. It must be that we are haters or racists.:thumbup: No one wants Obama to fail, for that would mean our country would fail right along with him. Come on! I understand that Bush caused alot of debt, and I think that all the government spending is out of hand, BUT, In just 11 months of his presidency he has spent MORE , do you hear me? More than ALL,(yes, all, including Bush) the presidents put together since George Washington!!!!!!!!!! He seems to have no concern for our debt whatsoever.

As a Christian how can anyone be against a healthcare system that provides care for all Americans. Our curent health care system is based on ability to pay. Over 42 million Americans+ have no health insurance. So some say thats fair,I say its inhumane. People die everyday in this country because of this cast system of healthcare delivery.I am ashamed that our country continues to treat the least of our brothers in this matter. YES I work with the uninsured everyday so YES I see peole everyday struggling to pay for life saving medications like Plavix and everyday I see the results of not being able to fill even half of a prescription. Glen Beck and others have convinced many that public clinics care for the uninsured, the truth is that they provide patch work healthcare. The doctors there will tell you if you inquire that they can identify that someone might have cancer,but there are no funds to provide testing or advanced treatment many of them need to survive.:thumbup:

Larraine, I want affordable health care for all Americans. I don't want our government to be that insurance company. The government has the power to make laws and they should enforce these laws that they can make on private insurance companies. They should drop the law that states you can't cross state lines for medical insurance because that would encourage competition between states. They should enforce tort reform, because that would stop all trial lawyers from making these multi million dollar cases. There should be caps on ins. payouts. Then doctors wont have to perform unneccessary tests just to cover their butts should someone choose to sue them. They should make it a law that noone can be denied health coverage or pay a higher premium because of pre-existing conditions. There are many ways to enforce the private insurance industries to comply. They don't want to do this because the lawyers and the insurance companies are lining these politicians pockets to keep the laws from ruining their greedy wealth. Maybe they could make a law that puts a cap on insurance premiums. If you don't have the ability to pay for ins., then you can apply for medicaid, which is government ins. that is already set up for those who can't afford to pay. The gov. can simply raise the income guidelines for people who can't get on it because they are borderline income and don't meet the eligibility. God wants us to be good stewards with our money and the government has shown us many times over that they can't be. When the government runs something, they don't have a care about waste. It's not coming from their pocket, so why should they care? Just look at medicare or social security, both are bankrupt. So, as a christian, it's not that I am against helping the unfortunate that don't have insurance, for I do want help for them. Jesus said, "The poor you will always have with you." What about the 450,000 who die every year from tobacco, should we help them, how about the hundreds of thousands who die every year from alcohol, should we help them? This list could go on and on forever, but you get my point. The government should not be in the business of social wellness. Roosevelt did a bad thing when he started welfare in the government. Handouts in the government far exceed what the people here can afford. If the gov. stopped giving away all our money, then we would have more for our own health care and living exenses and will be able to give to the charities of our choosing. We wouldn't be indentured servants to China and other countries either. Your great grandchildren will be paying for their deeds in the future.

First Not every one will qualify for Medicaid. So I guess they just accept their fate and die..........

I as a christian have known forever that the uninsured die each day in this country. Its discussed very litely in this country because most think that things like this happen in 3rd world countries only! OPEN YOUR EYES !Turn off Glen and Rush reasearch it your self

:rolleyes:Of course it's about Obama and wanting him to fail.

You know, that's the excuse every liberal has for the opponent. It can't be that we just disapprove of his doings. It must be that we are haters or racists.:thumbup: No one wants Obama to fail, for that would mean our country would fail right along with him. Come on! I understand that Bush caused alot of debt, and I think that all the government spending is out of hand, BUT, In just 11 months of his presidency he has spent MORE , do you hear me? More than ALL,(yes, all, including Bush) the presidents put together since George Washington!!!!!!!!!! He seems to have no concern for our debt whatsoever.

When republican Jim DeMint said "If we can stop this healthcare it will be Obama's Waterloo. It will break him." - What did that have to do with the american people or helping them or having any other agenda other than wanting Obama to fail? Ditto when rush limbaugh said he wanted Obama to fail.

It was personal - and that sentiment is echoed with those who only found their voice after Obama became president.

What does Obama as Hitler or the Joker or those racists sayings have to do with healthcare, spending or the debt? Nothing. But it has everything to do with Obama.

Remember that the republicans aren't just against this healthcare reform. They also voted against expanding SCHIP - the healthcare program for children. Now, regardless of what you think about the parents of those children - the children are innocent and deserve to get healthcare - but the heartless republicans didn't think so. So much for family values!!! Again - I repeat my mantra "If it weren't for hyprocrisy the republicans would have nothing."

As to those thousands who die every year from tobacco use and abuse of alcohol - I am not going to shed any tears for those who make a conscious decision to poison their body and refuse to do anything to quit. That is in stark contrast to those, who through NO fault of their own (unemployed, lost job, can't afford...) don't have healthcare insurance and die as a result. That should never happen in a country like ours. Period.

First Not every one will qualify for Medicaid. So I guess they just accept their fate and die..........

My plan was for the gov. to raise the income eligibility for people. Then those who are borderline income could get on it. And those who make enough money to purchase HI yet choose to spend their 'extra' cash on a new car or TV instead will go without due to their own choice.

When republican Jim DeMint said "If we can stop this healthcare it will be Obama's Waterloo. It will break him." - What did that have to do with the american people or helping them or having any other agenda other than wanting Obama to fail? Ditto when rush limbaugh said he wanted Obama to fail.

Just because he made that comment doesn't mean he wants him to fail. It meant that because Obama put so much effort into socializing this country, and if he didn't get his plan through, he may feel his whole agenda failed, or his 'waterloo'. Being the president is more than just a focus on health care. Ever since he got in, this has been his top priority, yet most Americans don't want it. (A gov. run plan I mean, not reform) Rush has repeatedly stated what he meant when he said he wanted Obama to fail. He wanted his plan of making this Nation into a socialized country to not work (or fail). Everyone understands what he meant, except for the far left democratic liberals, cause THEY WANT TO BELIEVE he said he wanted Obama to be a failure.

It was personal - and that sentiment is echoed with those who only found their voice after Obama became president.

What does Obama as Hitler or the Joker or those racists sayings have to do with healthcare, spending or the debt? Nothing. But it has everything to do with Obama.

Hitler wanted to have control. Therefore, they called Obama a name like 'Hitler' to voice their anger at his socializing views. The Joker is just that. A Joke. Obama's plans and agenda are a joke to most Americans. I'm not saying their way of protesting was right, but they have a right to do it here just like the Dems did when they marched with Nazi signs in Bush's day. I saw one sign where Bush had his head around a noose and it said KILL BUSH. Now, it wasn't right, but it didn't make them racists or haters. People often take out their anger and frustrations over politics and leaders and their policies they are trying to enforce in the only way that they have the freedom to do so, in their speech. I never saw any racist sayings on posters, and if there were, I would not condone that. Nor would I condone a spanish or black man calling Bush a racial name.

Remember that the republicans aren't just against this healthcare reform. They also voted against expanding SCHIP - the healthcare program for children. Now, regardless of what you think about the parents of those children - the children are innocent and deserve to get healthcare - but the heartless republicans didn't think so. So much for family values!!! Again - I repeat my mantra "If it weren't for hyprocrisy the republicans would have nothing."

As to those thousands who die every year from tobacco use and abuse of alcohol - I am not going to shed any tears for those who make a conscious decision to poison their body and refuse to do anything to quit. That is in stark contrast to those, who through NO fault of their own (unemployed, lost job, can't afford...) don't have healthcare insurance and die as a result. That should never happen in a country like ours. Period.

If 45,000 of the 406 million people that live here ( a tiny fraction) die each year because they don't have HI, that is a sad reality. Just like the sad reality of the million who die each year from abortions, and the small fraction of people who die each year from cancer and the tiny fraction of the 406 million who die each year from child abuse, and on and on I could go. People die, it's a fact. But for the federal government to bankrupt us and cause our freedoms and rights to be taken away to help this small fraction of people by allowing the country to have that kind of control over our health is an infringment on all peoples freedoms and rights. They can help that small fraction by raising the income guidelines for medicaid, so that those who are uninsured can get on it. There is no need to overhaul the whole insurance industry to get their goal accomplished. They are not introducing a HC public option to help that small fraction of Americans, they are doing it to get ALL americans on their HC plan eventually after they knock all other Health insurance carriers out of business with their not for profit public plan. Their goal as I have said is to be the ONLY plan available, than after that they can control everything else about the people. What you can eat or not. High taxes on potato chips and soda because they're not healthy for you. "Hey, the government has to pay your health bills, so they have the right to tell you what you can and can't put into your body ya know." They can decide who will get that hip replacement and who will get the heart transplant, the young healthy man or the elderly, on his way out anyway guy. The whole thing is not about health REFORM, but about control.

If 45,000 of the 406 million people that live here ( a tiny fraction) die each year because they don't have HI, that is a sad reality. Just like the sad reality of the million who die each year from abortions, and the small fraction of people who die each year from cancer and the tiny fraction of the 406 million who die each year from child abuse, and on and on I could go. People die, it's a fact. But for the federal government to bankrupt us and cause our freedoms and rights to be taken away to help this small fraction of people by allowing the country to have that kind of control over our health is an infringment on all peoples freedoms and rights. They can help that small fraction by raising the income guidelines for medicaid, so that those who are uninsured can get on it. There is no need to overhaul the whole insurance industry to get their goal accomplished. They are not introducing a HC public option to help that small fraction of Americans, they are doing it to get ALL americans on their HC plan eventually after they knock all other Health insurance carriers out of business with their not for profit public plan. Their goal as I have said is to be the ONLY plan available, than after that they can control everything else about the people. What you can eat or not. High taxes on potato chips and soda because they're not healthy for you. "Hey, the government has to pay your health bills, so they have the right to tell you what you can and can't put into your body ya know." They can decide who will get that hip replacement and who will get the heart transplant, the young healthy man or the elderly, on his way out anyway guy. The whole thing is not about health REFORM, but about control.

You are just plain wrong. I posted the links from factcheck.org and another fact check site that explicitly says that it is not the intent for the goverment to take over all healthcare. But you keep on saying it, even though it is only your opinion and NOT FACT. Please present it as opinion and not fact.

The public option would be available to about 2% of the people who currently don't have insurance. I believe they are lowering the income eligibility for medicaid. And the one house amendment would keep children on their parent's policy until age 27.

The government does have a healthcare plan that they run. It is called medicare. And the people who are on it are happy with it. They don't want it taken away.

When social security, civil rights, medicare and medicaid were passed they were strongly opposed, and heavily criticized but now they are popular government programs assimilated into our society. And health care reform with a public option will be, too, someday.

The southern whites opposed civil rights. It turned the souther democrats (dixiecrats) into today's republicans. So, by enacting civil rights, the democrats lost the south. But it was the right thing to do.

And if democrats lose seats in the 2010 and 2012 election because they passed healthcare reform, then so be it. Sometimes there is a price to pay for doing the right thing.

And I have not seen one freedom or right being taken away by this administration. Under bush, warrantless wiretapping was a violation of my constitutional freedoms, but under Pres. Obama - I still have the same freedoms and rights I have always had. I have freedom of religion, speech, the right to own a gun, protest, a fair trial, vote, etc.. I don't know what freedoms or rights you're talking about.

But with these freedoms comes responsibilites, too. Paying taxes is one of them. Being required to have car insurance if you own a car is another. Maintaining your property if you're a homeowner. These are the things we do in a civilized society.

And you will never convince me that rush limbaugh who cheered that Obama lost the bid for the Olympics which would have been great for America and who said he wanted Obama to fail doesn't salivate at every perceived slip or failure on Obama's part. Same with that Senator DeMint. The republicans want Obama to fail so that they can get back in power. That is their ONLY goal. They couldn't give a rat's patuty about the American people.

You are just plain wrong. I posted the links from factcheck.org and another fact check site that explicitly says that it is not the intent for the goverment to take over all healthcare.

Of course the government will tell you that it is not their intent or goal to be the ONLY HC choice eventually. They know that if they told people that that was their end goal, the people would freak. Since when do we believe what they say?

But you keep on saying it, even though it is only your opinion and NOT FACT. Please present it as opinion and not fact.

Any intelligent person can figure out what will happen if all the Health Ins. Companies had to compete against a HC plan that isn't concerned with making a profit and has the lowest premiums out there. No fact is needed.

The public option would be available to about 2% of the people who currently don't have insurance.

No. The public option will be for anyone who wants to choose it. And who wouldn't? At first, It will be the best plan for the least amount of money. Then when it has everyone hooked, it will have such an overhead expense because of all the new government jobs it will have to employ to handle all the participants, the premiums will rise to be able to pay them all along with their GRAND federal benefits and pensions and perks that will go along with the jobs. It will end up costing us trillions and trillions and believe me, it WILL increase the deficit!

I believe they are lowering the income eligibility for medicaid. And the one house amendment would keep children on their parent's policy until age 27.

The government does have a healthcare plan that they run. It is called medicare. And the people who are on it are happy with it. They don't want it taken away.

I'm all for HC reform, just NOT a government run public option.

When social security, civil rights, medicare and medicaid were passed they were strongly opposed, and heavily criticized but now they are popular government programs assimilated into our society. And health care reform with a public option will be, too, someday.

They're also BANKRUPT!!!!!!! (BTW what does civil rights have to do with what we're talking about? It's not a program)

The southern whites opposed civil rights. It turned the souther democrats (dixiecrats) into today's republicans. So, by enacting civil rights, the democrats lost the south. But it was the right thing to do.

And if democrats lose seats in the 2010 and 2012 election because they passed healthcare reform, then so be it. Sometimes there is a price to pay for doing the right thing. Who says it's the right thing? You? What about those who feel it's wrong? Where in the constitution does it say that socialized healthcare is your ' right.' This government was set up by our founding fathers to be a free enterprise. You are free to pursue all that this land has to offer you and to work and get educated and succeed in anything you desire. HC is not a right. It's something that people, unless handicapped or too ill to work need to purchase just like food and shelter. It's not anyones 'right' in this country to go to bed fed and it's not anyones 'right' to have shelter. It's only your 'right' to be free to pursue those things. It's noones 'right' to take your money and hand it out to others as they seem fit. That's called stealing!

And I have not seen one freedom or right being taken away by this administration. Under bush, warrantless wiretapping was a violation of my constitutional freedoms, but under Pres. Obama - I still have the same freedoms and rights I have always had. I have freedom of religion, speech, the right to own a gun, protest, a fair trial, vote, etc.. I don't know what freedoms or rights you're talking about. When the government takes your money and gives it to their trillions of dollars worth of projects, that's your 'right' being taken away. If they say you will be taxed higher for things like soda, that's your 'right' to choose what you want to drink being taken away, and if you choose soda, you will pay in higher prices as a "punishment" for your bad eating choice. I don't need a Government parent. It is your right to decide for yourself if you want to purchase HI or not. With this bill you will be fined or imprisoned if you don't.

But with these freedoms comes responsibilites, too. Paying taxes is one of them. Being required to have car insurance if you own a car is another. Maintaining your property if you're a homeowner. These are the things we do in a civilized society. If You hit someone with your car and injure them, the ins. you are required to purchase will pay your damages. without it, the other person may suffer a loss. If you choose not to purchase HI, you can't see a doctor, and if you do, you will get a bill for it. It doesn't or shouldn't hurt anyone but yourself.

And you will never convince me that rush limbaugh who cheered that Obama lost the bid for the Olympics which would have been great for America and who said he wanted Obama to fail doesn't salivate at every perceived slip or failure on Obama's part. Same with that Senator DeMint. So what if they do. Who cares really?

The republicans want Obama to fail so that they can get back in power. That is their ONLY goal. They couldn't give a rat's patuty about the American people.

There is no doubt that they want to be back in the office. The dems and the reps differ so much on what they feel is fair and moral and constitutional. Not all, mind you, but reps are generally christians who use the bible to back up what they feel is right and wrong and the dems use their own human moral compass. The bible teaches that homosexuality is a wrongful act and the marriage committment is for a man and a woman, abortion is murder, stealing by taking from the rich and giving to the poor is wrong, to name a few. Generally dems don't have any issue with any of those wrongs. They even say it's not wrong and tell those that think it is that they are bigots and haters because they believe what God says to be true. So, of course this Christian Nation would love to reclaim the WH and bring this nation back to some form of moral restraint. It will never be perfect till Jesus returns, but until he does, we should try our best to live according to his words.

There is no doubt that they want to be back in the office. The dems and the reps differ so much on what they feel is fair and moral and constitutional. Not all, mind you, but reps are generally christians who use the bible to back up what they feel is right and wrong and the dems use their own human moral compass. The bible teaches that homosexuality is a wrongful act and the marriage committment is for a man and a woman, abortion is murder, stealing by taking from the rich and giving to the poor is wrong, to name a few. Generally dems don't have any issue with any of those wrongs. They even say it's not wrong and tell those that think it is that they are bigots and haters because they believe what God says to be true. So, of course this Christian Nation would love to reclaim the WH and bring this nation back to some form of moral restraint. It will never be perfect till Jesus returns, but until he does, we should try our best to live according to his words.

As usual you reduce everything to some big government plot to take away our rights, our freedoms and control everything in a Hitler-like Germany. This of course is the only thing those on your side has because we have the facts on our side.

Factcheck.org is not a governement site, it is non-partisan. But it doesn't matter to those conspiracy, right wing people like you.

Civil rights were passed into law. And those laws have to be followed by everyone, including employers. Although there isn't necessarily a dollar cost to civil rights laws, I'm sure it cost employers in lawsuits who refused to follow the law. It is relevant in that these laws were also unpopular to many when passed but now supported by the majority of the American people.

What separates us from third world countries is our safety nets for the least among us. Whether it is welfare, subsidized housing, medicare, medicaid, veteran's benefits, etc..these programs make us the great nation that we are. I don't see the republicans trying to undo these programs. Because it would be political suicide because Americans see these programs as necessary and chances are someone in their family benefits from them.

Following your logic, then the bush administration took away my rights and freedoms when he took my tax money and spent in on an unnecessary war in Iraq in addition to the money he borrowed from China to fund it (money we didn't have). A war I was opposed to.

That is why we have taxes WITH representation. If you don't like it, you can contact your representative.

Health care mean life. And we have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." If living people don't have the right to the healthcare that will continue, improve or extend their life, then a fetus doesn't have that right either.

The republicans are generally christians who use the bible to back up what they feel? I almost choked on that analysis. Have you not been keeping up with the moral decline of those in the republican party, not to mention the hyposrisy?

I'm sure you thought the bush administration was a great, christian adminstration, especially when using my tax money to give to religious institutions under the guise of "faith based initiatives". Here's how that played out and how they really felt: (this from the book "Idiot America" by Charles P. Pierce)

David Kuo, came to DC to work on bush's faith based initiative. In his memoir, "Tempting Faith" he writes:

"Every other White House office was up and running. The faith-based initiative still operated out of the nearly vacant transition offices. Three days later, a Tuesday, Karl Rove summoned (Don) Willett (a former bush aide who initially shepherded the program) to his office to announce that the entire faith-based initiative would be rolled out the following Monday. Willett asked just how-without a director, office or plan - the president could do that. Rove looked at him, took a deep breath, and said "I don't know. Just get me a f***ing faith based thing. Got it?"

A f***ing faith based-thing? Karl Rove's christianity, bible based approach just overwhelms me. :wink2:

We all get your position Pattygreen. Work hard, get a job, buy your own healthcare and if you don't do these things, you are lazy, shiftless and deserve the plight you find yourself in. There can be no other reason. And don't expect any help from anyone.

I am no longer going to provide facts against your fear-mongering, heartless right wing rhetoric. It gets tiresome.

I know what the truth is and what the right thing is and that is all that matters to me.

Following your logic, then the bush administration took away my rights and freedoms when he took my tax money and spent in on an unnecessary war in Iraq in addition to the money he borrowed from China to fund it (money we didn't have). A war I was opposed to.

This is where we differ. The government was set up us a protector for times of war. The government is supposed to be for military help, along with police, fire fighters, infrastructure, etc. NOT social programs that interfere with free enterprise. The war was unnecessary according to YOU, but at the time that the war was declared, Bush had most all people on his side evn the democrats. If it was determined afterwards that it was a stupid decision on his part to go after terrorists who are intent on destroying Americans, then you and those who feel he made a wrong judgement call didn't have your "rights" taken away, you had your tax money spent foolishly (in your eyes).

The republicans are generally christians who use the bible to back up what they feel? I almost choked on that analysis. Have you not been keeping up with the moral decline of those in the republican party, not to mention the hyposrisy?

I was talking about republican people. Not republican politicians. The majority of republican politicians, IMO, started out with good intentions running, but then the lure of greed, power, and the like overtook them. Not all of them. Sarah Palin is a woman of integrity as well as Mike Huckabee and many others that I can see that have the good fruits within them that God tells us we will know his children by.