As 2009 opened, three weeks before Barack Obama took office, the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed at 9034 on January 2, its highest level since the autumn panic. Yesterday the Dow fell another 4.24% to 6763, for an overall decline of 25% in two months and to its lowest level since 1997. The dismaying message here is that President Obama's policies have become part of the economy's problem.

Americans have welcomed the Obama era in the same spirit of hope the President campaigned on. But after five weeks in office, it's become clear that Mr. Obama's policies are slowing, if not stopping, what would otherwise be the normal process of economic recovery. From punishing business to squandering scarce national public resources, Team Obama is creating more uncertainty and less confidence -- and thus a longer period of recession or subpar growth.

The Democrats who now run Washington don't want to hear this, because they benefit from blaming all bad economic news on President Bush. And Mr. Obama has inherited an unusual recession deepened by credit problems, both of which will take time to climb out of. But it's also true that the economy has fallen far enough, and long enough, that much of the excess that led to recession is being worked off. Already 15 months old, the current recession will soon match the average length -- and average job loss -- of the last three postwar downturns. What goes down will come up -- unless destructive policies interfere with the sources of potential recovery.

And those sources have been forming for some time. The price of oil and other commodities have fallen by two-thirds since their 2008 summer peak, which has the effect of a major tax cut. The world is awash in liquidity, thanks to monetary ease by the Federal Reserve and other central banks. Monetary policy operates with a lag, but last year's easing will eventually stir economic activity.

Housing prices have fallen 27% from their Case-Shiller peak, or some two-thirds of the way back to their historical trend. While still high, credit spreads are far from their peaks during the panic, and corporate borrowers are again able to tap the credit markets. As equities were signaling with their late 2008 rally and January top, growth should under normal circumstances begin to appear in the second half of this year.

So what has happened in the last two months? The economy has received no great new outside shock. Exchange rates and other prices have been stable, and there are no security crises of note. The reality of a sharp recession has been known and built into stock prices since last year's fourth quarter.

What is new is the unveiling of Mr. Obama's agenda and his approach to governance. Every new President has a finite stock of capital -- financial and political -- to deploy, and amid recession Mr. Obama has more than most. But one negative revelation has been the way he has chosen to spend his scarce resources on income transfers rather than growth promotion. Most of his "stimulus" spending was devoted to social programs, rather than public works, and nearly all of the tax cuts were devoted to income maintenance rather than to improving incentives to work or invest.

His Treasury has been making a similar mistake with its financial bailout plans. The banking system needs to work through its losses, and one necessary use of public capital is to assist in burning down those bad assets as fast as possible. Yet most of Team Obama's ministrations so far have gone toward triage and life support, rather than repair and recovery.

AIG yesterday received its fourth "rescue," including $70 billion in Troubled Asset Relief Program cash, without any clear business direction. (See here.) Citigroup's restructuring last week added not a dollar of new capital, and also no clear direction. Perhaps the imminent Treasury "stress tests" will clear the decks, but until they do the banks are all living in fear of becoming the next AIG. All of this squanders public money that could better go toward burning down bank debt.

The market has notably plunged since Mr. Obama introduced his budget last week, and that should be no surprise. The document was a declaration of hostility toward capitalists across the economy. Health-care stocks have dived on fears of new government mandates and price controls. Private lenders to students have been told they're no longer wanted. Anyone who uses carbon energy has been warned to expect a huge tax increase from cap and trade. And every risk-taker and investor now knows that another tax increase will slam the economy in 2011, unless Mr. Obama lets Speaker Nancy Pelosi impose one even earlier.

Meanwhile, Congress demands more bank lending even as it assails lenders and threatens to let judges rewrite mortgage contracts. The powers in Congress -- unrebuked by Mr. Obama -- are ridiculing and punishing the very capitalists who are essential to a sustainable recovery. The result has been a capital strike, and the return of the fear from last year that we could face a far deeper downturn. This is no way to nurture a wounded economy back to health.

Listening to Mr. Obama and his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, on the weekend, we couldn't help but wonder if they appreciate any of this. They seem preoccupied with going to the barricades against Republicans who wield little power, or picking a fight with Rush Limbaugh, as if this is the kind of economic leadership Americans want.

Perhaps they're reading the polls and figure they have two or three years before voters stop blaming Republicans and Mr. Bush for the economy. Even if that's right in the long run, in the meantime their assault on business and investors is delaying a recovery and ensuring that the expansion will be weaker than it should be when it finally does arrive.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123604419092515347.html

You can not legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person recieves without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can not give to anybody anything the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else gets what they work for, that, my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You can not multiply wealth by dividing it.

quote from The Rev. Adrian Rogers, former president, Southern Baptist Convention

plain: the voice of reason. It's almost like a dream scenario. :thumbdown: Sorry dude, I feel it is my duty to jump into the fray. Screw Octomom. Her story is old news. But don't worry the cameras will keep you abreast of her antics. In the meantime...

Where were all you buggers who are slamming Obama's plan to revitalize the economy, when George W. was funneling it down a rat hole in Iraq? When George and his cronies were running a fascist government right here in river city, you said nothing. Now you're calling Obama's plans socialist.

How can you possibly justify the things that Bush did? He usurped all the power from Congress and had his merry way with us. He has been threatened by other countries that if he sets foot in them, they will arrest him for war crimes. And you sound proud of the things that he did because he made us safer? I can't believe that we were all such idiots that we thought we were impotent against him and his cronies.

Hell after 8 years, we had forgotten what it was like for a president to communicate with us. To get up and take responsibility. Instead of our past president who would hide out most of the time and only speak with scripts because when he spoke spontaneously, he said something utterly stupid or profane. (Remember for instance, the "shit" remark he made to the British Prime Minister on camera with a live feed?)

And you fault a president who gives a damn about the people of this country? You call that being socialist? You people come up with a friggin' plan that will work better than what he has put forth and I will support it. But I have no illusions that the Republicans, either the middle road or right wing extremists, have a viable plan. If they did, they might have used it over the past 8 years. Nah, they were too busy getting rich and richer.

You listen to too much canned crap on Fox network. Don't you understand how you are being used and manipulated by Rupert Murdoch and his lap dogs?

Broaden your horizons. Don't listen to me. Read a book, watch a newscast with opposing viewpoints. A light bulb might come on. You might learn something.

BJean, I don't have cable, so FOX is out. I don't listen to pundits. I hate him based on what I see. I hate him because he is bad for this country. I hate him and pray for his failure every single day, because for him to flourish means that socialism also flourishes.

And don't talk about Bush and his scripts. I'm certainly not his fan, but let's talk about Mr. Teleprompter. :thumbdown:

And that's all I'm gonna say about that bastard on this thread. I choose not to go to the political threads because I would probably burst a blood vessel over the Obama lovers who suffer from insufferable Hope-nosis.

You assume those of us who disagree with the great messiah do so because we are uneducated dolts. That couldn't be further from the truth. I work very hard to come up with my own ideas on things rather than jumping on bandwagons. The only sheeple I have seen so far seem to be those who think Obama is the be-all, end-all. He's not. He's a highly unqualified dork who happened to toss around a few buzz words that people latched onto. Let's see how those buzz words will help you when you're struggling to put food on the table. Oh, wait, the messiah will do it for you, with somebody else's money! Yay.

Edit: I thought this was the octomom thread?? lol

Edited April 1, 200917 yr by BethFromVA

It became the political thread when people decided that Octomom's living on the dole related to presidential politics. I didn't bring it up. I only threw in my 2 cents.

Talk about buzz words... you have some corkers.

I feel very sorry for you and others who are scared spitless of President Obama's proposed plans. You have NO hope. You didn't like Bush, you HATE Obama. It's all hopeless, right?

I can't imagine what kind of life you have. It must be depressing as heck to live in your head.

Well I'm a whole lot older than you are and I've seen a lot more politics. And yeah, after living through everything I've seen that has occurred in politics, dirty and good, I have hope. President Obama is the most intelligent and effective (so far) president we've had in my lifetime. But the jury is still out. I may learn that he has sold us down the river just as badly as his predecessor.

But I have hope. I cling to hope. I have to. If I didn't have hope for my country, I would be too depressed to function.

Btw Beth, I have a small, wee confession. I really wasn't thinking of you when I suggested that if one changed the channel and read an opposing viewpoint one might learn something. Obviously you don't think that shoe fits you because you don't watch Fox and you have many and varied sources for keeping abreast of all things political, eh? Well good for you!

Where were all you buggers who are slamming Obama's plan to revitalize the economy, when George W. was funneling it down a rat hole in Iraq? When George and his cronies were running a fascist government right here in river city, you said nothing. Now you're calling Obama's plans socialist.

Well, we are moving there rapidly. What else would you call Obama's plans for the government to be able to take over private businesses that they (the government) think could influence the economy? What about the congress passing legislation to be able to take money from private citizens who have broken no laws (AIG bonuses)?

How can you possibly justify the things that Bush did? He usurped all the power from Congress and had his merry way with us.

What? What power specifically did Bush take from congress?

He has been threatened by other countries that if he sets foot in them, they will arrest him for war crimes.

But if that's true, then wouldn't Obama also be guilty of those crimes if he doesn't immediately take steps to completely reverse all of Bush's "crimes"? If Obama doesn't remove all soldiers from Iraq, isn't he guilty of the same crimes? Is he guilty if he sends troops into Afghanistan?

And you fault a president who gives a damn about the people of this country? You call that being socialist?

No, it's admirable to care about the people of this country. It's socialist when the government decides to redistribute wealth based on a monatary figure that some bureaucrat pulled out of his ass.

You people come up with a friggin' plan that will work better than what he has put forth and I will support it. But I have no illusions that the Republicans, either the middle road or right wing extremists, have a viable plan. If they did, they might have used it over the past 8 years. Nah, they were too busy getting rich and richer.

Because it's all about republican vs. democrat, right BJean?

You listen to too much canned crap on Fox network. Don't you understand how you are being used and manipulated by Rupert Murdoch and his lap dogs?

yeah.....I was wondering when that tired old response would find it's way out. "Fox is evil....blahblahblah....."

Broaden your horizons. Don't listen to me. Read a book, watch a newscast with opposing viewpoints. A light bulb might come on. You might learn something.

As with most liberals, you insinuate that anybody that doesn't agree with you is dim. Whatever, man.

Wow, BJean, why the personal slams on me?? All I did was say how much I detest your messiah. Never once did I point fingers at you as being stupid or misguided or downright ignorant for voting for him -- because you chose him for whatever reason. That is your prerogative, just as it is mine to detest the man and NOT walk in lock-step with every stupid thing he does.

You may feel sorry for me for having no faith in my government, and absolutely NO faith in this POS loser, but wow, but I feel more sorry for you that your liberalism pretty much requires you to show your "tolerant" side in such a way towards those who detest your Jim Jones. I thought you people were the ones who loved and accepted everybody. Eh, guess that was all a crock of shit too. :thumbdown:

President Obama is the most intelligent and effective (so far) president we've had in my lifetime.

What has he done that's been the most effective of any president in your lifetime?

Well, we are moving there rapidly. What else would you call Obama's plans for the government to be able to take over private businesses that they (the government) think could influence the economy? What about the congress passing legislation to be able to take money from private citizens who have broken no laws (AIG bonuses)?

I'm guessing like other class haters, she thinks taking from those who are actually the backbone of American jobs is a good thing.

What? What power specifically did Bush take from congress?

If ever there was a group who NEEDS its powers curbed...

But if that's true, then wouldn't Obama also be guilty of those crimes if he doesn't immediately take steps to completely reverse all of Bush's "crimes"? If Obama doesn't remove all soldiers from Iraq, isn't he guilty of the same crimes? Is he guilty if he sends troops into Afghanistan?

Nah, EVERYTHING he does is fantastic and blessed. He can go on Leno and yuk-yuk it up and he's touted as a 'Regular Joe," but if Bush had done it... wowza. These people just can't see their own hypocrisy, which is almost sadder than the fact that this teleprompter-needin' corn pone got onto office.

But instead, he releases terrorist suspects from Gitmo who are now reestablishing themselves here OR in their countries, many whom have been proven to have gone back to what they do best: TERRORISM.

No, it's admirable to care about the people of this country. It's socialist when the government decides to redistribute wealth based on a monatary figure that some bureaucrat pulled out of his ass.[.quote]

C'mon, Plain, now you're just being silly. Redistribute wealth? Pshaw. It's the human thing to do to rip the hard-earned money out of the grubby, greedy hands of those who worked hard for it and give it to slobs and lowlifes who just want to drink a 40 and watch Jerry Springer. Ain't it the American way??

Because it's all about republican vs. democrat, right BJean?

Only for those who don't really have a decent argument...

yeah.....I was wondering when that tired old response would find it's way out. "Fox is evil....blahblahblah....."

It's in their "10 Steps To Being a Complete Hypocrite In Order To Be the Best Left-Winger Ever" bible. I think it comes in at number two or three. BJean? Be a dear and look that one up for us. :thumbdown:

As with most liberals, you insinuate that anybody that doesn't agree with you is dim. Whatever, man.

Yeah, cuz liberalism worked SO well for the 40 years they were in control. All these lib pols seem better at is being total asswipes and muddying the waters, thereby taking people's attention off what's REALLY going on. Gotta give 'em that.

What has he done that's been the most effective of any president in your lifetime?

Oh, c'mon, plain, you don't REALLY expect any of these people to have an answer to that, do you?

And "most intelligent"?? The moron can't string together five words in a sentence without a teleprompter, for chrissake.

I'm holding my tongue because I'm not an economics major. Even if I was, I think I'd still hold my tongue.

Obama came into office with a plan to overcome this financial failure of the US, not only based on his research, but of many educated and knowledgable consulants. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Time will tell. To think doing nothing will fix it, is obsurd, that is what Bush was doing.

Obama did not create this mess. I hope (I WANT!) this plan will work. To actually hope he fails is so unAmerican, because failure will mean disaster to so many more Americans and maybe the country.

Do Obama's haters actually think results will be seen immediately? Give the guy a break, he hasn't even been in office 4 months.

What I'm hearing here is Rush Limbaugh talk. He's an idiot and hateful! Why associate with his opinion? :thumbdown:

Whoo-hoo, gotcha stirred up, did I? Well I know this is going to disappoint you all but I gotta hit the sack.

And Beth I did not insult your intellect. I made a point not to do that.

I'd love to go head to head with you plain, but it's just too darned late.

Answer my questions tonight and do an actual rebuttal of the content of mine that you quoted (beyond the Fox comment) and I'll be happy to give you mine tomorrow.

I'd like for once for one of you to actually explain exactly why Bush's fascism is so much better than Obama's potential socialism.

Or do you really not know about Bush going to Congress and getting them to allow him to have free reign over the decision of when and where to go to war? Do you not know how the White House was run during the Bush administration? Are you unaware of the Cheney group that held the real power?

If ya'll don't watch Fox, what media sources do you ascribe to?

One more quick hit:

Volcano lady: good post!!

I didn't mention Rush Limbaugh because I hate to think that people really take him seriously. Perhaps you're right and that is the source of all this trash talk. Because it is way too canned, the very thing they seem to accuse me of.

I can't imagine why anyone would continue to defend the Bush administration. You're right, if it isn't a daily dose of Fox, it's probably good ole' Rush. The "new voice" of the Republican party, eh? God help us.

Obama came into office with a plan to overcome this financial failure of the US, not only based on his research, but of many educated and knowledgable consulants. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Time will tell. To think doing nothing will fix it, is obsurd, that is what Bush was doing.

Well....yes and no. The brilliance of Obama's top economical position (Treasury secretary Geithner) is certainly disputable. And Bush didn't "do nothing"......He freaked out and started this whole bailout bullcrap! Plenty of blame to go around.

Do Obama's haters actually think results will be seen immediately? Give the guy a break, he hasn't even been in office 4 months.

Agree. That's why I questioned BJean's assertation that he has been the most effective of any president in her lifetime.

What I'm hearing here is Rush Limbaugh talk. He's an idiot and hateful! Why associate with his opinion? :thumbdown:

Rush is an idiot and a blowhard. I'm a conservative and I don't like him or listen to his show.

I'd like for once for one of you to actually explain exactly why Bush's fascism is so much better than Obama's potential socialism.

Ok. Because even if you hate Bush and his policies, there was a chance to boot him out after 4 years. Obama is seeking to change the fabric of the law that will outlast his term(s) as president. This should scare you shitless, BJean....let's say Jeb Bush is elected after Obama's 4 (or 8) years. Then it will be his cabinet that has the power to set private citizen's salaries....his cabinet that would control banking, housing, and automobile manufacture. See, it ain't about Obama vs. Bush. It's about Obama setting precedents that are very bad for America.

Or do you really not know about Bush going to Congress and getting them to allow him to have free reign over the decision of when and where to go to war?

Really, you mean congress voted against going to war with Iraq? And......unless congress abdicated all their powers (pssssssst - they didn't), Bush didn't have free reign over anything.

Do you not know how the White House was run during the Bush administration? Are you unaware of the Cheney group that held the real power?

Wow...more generalities. What was the name of the group that "held the real power"? Was it the illuminati? Was it Skull and Bones? Was it the Freemasons? Seriously. BJean, this is 100% pure conspiracy theory.

If ya'll don't watch Fox, what media sources do you ascribe to?

Oh, I never said I don't watch Fox. That's just not all I watch. I like some CNN programs, I sometimes watch BBC news, and I read the Texarkana paper (they get most of their content from the Associated Press). I don't listen to talk radio at all......except for The Bob and Tom Show (which is a syndicated morning comedy show), and they're not political at all.