There was a story on the news about this, and I thought it would be an iteresting debate. I am undecided.

Well I had a burger today. I guess that makes me a glutton and further makes me a sinner.

so what your saying is 'if the rest of the people feel it's ok to do this or that, then it's morally ok.' You have no creator. In other words, whatever you decide is immoral , will be in your eyes.

Also, refering to your previous post: You have it backwards. the bible is only contradictory to unbelievers, those who haven't read it from the beginning to the end. (most unbelievers will not take the time to read it in its full content for it is a long book) And it is the unbeliever who cherrypicks it. (for they want to live according to their own ways and not God's ways and they therefore pick and choose the scriptures they want to abide by and those that they don't) You did that in your past post when you spoke about slavery in the bible. God spoke of slavery in the bible because it was what man chose to do and was doing, but he never approved of it. Also, in the beginning of creation, God permitted multiple wives for procreation sake. ( So the earth could become populated. ) But He ended that later. Man decide to continue with what he wanted to do.(have more than 1 wife) You are right when you say in other countries it is acceptable to marry at the onset of puberty. Mary, the birthmother of Jesus was 14 years old when she gave birth to him, so obviously it was and is acceptable to God. I am therefore ok with it also. But because I live here where it is frowned upon, I will abide by this law because It hurts noone to wait until you are 18 to get married. Where the prostition issue comes in, I see that in not abiding by God's ruling in this circumstance, there are ill consequences. As far as people choosing to worship according to their geographical location. you are right to an extent. But it's not geography, it's parents teachings. But not in all cases. I was born into a catholic family and was taught their doctrine. When I got older I chose to read the bible on my own. After reading it, I determined that I could no longer be catholic for they taught me many, many things that were not biblical. (hence why they kept the reading of the scriptures away from their congregants for so many centuries) I have 4 friends who were raised in Islamic families, yet found the truth in the Bible. You obviously have not done a careful examination of the bible, as you called it. for if you had, your life would have changed. There are not too many people who have read God's words (in full, not bits and pieces) who were able to walk away from its teaching unchanged and believing it.

Here is another example of your judgementalism, Pattygreen. While it is true that many unbelievers do cherrypick, not all do. Some whom I have met have studied the Bible closely; some were former believers; and some have been sufficiently curious as to study the Bible in its original languages - that is to say, ancient Greek, classical Hebrew, and, I believe, Aramaic. I am not one of these scholarly folk, by the way. I have met folks who were atheists and who became converts and I have met folks who were cradle Christians who became atheists - upon studying the Bible and belief. It is a rich and complicated world out there. Those of you who do believe in God may wish to thank Him for this very thing, this wealth of difference.

I also believe that both believers and non believers can and do act in a fine and ethical fashion. We have all seen scandals where professional men of God have behaved very badly. There have been Catholic priests abusing altar boys and fundamentalist preachers unmasked for their unsavoury practices. There were the Christian nations of Europe participating in the Holocaust, not so long ago. Belief alone is not a shelter against evil acts, Pattygreen. It is very important to understand the mechanics behind human behaviour and this includes those activities which you would call Sin.

Well I had a burger today. I guess that makes me a glutton and further makes me a sinner.

No, it makes you LUCKY!!! I'm on liquids over here!

Psst, can I just smell your breath?

Give that lady a CI-gar!!!

Oh, I would so love a ci-gar, eh.

i reread that post I wrote which you refer to. WHO did I judge there? For to judge someone is to predict or determine the outcome of their fate for their actions. I do not see any judgement of mine in that post. point it out to me.

that last post was for green

if you would like to hear my opinions on gluttony, they are the same as God's opinion on the subject. It is a sin and It is wrong to eat more than your body needs. Oh my! I hope noone feels I was bashing the bible into their face or casting judgement on them!!

No, it makes you LUCKY!!! I'm on liquids over here!

Psst, can I just smell your breath?

HHHHhhhhhhh... smell that? Those are called *Fresh* onions!

Okay, pjtp that I'm full too... still and I ate like 4 hours ago. My port is popped out like one of those turkey things when its done. Does that make any sense?

if you would like to hear my opinions on gluttony, they are the same as God's opinion on the subject. It is a sin and It is wrong to eat more than your body needs. Oh my! I hope noone feels I was bashing the bible into their face or casting judgement on them!!

So then I guess you can go stand next to the prostitute.

HHHHhhhhhhh... smell that? Those are called *Fresh* onions!

Okay, pjtp that I'm full too... still and I ate like 4 hours ago. My port is popped out like one of those turkey things when its done. Does that make any sense?

Ooooh, that smells SO good! Mmmmmm... LOL Now I'll go fix me some chicken broth.

i reread that post I wrote which you refer to. WHO did I judge there? For to judge someone is to predict or determine the outcome of their fate for their actions. I do not see any judgement of mine in that post. point it out to me.

Oh, Pattygreen, there is just a general miasma of judgementalism that comes off your posts. I was trying to point out examples of this to you but if you don't see it, then there is no sense going on with this exercise. It will merely be destructive and painful.

if you would like to hear my opinions on gluttony, they are the same as God's opinion on the subject. It is a sin and It is wrong to eat more than your body needs. Oh my! I hope noone feels I was bashing the bible into their face or casting judgement on them!!

But, Pattygreen, aren't you curious about why people indulge in gluttony?

Patty, I guess to help make things more clear, I look at how you use your Christianity to bolster your stance, and then I look at Steve Goad's use of Christianity to bolster his stance. It's like night and day.

Maybe you could read some of Steve's posts to get an idea about how your attempt at communication is lacking.

Agreed. Let's find the OP and stone her. And by that, I mean I'll invite her to my parents' basement, put on some Portishead, and let the magic begin.

HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN??!!! HA HA!

Well, I wanted to get something started and liven up this place, so it looks like I succeeded!!!!

Well, besides the "I ate a double double burger from In N Out two days post op" thread.

Ok, I know I'm a little behind on my reading, BUT WHO DID THIS???!!!!!!!!!!!

I also stopped reading pattygreen's posts on this topic about 8 pages ago because all I see when I read them is BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!