NPR was doing a segment this morning on a very large Christian movement to have the new movie, The Golden Compass, boycotted. Of the three Pullman (a professed rejector of organized religion and atheist), this one (based on Northern Lights) has the least occurence of "anti-religion" themes - the last having the most. He is seen as being anti-Christian and anti-Catholic, but if you're familiar with him, he is much more anti-religion in the most general sense.

People are trying to stop their children from seeing this movie, out of fear that interest in the movie will generate interest in the books and *gasp* expose their children to themes of anti-religion.

I really don't understand this.

Why would someone be afraid that their child might learn that there's such a thing as atheism or agnosticism?

Why does the Harry Potter series terrify parents? Is it horrible if children know that there's a fantasy world of magic, or IF they can make the more cognitive connections, that witchcraft is out there?

As an atheist, I would not prevent my child from reading books which presented religion or a diety as a good thing, or books that presented atheism as a bad thing, or books that taught about ideas outside of whatever. If my child wanted to go to church, I would not prevent it. If they wanted to read the bible, I would buy them one. I would hope that my child understands there are different things that are right for different people, and eventually gathers the information needed to make the decision that is right for them... whether it aligns with my personal beliefs is irrelevant. What's right for me isn't right for everyone, and everyone includes my own family.

I know change is possible because I used to believe in God... then I grew up. :tongue2:

Slam...or timeline?

Just being overly sensitive here...but I'm reading that as a slam.

Am I child because I believe?

Or are you saying that as soon as you became an adult you stopped believing?

I think what Glouc was trying to say is that religious belief is a very personal thing. For many Christians, it is what defines their lives. I would think that athesists can't really say the same thing. I mean, how can not believing in something be the central tenant in one's life? There are a lot of things I don't believe in....let's take BrandyII's great pumpkin (I know it's a joke, :tongue2:. If Brandy insulted me for not believing in the GP...whatever. But to a true believer it's a huge issue.

At least I think that's what Glouc was getting at. And as for loving athesists...Christians try, but some athesists make it very difficult.

Thank you, yes. That was my line of thought. I had to bow out last night to attend real life for a little while. :thumbup:

Being a person is very personal, who I am is very personal to me as, I would assume, it should be to you. Believeing that your belief's are more personal than mine just points out the arrogance of many Christians. Odd how that sort of thinking is not seen as insulting but disagreeing with it is, I guess the blinders do have an impact on thinking.

I do love you however and hope that you are able to one day achieve rational thought. You can not know how wonderful it is to be able to think for yourself and begin to understand the exciting complexity of the universe.

I know that some will now be mad and decide I am a vile person but they will not see any paralels to that statement and an earlier christian post.

Being a person is very personal, who I am is very personal to me as, I would assume, it should be to you. Believeing that your belief's are more personal than mine just points out the arrogance of many Christians. Odd how that sort of thinking is not seen as insulting but disagreeing with it is, I guess the blinders do have an impact on thinking.

I do love you however and hope that you are able to one day achieve rational thought. You can not know how wonderful it is to be able to think for yourself and begin to understand the exciting complexity of the universe.

I know that some will now be mad and decide I am a vile person but they will not see any paralels to that statement and an earlier christian post.

I'm not trying to be as arrogant as the person telling me I have no rational thought.

Being so irrational, it's extremely amazing that I see the parrallels to the previous post.

Funny thing, though...I believe science and religion work hand in hand. I'm not anti-science, or anti-darwin. I simply believe that there are things far greater than that, and that there is a creator. I don't know who, or what.

But, for me - how can it not be more personal for a deep believer than a non-believer? In that statement, I'm trully am not trying to take away from what you believe or don't believe. I'm simply saying take an example of a monk in discussion with your average athiest Joe. I think the concept of religion is going to mean more to the Monk than Joe.

The reverse is true, too, I imagine. If you take a well established athiest scientist vs. me, I'd be less personal about it. I believe in science, but I image the scientist who's devoted a whole life to it would be more wrapped up in it. I admit I'm ignorant in that area and I would think the science for him/her would be far more meaningful than it is to me.

When someone lives their life for something/someone - anything - it's more meaningful and more deeply personal than to someone who just has a passing theory on it. It becomes an extension of who you are.

If being an athiest is as proud and meaningful for you as God is to a devout Christian, then I am sorry for the unintended arrogance of my presumption.

Slam...or timeline?

Just being overly sensitive here...but I'm reading that as a slam.

Am I child because I believe?

Or are you saying that as soon as you became an adult you stopped believing?

You most certainly are being overly sensitive. If WE simply say we lack belief in your god you have turned that into something where we are insulting you personally. Get over it for goodness sakes. One does not choose to lack belief, one chooses to believe. There isn't a shred of proof your God exists yet you choose to believe in him anyway.

I do not choose to believe in little blue fairies. It is what it is.

If one does believe in little blue fairies against all science and logic, THEY choose to believe in little blue fairies. One does not "choose" to lack belief in something that does not have proof of existence, if there is no proof it exists and one believes anything, THAT is a choice.

If we merely state our stance on this issue you have turned it into a huge pity party for yourself to the point that it is more of an insult for you to be called an idiot than us. You have tried to defend how childish name calling is more of an insult for you because you believe. Yet you have failed to accomplish this. You have managed to essentially say that it is more acceptable to call us idiots vs. yourself. You have put yourself above us when you do this and then you accuse us of putting ourselves above you.

You have twisted, turned, and manipulated the entire conversation into a Christian persecution kind of issue and quite frankly, it isn't. We do not agree with you. So what? Who cares? Why is it a personal slam to you that we lack belief?

Bottom line, there isn't a single bit of proof your God exists, if there was you wouldn't need faith, you'd have facts. Just because we do not believe the same as you does not mean we are insulting you.

Taking things personally... again, it goes back to the post where you asked a general question. Does it make us angry when the insults start flying. I responded no, I'm used to it and I consider the source. You even took that as a slam against you. WTH?

All in all, not too many people are buying your pity party here. I think this whole thing really does boil down to the fact that if we are honest about how WE feel about OUR lack of belief, YOU take that as a personal insult. People will continue to agree and disagree with you about a variety of topics in your life. If you choose to take it personally each and every time, you will find yourself battling the world for the rest of your days.

Being a person is very personal, who I am is very personal to me as, I would assume, it should be to you. Believeing that your belief's are more personal than mine just points out the arrogance of many Christians. Odd how that sort of thinking is not seen as insulting but disagreeing with it is, I guess the blinders do have an impact on thinking.

I do love you however and hope that you are able to one day achieve rational thought. You can not know how wonderful it is to be able to think for yourself and begin to understand the exciting complexity of the universe.

I know that some will now be mad and decide I am a vile person but they will not see any paralels to that statement and an earlier christian post.

There is no way Gloucester is going to see what you are trying to convey. I'm telling you, it isn't going to ring true. Watch, you'll see.

There is no forest there, the trees are in the way.

There is no way Gloucester is going to see what you are trying to convey. I'm telling you, it isn't going to ring true. Watch, you'll see.

There is no forest there, the trees are in the way.

Wow...speaking for me, and insulting me.

I'm so impressed with your ability to think rationally, that I'm almost as speechless as I wish you were.

Just got caught up on this thread ... As a Christian (Catholic) - there is nothing an Athiest can say to get me upset or feel attacked. The don't believe - so be it, personal choice - as is mine to feel confident in my religion & what it provides for me.

You get to choose what offends your or not - there is "turn the other cheek". I've enjoyed reading the Athiest view, helps me understand my friend a bit better - in no way will I be a convert; the debate can continue w/out taking things too personal *** and this is directed to no one person in particular ***

. People will continue to agree and disagree with you about a variety of topics in your life. If you choose to take it personally each and every time, you will find yourself battling the world for the rest of your days.

This is my whole point about taking it personally because it actually MEANS SOMETHING TO ME on a deeper level than I think you can fathom. I don't take every insult personally, because there are many things I care nothing about, and just let it roll off my back.

My daughter means something to me. If someone insulted her, I'd take it personally.

My job is means something. If someone insulted my job performance, I'd take that personally.

My God means something to me, and to have him reduced to a cracked-pot theory is insulting to me. How can you not see that, or care about that? You fling insult after insult and then say get over it? WTH?

Blue fairies mean nothing. I would not insult someone or try to make them believe something different for believing in blue fairies, ghosts, palm readers...etc, even though I don't believe in that. It probably means more to them than what I think.

My complaint is that Christians are being called ON THIS THREAD:

- ignorant

- not capable of rational thought

- superstitious

- overly sensitive

That is just a fact, not an overly sensitive perception on my part.

Just got caught up on this thread ... As a Christian (Catholic) - there is nothing an Athiest can say to get me upset or feel attacked. The don't believe - so be it, personal choice - as is mine to feel confident in my religion & what it provides for me.

You get to choose what offends your or not - there is "turn the other cheek". I've enjoyed reading the Athiest view, helps me understand my friend a bit better - in no way will I be a convert; the debate can continue w/out taking things too personal *** and this is directed to no one person in particular ***

Thank you...you're 100% right.

I have a hard time not taking things that mean the most to me personally, but I gotta learn that other cheek thing.

How's that go again? You bash someone over the head, then run?

No...wait...that's not it...

Thank you...you're 100% right.

I have a hard time not taking things that mean the most to me personally, but I gotta learn that other cheek thing.

How's that go again? You bash someone over the head, then run?

No...wait...that's not it...

something like that:tongue:

This is my whole point about taking it personally because it actually MEANS SOMETHING TO ME on a deeper level than I think you can fathom. I don't take every insult personally, because there are many things I care nothing about, and just let it roll off my back.

My daughter means something to me. If someone insulted her, I'd take it personally.

My job is means something. If someone insulted my job performance, I'd take that personally.

My God means something to me, and to have him reduced to a cracked-pot theory is insulting to me. How can you not see that, or care about that? You fling insult after insult and then say get over it? WTH?

Blue fairies mean nothing. I would not insult someone or try to make them believe something different for believing in blue fairies, ghosts, palm readers...etc, even though I don't believe in that. It probably means more to them than what I think.

My complaint is that Christians are being called ON THIS THREAD:

- ignorant

- not capable of rational thought

- superstitious

- overly sensitive

That is just a fact, not an overly sensitive perception on my part.

No, that is not true. Christians are not being called overly sensitive YOU are being called overly sensitive and not because you are a Christian but because all we have to do is explain how WE feel about the belief and you take it as a personal slam.

The rest... where would one even start?

No, that is not true. Christians are not being called overly sensitive YOU are being called overly sensitive and not because you are a Christian but because all we have to do is explain how WE feel about the belief and you take it as a personal slam.

The rest... where would one even start?

I would request that you not start with ignorant, irrational, or superstition. But, I'm sure you don't care what I think.

And, I have only been speaking for me. I don't like that Christians have been called names and dismissed as cracked-pot theories on this thread. (And, it has just become Christian vs Athiest - why? What are you so against Christians?)

I'm over sensitive that way, so be it. Some have a thicker hide than me, I get emotional over commercials, what can I say?

You're not saying, "I think God doesn't exist." You're saying, "I think God doesn't exist and you are silly, irrational and ignorant" for believing God does exist.

How can one not go on the defensive with broad statements like that?

I have never attacked your belief or non-belief, and I have apologized for dismissing it as being non-personal to you.

Obviously it is or you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread, correct?

You continue to miss the point, it is the tree's!!!!!!

Gloucester- I don't think that there is any other way you can put it than what you already have. I've read your posts and feel it exactly describes the emotional aspect of believing and how it's different than the science aspect of not believing.

I think the fact that there isn't a deep rooted emotional belief, there is lack of understanding of what that feels like. Your example of being willing to die for the belief is perfect! How many atheists would die for their non belief? Ya'll might think dying for something or nothing is silly, but to believers, there's substance there.

The fact is, unless you have felt religion's effects, you will never "get it". If I ask you how salt tastes, your response is salty, are there other ways to describe it? Just like if someone asks how religious feelings (or the holy spirit or whatever you want to call it) feels, there aren't accurate words. It's the same thing. Just because you can't describe it or see it (although, I believe there is logic to believing) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.