IF the economy is the #1 issue in America why would you vote for McCain? He stated not long ago (Sept 15,2008) that the fundamentals of our economy is good:blink:. Seriously? Then just today or yesterday, he said the problem with the economy is corporate greed and would have a commission (much like the like 9/11 commission) study it. WTF?! So basically he is saying he doesn't want to deal with the economy! AND lets not forget his TOP economic advisor stated just a few months ago in JUNE/JULY of THIS year that there was nothing wrong with our economy and that the American people were a bunch of "whiners". Does this sound like a person who is for the people? It is just infuriating to me that this race has become "tight"! I mean it's pretty bad when Karl Rove says the McCain campaign is lying and running a bad campaign!! UGH I will never understand what people see in McCain!

For me, I might just go in the booth and spin around and tap my finger on screen and leave.

I'm with you on this one. There are things about both of them that I don't like, so it's down to which of two evils do I go with?

There are also points that I agree with on many of these posts. I'm not going to pinpoint parties, but there are people out there who DO want to feed on the American "tit," per se, and don't want to work. But I believe in a woman's right to choose. If it was a MAN'S choice we were talking about here?.....well...there wouldn't even BE an issue! I like the fact that Palin is radical, and I believe in God, but to believe in Creationism and abortion doesn't fit with my values. And honestly, I'm afraid OF Obama and FOR Obama. I don't think I like the people he hangs around with. And there are a lot of whackos out there...white supremists who would love to take him out. But then, with McCain, unless he's got age longevity like Reagan, we might just have a woman for President. Then what in heck would all those stout Republicans do? And just for the record, I'm a Democrat. But I will vote with the person who I believe closest resembles my values. Hard job!

Have you seen the recent blog attributed to Bill Cosby? I'd vote for HIM if that was his platform.

Jack, you are so right about Cosby! I like him because he just puts it out there like it really is and suggests the way things should be. I haven't read the blog, (although I will) but I remember visiting my mother several months back and her reading a speech he did and thinking now THAT was something I could sink my teeth into.

I'm really liking this thread....learning a lot, actually.

Obama gets my vote too and the vote of most people I know and I'm in conservative Colorado.

I was going by Obama's voting record, which is public record.

Where did Obama get some of his contributions from???Fannie and Freddi!!

Here is to contributing to the economy!!

So are we supposed to just have good faith in the wealthiest people to give money to the poor? Whatever! Why shouldn't the wealthiest people pay more in taxes? Can they not afford it?

Not that I am even close to rich but if I were, why should I have to part with more of my hard earned money to pay for other people who can just sit on their butt and do nothing all day long. All too many times I have seen people at the stores paying for groceries with their bridge cards and buying their smokes, alcohol and blunt wrappers with cash. All while wearing their over priced brand name gear. Let me just say that the day people have to start peeing in a cup to get that welfare check is the day I might start to have a little more faith in the current system. Not only did I have to pee in a cup for my paycheck, I actually have to put in 40 hours a week to receive it!

It's difficult when elections require you to vote one of two ways, but you lay outside of either. And I'm not talking about "Republicans for Obama." Not everyone identifies with either party. "I never was really into the parties. With Democrats and Republicans you basically have people who didn't have the energy to join a bowling league. And neither of these teams is any good." In most elections that I can remember being a part of, I was voting for the lesser of two evils. Not necessarily being PRO candidate A, but voting that way because it was a vote against candidate B. And those I know who don't identify with either major political party know that if there's a candidate they DO like, it's probably not the Rep or Dem, but voting for their candidate of choice is the same thing as throwing away a vote against the candidate they like the least. A lot of people will vote uninformed, not really understanding the full picture of either candidate. A lot of people will vote on a particular issue. A lot of people will vote for McCain because they hear "tax increases" and can't afford more than they're already paying. A lot of people will vote for Obama because even though they hear "tax increases" and can't afford it now, they suspect the long term benefits might be worth it. There's a good chance in either case they couldn't tell you the candidates' views on, say, trade or liberties... it's the tax issue that's making or breaking it for them. Many people I know who are voting for McCain are doing so under the assumption that... he's old... our life expectancy isn't that long... I'm essentially voting for Palin. Many people I know who are voting for Obama are voting that way because he's black. Is either a good, informed vote? Who knows.

I apologize for the wall of text above, my paragraphs aren't being carried over when I post.

Why shouldn't the wealthiest people pay more in taxes? Can they not afford it?

Not directed at whomever is quoted, but in general... also asking sincerely, not rhetorically. There's a difference between paying more in taxes and paying a higher percentage of taxes. If I have to pay $10,000 in taxes and someone else has to pay $5, I don't mind -- as long as we're both paying 5%. But if I have to pay 50% while they pay 5%, I mind. (I heart flat tax) There's also a difference in factoring wealth based on income, and gross/net worth. Candidates are defining "rich" on income, not worth. (Most Americans would probably align themselves with Obama's definition of rich over McCain's, even if they don't know it). That's one big potential liability. A good friend of mine makes a substantial salary as a doctor. Her salary is about 60% higher than mine, and her gross worth is correspondingly higher. However, factor in her student loans and malpractice premiums, and I have a much higher net worth. Should she pay more taxes than I do? Likewise, my income is due in part to having invested over $80,000 and 5 years into graduate school. Because that effort and sacrifice is yielding a higher income than someone else who didn't pay that tuition or give up that amount of their personal time, should I automatically pay out a higher percentage of my income than they do?

You know I really think the problem with people these days is greed! Some of you have stated there are these people who live off the government without working and why should someone who makes more pay out more in taxes, etc. This is really disheartening to me as an American. My husband is in the Air Force and I am a veteran myself, I have seen lots of families on government programs like foodstamps and wic. It is incredulous the view some of you have about people on government assistance. Do I think that there are people out there who abuse the system? Yes of course but how can we do away with the system when there are MORE people who genuinely need the help? Reform it, yes but do away with it NO.

Maybe we need to make college more financially available to people of ALL incomes, which in my opinion would help with abuse of government assistance. Which by the way is what Obama plans to do!

Also don't know if you are aware of McCain's health plan but he wants to tax the amount people pay for employer-based healthcare meaning: Not only would you pay your normal taxes from your pay, you would also being paying taxes on what you pay for your healthcare plan from your employer! I don't see how that helps the healthcare problem since SO MANY americans don't even have healthcare. AND it's not just because it is expensive but because insurance companies DENY people care! Where's the solution to that JOHN MCCAIN??!!

Do I think that there are people out there who abuse the system? Yes of course but how can we do away with the system when there are MORE people who genuinely need the help?

Estimates (anecdotal from the people who manage the programs and assistance process, but also supported by their audits) in my state are that maybe 5% of the people receiving government assistance actually need all the assistance they receive. IIRC the highest "true need" estimate topped around 15%. The remaining 95% (or 75%, take your pick) receive more aid than they need (by state definitions), either in terms of the number of programs they're in, or the benefits they're receiving for a given program/programs. So is your statement based on a particular state's averges, or national, and what numbers are telling you the true need is outweighing the abusive need? (I've only seen numbers/reports to the contrary... am most interested in learning more)

I have no idea why anyone would vote for McBush.

My vote is with Obama!

The military is another interesting angle. Military families can (or at least could last I was part of one) live free on base or receive BAH to cover/offset if not. Core utilities were free or very greatly reduced. Major appliances are provided. Maintenance (structural) was free. Goods could be purchased at reduced rates, and with decreased sales tax through commissaries and PX. Including non-necessities like alcohol, beauty accessories, furniture, etc. Medical was free, dental was free. I don't remember vision but I think it was free too. Cheap life insurance. There was no required budget for work attire. Gas to and fro base, but parking was free and things like bridge passes were comped. Then consider all civilian world discounts (granted their use is optional). An E-4's avg. full compensation is around $40,000 not including "extras" (e.g. special pay) and not including what they're saving on ancillary perks such as the free medical. With branch discretions. Why is it so much harder (or at least perceived to be harder) for military families? We always did fine, but when I think back, quite a few of the families were on some form of welfare. I can see reasons in most cases, largely around choices or responsibility, not so much related to being a military family.

You know I really think the problem with people these days is greed! Some of you have stated there are these people who live off the government without working and why should someone who makes more pay out more in taxes, etc. This is really disheartening to me as an American.

How is this greed? This is capitalism, and it's what our economy is based on. Let me ask you a question.....Where would you cap income tax on the rich? 50%? 60%? 90%? Where?

My husband is in the Air Force and I am a veteran myself, I have seen lots of families on government programs like foodstamps and wic.

Commendable. And it is a shame that anybody serving their country should have to live like that. That should totally be fixed. I don't think either candidate has addressed this issue, unless you count Obama's promises to deeply cut back on the military, basically firing all these soldiers.

It is incredulous the view some of you have about people on government assistance. Do I think that there are people out there who abuse the system? Yes of course but how can we do away with the system when there are MORE people who genuinely need the help? Reform it, yes but do away with it NO.

Uh, nobody here wants to turn out people truly in need. We both agree that the system needs to be overhauled. Did you know that the disaster of Katrina exposed that much of the city of New Orleans were 3rd generation welfare recipients? Grandpa, then dad, then current person. Guess where the child and grandchild are headed? Both candidates agree that the welfare system is flawed.....McCain wants to reform it within the current framework, Obama wants to throw more government at it.

Maybe we need to make college more financially available to people of ALL incomes, which in my opinion would help with abuse of government assistance. Which by the way is what Obama plans to do!

And McCain is on record as saying that he thinks less kids need to go to college? College needs to be more financially available to the lower and middle income familes. High end kids have their share of college troubles, but being able to afford the tuition is usually not one of them. On this we agree.

Also don't know if you are aware of McCain's health plan but he wants to tax the amount people pay for employer-based healthcare

Nope. McCain wants to give everybody a $5000 tax credit to be used towards insurance. This credit would apply even if you already recieve insurance from an employer. That sounds better than Obama's plan: universal health care paid for by taxpayers. What could possibly go wrong if the government were in charge of healthcare, right?

The military is another interesting angle. Military families can (or at least could last I was part of one) live free on base or receive BAH to cover/offset if not. Core utilities were free or very greatly reduced. Major appliances are provided. Maintenance (structural) was free. Goods could be purchased at reduced rates, and with decreased sales tax through commissaries and PX. Including non-necessities like alcohol, beauty accessories, furniture, etc. Medical was free, dental was free. I don't remember vision but I think it was free too. Cheap life insurance. There was no required budget for work attire. Gas to and fro base, but parking was free and things like bridge passes were comped. Then consider all civilian world discounts (granted their use is optional). An E-4's avg. full compensation is around $40,000 not including "extras" (e.g. special pay) and not including what they're saving on ancillary perks such as the free medical. With branch discretions. Why is it so much harder (or at least perceived to be harder) for military families? We always did fine, but when I think back, quite a few of the families were on some form of welfare. I can see reasons in most cases, largely around choices or responsibility, not so much related to being a military family.

WOW where the heck are you getting this information?? I am a military wife and my husband is an E-6 and we DO NOT make 40,000! He takes home around $30,000/year! If you are going by the base pay chart please note that taxes are taken out of our checks as well as yours and we have to pay for our dental. We still have to pay for childcare like others, gas costs the same on base as it does off and sometimes it's cheaper off base. Also our housing allowance is only given to us if we live off base and in MOST cases does not cover rent/house payment + insurance+utilities. And I can tell you since I do live in base housing you are expected to maintain the house yourself to include the yard. It works much like a rental. However, more and more base housing is going privitized and is not run by the government but by a company contracted through the government. We do not pay for utilities such as electric or Water but do pay for cable and phone. It is a good thing we don't have to pay for housing because what my husband brings home a paycheck we couldn't survive if we had to.

The commissary does have a surcharge for each time you use like a tax. Prices there are comparable but sometimes are more expensive since they do not carry "off" brands like Best Choice. Also keep in mind my husband's particular job takes him away from us 5 days at a time then he comes home for 5 days however, 2 of those days he is in training most of the day and DOES NOT get paid overtime or receive any special pay. He gets a yearly clothing allowance which does not cover the cost of purchasing uniforms, sewing on all necessary Patches, and maintaining said uniforms. To buy 1 set of uniforms with the cost of patches sewn on is around $200 not including maintenance and his yearly clothing allowance is $350. This also does not include specific shirts, boots, cost to purchase patches, nametags, ribbons, stripes, etc.

Honestly looking back I don't know how we survived when husband was an E-4. You need to go to a military forum and talk to the troops and see how their way of life really is!! There are a lot of misconceptions about military life! Now to mention our free healthcare it's free as long as you use military run facilities or are "approved" through tricare to be seen by a civilian. And lets not forget as an active duty military person you can be notified TODAY that you will be deploying for Iraq TOMORROW!! I've seen it happen! So please don't insinuate that the military life is easy or we have some sort of money trees here. For the service my husband, myself, and others have given to this country, it's insulting! Especially since you have no idea what you are talking about! I have been military affiliated for 11 years so I DO know what I'm talking about!

And like I said before, Reform our government assistance programs-YES, do away with them-NO.

How is this greed? This is capitalism, and it's what our economy is based on. Let me ask you a question.....Where would you cap income tax on the rich? 50%? 60%? 90%? Where?

Commendable. And it is a shame that anybody serving their country should have to live like that. That should totally be fixed. I don't think either candidate has addressed this issue, unless you count Obama's promises to deeply cut back on the military, basically firing all these soldiers.

Uh, nobody here wants to turn out people truly in need. We both agree that the system needs to be overhauled. Did you know that the disaster of Katrina exposed that much of the city of New Orleans were 3rd generation welfare recipients? Grandpa, then dad, then current person. Guess where the child and grandchild are headed? Both candidates agree that the welfare system is flawed.....McCain wants to reform it within the current framework, Obama wants to throw more government at it.

And McCain is on record as saying that he thinks less kids need to go to college? College needs to be more financially available to the lower and middle income familes. High end kids have their share of college troubles, but being able to afford the tuition is usually not one of them. On this we agree.

Nope. McCain wants to give everybody a $5000 tax credit to be used towards insurance. This credit would apply even if you already recieve insurance from an employer. That sounds better than Obama's plan: universal health care paid for by taxpayers. What could possibly go wrong if the government were in charge of healthcare, right?

If you increase the money taken out of the middle class families paycheck it makes it harder for them to make ends meet on a monthly basis. Giving them a lump sum once a year does not make it easier for them when they are playing catch up all year. Also, this does not fix the problem of insurance companies flat out denying people coverage that they are willing to pay for to begin with. THAT is the majority of the problem! I'm not necessarily for universal healthcare but something has to be done and throwing money at it won't solve it and where do you think that $5000 credit will come from?

50% of a $30,000/yr salary is a lot different than 50% of 1,000,000/yr. salary! Think about it, you can survive off 500,000/yr. in a luxurious lifestyle no less but try surviving off $15,000/yr. Also if you come from a poor family lower class family how can you be expected to go to college and pay for it to make that 1,000,000/yr. in the future? And that's going for a serious profession, nowadays you can't hardly get out of college without $100,000 worth of student loans and if you want to be a nurse who starts out at MAYBE 50,000 how are they going to pay for all the necessities in life to include your student loans? It is a double-edged sword. How do we fix it? I personally like Obama's plan cause he has one to begin with!LOL!