My online persona has been the Anti-Chick forever, for a reason. I was very much a tomboy growing up, and my mother was never good at the girl-fu stuff either, so I got no help from that arena.

So now that I'm in my mid-to-late-40's I'm trying to learn how to do all the girl stuff. Hair, makeup, fashion, etc. The whole concept of this color analysis stuff is throwing me for a loop, though. And there seems to be several different schools of thought on the subject.

Since pretty much every article of clothing I own is going to have to be replaced, and my career is heading for the management arena, I think that this is an ideal time for me to put some extra effort into understanding all of this stuff, and getting help where I need it.

For the old-school color seasons stuff, I seem to be a pretty cut-and-dried Summer, kinda. I was a blonde as a child, it's turned into an ashey light brown as I've aged (adding in some cool red and covering up the grey/silver thanks to my stylist) with light blue/grey/greenish eyes. But I look way washed out if I wear any pastel or "dusty" colors. I look better in brights and saturated colors. (look at me using all the color terminology and all. LOL) I stay pretty safe if I stick to saturated blues/purples/teals and most deep wine/burgundy looks really nice on me, but then my closet tends to look very monochromatic.

But a friend of mine turned me on to another concept, "Dressing Your Truth" that looks more at personality and "shapes" in the face than coloring, and I'm flat out a Type 4 which is supposed to correspond to Winter in the standard color seasons. And I do look good in the high contrast blue/black red/black kind of outfit.

And I just read a book by David Zyla which says I should create a color palette based on the colors of my skin/eyes/hair, and doing that I should apparently never wear black. And should I use my natural hair colors, or the dyed ones I prefer? I already never wear black up next to my face without other colors because it's too stark against my skin, but the DYT model says black is a great color for me.

And don't get me started on makeup. I despise the stuff because it seems the shades are never the right ones for me. There isn't a nude that doesn't look orange on my lip, or a red that doesn't look ridiculous. I've given up and never wear anything that doesn't say "berry" in the color name, but even those aren't quite right. Blush is just flat-out a non-starter because it always looks harsh and like clown makeup. I keep thinking it's because I'm not getting the right colors, but I'm so pale that there's very few shades I can even attempt. It's on my list to schedule a makeover/consultation thing at Ulta or Sephora, but I feel like I should have some clue about basic colors first.

Is there a way to navigate this mess? I'm willing to even pay for a color/fashion consultation, but is there a way to know what school of thought a consultant uses, and which is best? How does one go about finding a good consultant?

What do you LIKE? What makes you feel GOOD? What are you most COMFORTABLE in?

Many years ago I sold BeautiControl cosmetics just for the discount and a little extra money. We did the color/seasons thing and I'm a winter - clothing-wise - bold, jewel tones look best on me and they happen to be the same colors I'm most comfortable in and that my eye is drawn to. I do wear some things that don't fall into that palette just because I like it. When it comes to lipstick and nail color, I choose a BLUE based color because that works best for my skin tone (olive-tans easily). I'm a graying brunette who colors her hair with the closest color to my natural (for frizz control). With foundation and concealer, I wear Almay 200 foundation and 020 concealer because it is the closest to matching my skin tone and it's the formula that (supposedly) adjusts to your skin tone.

All that being said, I hope some of it helps. I would like to suggest that before you go to Ulta or Sephora for a make-up session (some places charge you for their time), reach out to a Mary Kay or BeautiControl consultant - they do it for free (at least that's been my experience). They get some training in the product as do the Clinique and others, unlike most Avon reps.

Have fun with it!!! You'll get the hang of it all!!

You seem to have invented a new sport or dance, "Put Yourself through the Wringer, Cha-Cha-Cha." It's a good thing you've lost oodles of weight, otherwise the wringer would be painful in the extreme.

I'm barely aware that that "seasonal palette" analysis is still done. It was all the rage about 30-35 years ago and either never went away or has been resurrected more recently. I didn't to it, but it's not at all a bad guide -- for starters. You're still free to wear colors that you like but that the 'expert' hasn't included on your palette. The only colors to avoid are the ones that are obviously unflattering. You'll best make your own determinations as you go along if you have a friend take pics of you in colors you're unsure of (selfies are too close up and usually at awkward angles; the ones taken in mirrors are just as useless). Put the garment on, take the pic, put the pic aside for a couple of days, then look at it while trying to see it as someone other than you. Not easy, but doable with some practice. Use the too-large things in your closet for the photo purpose to minimize running around to stores or doing mail order with no intention of buying just yet. As important as choosing your best colors is not to make the process completely hateful. If you go ahead with one of these "seasonal" people, you'll be given a color chart that you can take along when you shop in-store.

"Dressing Your Truth" sounds dumb to me. While your personality is solid gold, the colors that express it may clash with your complexion. Colors that you love that don't "work" can be sneaked in via accessories. Put your personality into your public presentation with accessories,* up to and including eyeglass frames (that is not a comment either way on the ones in your photo).

I say work with the hair color (it's gorgeous, exactly what I want but would look ludicrous on me) that shows, not the one its hiding. The Zyla recommendation of basing color choices on your skin/eye/hair colors isn't so far off from the older plan that uses the names of the seasons.

For makeup, consider the Bobbi Brown counter at a dept. store. Classic Bobbi Brown approach has been good for women who are no longer Sweet 16. I've always thought of their ads and promos as showing very much the French view of makeup -- tones that work with the complexion, enhance features, play up the best parts (whether cheekbones or anything else), with a basically neutral palette and subtle color. In more recent years, I think Brown has jazzed up, which can be mixed with her classic look (which is to say, timeless, elegant and ready for anything -- maybe think Catherine Deneuve), if you prefer. Next time you're in a waiting room, thumb through French Vogue or a magazine with a layout of some fashion shows in Paris. I'm suggesting Bobbi Brown for your moving more into the mgmt/exec area at work. No matter what, be free to incorporate some of the personal/personality touches.

Take care of the makeup thing first so that your clothing choices go with the public face.

I hope I addressed your concerns and, despite the length, helped simplify things.

@@theantichick

Wow hun. Take a deep breath *smile*

Be your own awesome. Some suggestions to bring out your inner girly girl. find what works for you. Keep it simple.

Clothing:

The professional work clothing section. Try things on. It's about the fit, comfort and how it flatters your body. You can keep it classic don't buy too many trendy pieces. Trends fade.

Make up:

Before you go to your consult with Sephora - Here are a few makeup tutorials to watch. It may help you get familiar with products and terms--Makeup has changed a lot since I was younger. These just give you Ideas for women in their 40's (lol no false eyelashes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fYNhngeAhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL6JOFUVcOI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1MgFTNaws

I have invested in a few expensive products (gifts to myself) But the majority drug store

I use loreal true match Lumi foundation. Great for moisture on mature skin. It lights up you face. Does not cake. I use a sponge beauty blender and elf brushes- (purchased at Walmart cheap) When they talk about primers.You can just use a good moisturizer.

The high-end cosmetics have better pigments wich will last all day. Find what you want to invest in.

Best of luck. Try to have fun with this stuff.

Yeah, I over-analyze EVERYTHING. LOL. But with the money I'm about to start laying out for a professional wardrobe, I'd like to do a better job than what I've done in the past. I've hit on a few things over the years that look fabulous, and I get a TON of compliments when I wear them. But it's been very hit and miss. And my overall closet looks very mish-mash. Well, right this second it looks incredibly sparse because I'm down to like 4 decent tops for work and 2 pairs of slacks and 2 pairs of jeans. But before I started culling the stuff that was too big, it was all over the place. Nothing coherent, awful to try and pull together a good looking outfit, much less several. One of the things I miss about bedside nursing is that clothing is easy - scrubs and scrubs and scrubs. LOL. But since I'm now working toward management positions, I want to look a little more pulled together.

I like the Bobbi Brown makeup look, very natural. For every day, I want something that makes me look polished but not overdone. For going out, I like a dramatic eye, but I haven't figured out how to do it without looking like I went a round and a half with Mike Tyson. LOL. And I've watched tons of videos on youTube, but I can't seem to make my hands do what the cutie on the computer is doing. Sephora carries Bobbi Brown, so I think I'll schedule that sooner rather than later.

It doesn't help that I HATE shopping and trying on clothes. I swear, I'm missing the girl-fu gene entirely. LOL. And I'm not rich enough for a personal stylist and shopper.

I am not going to be any help at all. But, I want to contribute something. Mrs. LittleBill will often ask me, "How does this look?" I say fine, even before I have looked. I have the bruises to prove it. Good luck, and there are many people here way more qualified to help you than me.

OMG. Got home where I could actually watch the videos. Holy Hannah, how long do you ladies spend on your makeup every day? I've never seen so many layers of stuff! I use: BB cream all over, blush if I can find something that works, 3 shades of eye shadow (brow, lid, crease), 2 coats of mascara, and a swipe of a (theoretical) all day lip color. Maybe some basic eyeliner and loose powder to set the look if I'm not rushed for time. What in the name of all that's holy IS all that stuff they're using?

sent from mobile device

I'm laughing so hard...I just adore you <3

First, the clothing color thing: Yes, there are colors that are ideal for each of us, but don't put ANY color entirely off limits. There is a shade of every one that can work on every person. We have very similar complexions and hair color...I'm a dark blonde with green eyes and fair, sun-sensitive skin. I have my hair highlighted with neutral/warm light blonde. I can wear ANY color, honestly, but I don't like blue so I generally only wear blue if it's denim. Wine, burgundy, gold, yellow-greens...they're my wheelhouse, but I also wear black and cream quite well. The only color that I think I don't look good in is white, and is that even a color? And I'm not a pastel fan, they look too kiddie to me most of the time. I'm a HUGE Ann Taylor fan, in part because they do a sort of color 'story' each season...you can buy almost anything in the store and it coordinates with many other pieces from that season. Fall/winter this year was wine/navy/dusty pink/cream/grey. Winter/spring seems to be navy/emerald/white/gold. Their prints are fun but not too trendy, so they can carry over for a few years. The fabrics are delightful...I hate cheap fabric and I'd rather have one *great* pair of AT pants than 10 from most anywhere else. banana Republic has nice things, too, as does J. Crew, but I think they're both grossly overpriced for the quality. Sales are my friend at all 3 of these stores

Makeup: I second WLSResource's suggestion of Bobbi Brown, at a department store. I'm a Sephora VIB so you can tell I shop there way too often, but I know makeup and I don't need much help so it works well for me. The girls at Sephora are great and enthusiastic, but if you go to the Bobbi Brown counter at a Nordstrom or Macy's, you get someone who knows their product well and will know what they have that will suit you best. It's subtle, natural makeup that works well on slightly older skin. You can get a full makeover done if you want and they're not super high-pressure about selling the product, in my experience. I wear a lot of Bobbi, although I'm a lipstick/lip gloss junkie and cheat on her with many, many other brands of lip products and I also love Dior mascara, although BB makes a good long-wear version, it's just not my fav. BB's concealer, blush and particularly eye liners are top-notch and I can't imagine not using them. I also like Marc Jacobs eyeliner pencil...smooooooooth like buutter, doesn't drag at all and doesn't need any blending or softening.

I don't do the 27 steps so many do with their daily makeup routine. I don't wear foundation at all, I've always had good skin and just don't need it. I use a great moisturizer and also follow with argan oil. I don't use any primers, I hate the way they feel on my skin. I do concealer, eye shadow, eye liner, lash primer, mascara. Then a quick sweep of blush and I'm done. Literally 10 mins, if I take my time, 5 if I'm in a hurry. I used to use powder but my skin looks younger without it. I dye my brows so I don't have that step to deal with daily.

I wish we all lived near each other, it would be so fun to go shopping and makeup trying-on together

@@ShelterDog64 Hey, if I can't laugh at myself... LOL.

Thanks for the tips. I'll check out the makeup at Macy's then. I've been looking through a lot of Pinterest stuff, and I think I want to go for a Katharine Hepburn kind of style for professional stuff. I'm tall enough to carry it off, and I think it strikes the balance I want. We'll see if I can actually FIND clothes like that though.

I can totally relate!! Never really big in makeup. Haven't got a clue. Max is eyeliner and mascara. I stopped buying it because the stuff was past expiration date by the time I would go to use it again. Know that it is expected when I go back to work...

Loving people's advice!!

My other girl-fu fail, is clothes too. My husband helps me! He is really helpful at picking clothes that make me look good. I have no idea how to dress myself. Waiting until I hit nadir to get a new wardrobe. For now looking for inspiration on Pintrest.

Have a honest friend with good fashion sense?

Good luck at work! Let us know how things go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using the BariatricPal App

I can totally relate!! Never really big in makeup. Haven't got a clue. Max is eyeliner and mascara. I stopped buying it because the stuff was past expiration date by the time I would go to use it again. Know that it is expected when I go back to work...

Loving people's advice!!

My other girl-fu fail, is clothes too. My husband helps me! He is really helpful at picking clothes that make me look good. I have no idea how to dress myself. Waiting until I hit nadir to get a new wardrobe. For now looking for inspiration on Pintrest.

Have a honest friend with good fashion sense?

Good luck at work! Let us know how things go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using the BariatricPal App

I have to start hitting some resale shops to get me through because I'm almost out of clothes. The only reason I have work clothes is because I am HORRIBLE to try and fit in pants. Tall, huge hips, relatively small waist. So almost 20 years ago when Lane Bryant had a style of pant that worked for me, and I outgrew them, I packed them away in the back of my closet because "I'll get back in them someday". Well, almost 2 decades later, I finally have. Once they're too loose for me, I am going to make a couple of drawstring maxi skirts to get me through until I'm at goal, because I am NOT going through the hell of finding pants to fit me until I'm at goal. LOL. But I'm down to those slacks, and about 4, maybe 5 tops I can still wear that look decent, but most of those are bordering on ridiculously too big. So I have to buy some things so I don't go to work nekkid. LOL. So while this will not be my final wardrobe, I want to start training my eye for colors/styles that are flattering. I will graduate with my master's in December, and should be to goal by then, and my career should shift into at least management at that point with the potential to end up in the C-Suite. So I really need to start looking more pulled together and polished than I have as a lowly programmer/analyst by end of year.

@@theantichick

My step-daughter sent me some of the tutorial videos after I hit goal. I was surprised myself. Who knew how much makeup had changed since I was in my 20's.

I keep mine simple. Lotion, foundation...Nude eyes shadow.( I like urban decay) Mascara. brow gel. Bit of blush I'm out the door.

@@theantichick

My makeup routine never was complicated or time-consuming. Now that I'm older (as in old), I've been thinking of going to a counter for pointers on what to use and how. Its a good idea for anyone now and then because it's so easy to get in a rut and just lose steam and ideas. I didn't know that Sephora sells various brands, having been under the impression that it's a private-label chain store.

I just remembered that department stores (above Penny & Sears level) have people called personal shoppers or something else. They have their own offices/dressing space and, once they have an idea of what you need and want and what sizes you should try, will actually do the footwork and have things ready in their own areas when you've arranged an appointment in advance. At any rate, I think the service still exists. If not, most of the "better" stores should have some service that cuts down on the confusion and all for those who hate to shop and especially those whose bodies have changed drastically. There never was an extra charge for the service. Keep in mind that such staff in any stores that pay commission will pressure you to buy more than you plan. Do any stores pay on commission any more? Anyway, call the stores in your area to see what they offer.

Edited January 12, 20179 yr by WLSResources/ClothingExch

I think I may have invented Girl-Fu, having worn makeup since 3rd grade (it was play makeup but that didn't stop me from wearing it to school). Later I worked for Lancôme and another cosmetic company as well as at clothing stores. I agree with some of the advice given already.

For makeup, I wholeheartedly recommend going to a MAC or Smashbox counter and having your makeup done. Make an appointment; you can go more than once to try different looks. The makeup application is free though the expectation is that you buy at least one item (lipstick is cheap and it's impossible to not find at least one shade that you like ). The point is that both of these companies are branded on being makeup artist based. They teach their staff the latest in make application and are more than willing to teach customers how to replicate the looks (since they want to you to buy it all). Unless it has changed in recent years, MAC does not pay commission, they pay higher than average salaries and thus have more skilled makeup artists.

For clothing, I agree with the Ann Taylor advice but with conditions. Do not let the teeny boppers that sometimes work there dress you. How could they possibly understand corporate dress for a woman in her 40s. So scope out the sales clerks and work with the one that you like how they have styled themselves. Additionally, this will sound familiar, make an appointment at a high end department store (Bloomingdales, Nordstrom, etc). They all offer personal shopper services and again you don't have to buy everything, just something. I used to have them help me with suits and what's not to love? Large private dressing rooms where everyone there waits on you, free refreshments, they send for the alterations person at the end of the appointment and then a week later your perfectly tailored clothes show up at your house. Seriously, people who say they hate shopping are doing it wrong.

Congrats on your new management opportunity.

PS- Ann Taylor sells Tall inseam pants online but go into the store to find your cut (though it sounds like you would wear a Kate style pant). [emoji158]

@@erp **For clothing, I agree with the Ann Taylor advice but with conditions. Do not let the teeny boppers that sometimes work there dress you. How could they possibly understand corporate dress for a woman in her 40s. So scope out the sales clerks and work with the one that you like how they have styled themselves.**

Oh, yes. I was at the AT in Bellevue the other day and a girl who I SWEAR had to be skipping her 11th grade civics class to be working there asked if she could help me. I wasn't sure whether to ask her 'with WHAT?' or to just say 'I don't think that's possible'. Instead of either of those unwise choices, I just smiled and told her someone else was already helping me. Then I found my favorite 'seasoned' employee and worked with her Speaking of Katherine Hepburn, I got a gorgeous pair of winter white flannel trousers at AT for $20 (originally $98). They have them in the Kate fit that Erp mentioned and their Devin fit, which is a bit straighter. I used to be very big hip and butt/small waist but as I've lost weight after this surgery, I'm suddenly very slim (relatively, of course!) through the thigh/butt area. I actually wear the slimmer fit at AT!

I like the Smashbox suggestion, their products aren't my favorites but having one of their artists show you some tricks is worth buying a little something from them. They make an under-eye brightener that I wear instead of concealer sometimes, if that appeals. I've never had good luck with MAC, despite wanting to wear it and going several times for consultations. I usually end up with way too much product on and break out afterward. I'm still open to trying, though, and there are so many more free-standing stores now that I should probably give it another shot. They do GREAT eyes!