Mediterranean Style Eating

[LipstickLady 25,682]

@@BarrySue

I'd fist bump you, but I'm holding a piece of defenseless piece of salmon sushami. I know raw fish isn't as cute as a cow, but why do we assume that a broccoli plant doesn't have feelings?

[BarrySue 602]

@@BarrySue

I'd fist bump you, but I'm holding a piece of defenseless piece of salmon sushami. I know raw fish isn't as cute as a cow, but why do we assume that a broccoli plant doesn't have feelings?

The smell of fresh cut grass is actually the chemical distress call of plants and their response to negative stimuli. In essence, you can smell their screams. Remember that next time you walk past a rumbling lawnmower.

In all seriousness though, I absolutely understand the moral/ethical motivations behind a plant-based diet, as well as the potential health benefits (for some. One of the biggest reasons people return to meat is not simply hassle, but DIMINISHED HEALTH). It's fine to say "this is my experience." But if you're gonna say doctors/nurses are just dumb western robots who don't understand the nutrition, well...the gloves are off.

[Valentina 2,642]

Ladies! Do we need to get the Water hose to break this up? Please get down off of your hind legs and take a deep breath.

Are we all hear to share, support, listen and learn? Even if we do not always agree with another's opinion, aren't we at the same time "learning" that we really DO believe in our own beliefs and the reasons why we do (or eat) what we do?

I am a dairy farmer's daughter, so of course I eat red meat (I can and have slaughtered animals myself--such is the circle of life on a farm). I'm sure there are vegetarians who own leather shoes ,wallets, purses, or gloves, wear silk garments, have had sutures made of animal gut, or even had a flu shot--all of which comes from slaughtered animals. Yes, I loved cream in my coffee and butter on my home made bread. I am also severely allergic to all legumes--especially anything soy. Try balancing all of that with a successful post sleeve diet. But ya know what? I thoroughly enjoy reading how other's are coping with their up bringing, their day to day diet pre surgery, and how they are or are planning to adapt those eating habits for the "new life" of post bariatric surgery.

Our minds should never be soo closed that there is no room for a new idea or thought. It may not prove to be right for you, but one can never be over informed.

Be kind, patient, listen, absorb whatever will benefit you, and store the rest in the archives of your mind for a later discussion.

Diversity is what this country is all about. We are all free to speak as we wish, worship as we wish, go where we wish and even eat what we wish---as long as we do no harm. I think that is a pretty good mantra to live by.

[EP8 9]

There are bariatric surgeons that advocate plant based lives. To each their own. What matters is ones health right? People achieve health in different ways. Of course someone would get defensive and act all crazy. Chill people!!

[sleevedinseptember 69]

For whatever reason, discussions about food that essentially ask people to make hard and fast decisions or choices tend to get heated. It doesn't have to be that way - it's all in the approach. I do think that on some subconscious level, people feel indicted or somehow judged by the choices that others make even when that is not the intention. I found when I ate a vegan diet for the period I described previously, I had to defend my choice to eat that way. I did not go around lording it over anyone or trying to convert people but eating can be a very social thing and questions are bound to come up.

Some people can definitely be too sanctimonious about their choices - but the other side of it is people getting defensive about their preference even though they have not been directly accused of wrong doing.

As a random aside, my wls surgeon advocates that at about 6 months post op patients should move away from eating beef, pork, chicken and dairy. He encourages intake of vegetables, fish, Beans, nuts, seeds and fruit with the goal being to eat high nutrient lower calorie dense foods. It's something that I think can work for me but fully accept that others will not want to do it or feel good doing it.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

I am a card carrying member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals). I try to eat lean cuts of meat, mostly chicken breast or ground chicken or turkey.

There is nothing wrong if someone wants to practice a vegetarian diet. They should just make sure they get their appropriate daily intake of Protein from non "dead bodies of helpless, slaughtered animals".

Edited February 8, 2016 by 4MRB4PHOTO

[BarrySue 602]

For whatever reason, discussions about food that essentially ask people to make hard and fast decisions or choices tend to get heated. It doesn't have to be that way - it's all in the approach. I do think that on some subconscious level, people feel indicted or somehow judged by the choices that others make even when that is not the intention. I found when I ate a vegan diet for the period I described previously, I had to defend my choice to eat that way. I did not go around lording it over anyone or trying to convert people but eating can be a very social thing and questions are bound to come up.

Some people can definitely be too sanctimonious about their choices - but the other side of it is people getting defensive about their preference even though they have not been directly accused of wrong doing.

As a random aside, my wls surgeon advocates that at about 6 months post op patients should move away from eating beef, pork, chicken and dairy. He encourages intake of vegetables, fish, Beans, nuts, seeds and fruit with the goal being to eat high nutrient lower calorie dense foods. It's something that I think can work for me but fully accept that others will not want to do it or feel good doing it.

For me, this isn't a matter of "stop liking what I don't like!"

This is a matter of someone going beyond "the vegetarian path worked for me." It directly trashes the medical profession, as well as advocates for a lifestyle that is exceptionally difficult to maintain, disregards the long-standing advice of doctors/nutritionists, perpetuates pseudo-science, and takes thinly-veiled potshots and side jabs at others. Advice that has the potential to be dangerous matters, and deserves appropriate criticism.

As for the sarcasm, when you are deliberately provocative and continue to refer to meat as "dead animal flesh," expect a bit of tongue-in-cheek response.

[sleevedinseptember 69]

For whatever reason, discussions about food that essentially ask people to make hard and fast decisions or choices tend to get heated. It doesn't have to be that way - it's all in the approach. I do think that on some subconscious level, people feel indicted or somehow judged by the choices that others make even when that is not the intention. I found when I ate a vegan diet for the period I described previously, I had to defend my choice to eat that way. I did not go around lording it over anyone or trying to convert people but eating can be a very social thing and questions are bound to come up.

Some people can definitely be too sanctimonious about their choices - but the other side of it is people getting defensive about their preference even though they have not been directly accused of wrong doing.

As a random aside, my wls surgeon advocates that at about 6 months post op patients should move away from eating beef, pork, chicken and dairy. He encourages intake of vegetables, fish, Beans, nuts, seeds and fruit with the goal being to eat high nutrient lower calorie dense foods. It's something that I think can work for me but fully accept that others will not want to do it or feel good doing it.

For me, this isn't a matter of "stop liking what I don't like!"

This is a matter of someone going beyond "the vegetarian path worked for me." It directly trashes the medical profession, as well as advocates for a lifestyle that is exceptionally difficult to maintain, disregards the long-standing advice of doctors/nutritionists, perpetuates pseudo-science, and takes thinly-veiled potshots and side jabs at others. Advice that has the potential to be dangerous matters, and deserves appropriate criticism.

As for the sarcasm, when you are deliberately provocative and continue to refer to meat as "dead animal flesh," expect a bit of tongue-in-cheek response.

I can definitely see why the language would cause offense and it's a pity because I do think there is a good point to be made and discussion to be had about the current state of our food, the standard American diet and even the nutrition guidelines given by bariatric surgeons.

I think for me I am able to look past the inflammatory statements because my interest in eating a vegetarian or vegan diet does not stem from moral or ethical concerns really. So I don't get on that high horse. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't think it's okay that so many animals are kept in deplorable conditions and force fed foods/given things that are causing issues in humans like antibiotics with poultry etc.

I come at it from reading scientific research that is increasingly suggesting that consumption of animal products maybe detrimental to health. Some of the people saying this are bariatric surgeons who themselves have treated thousands of patients and have data to back up their assertions.

So I get the ire, but I also can see the original point being lost in the flames.

[Valentina 2,642]

Isn't the whole point of bariatric surgery--self care???

Well, why don't we all get back to that central point?

We share our ideas, our successes, our failures and our dreams.

After that it is up to EACH one of us to cherry pick from other's statements and experiences and to apply or not apply those into our own lives--

SELF CARE.

Please, stop already with the bitch slapping and start appreciating our different opinions.

Valentina

[Dub 9,922]

Dr. Weiner advocates for a plant-based diet. I'm 3 weeks post-op so very new. But before surgery I ate no meat and dairy and still don't. I follow Dr. Weiners advice. I think those who choose a plant based life can meet every nutritional goal they need.

Every single time I listen to weiner..........I get myself into trouble.

Every time, I tell ya.

[redemmy 8]

For as much as people complain about "chemicals" and "toxins" in their food, they are awfully quick to buy into another set of meaningless dietary buzzwords like "natural" and "clean," trading one ideology for another. People are also so quick to dismiss doctors who underwent 11-14 years of education/training/residency, and dieticians/scientists who devote their lives to the art and practice of nutrition as "Western Medicine" ignorants and corporate fatcats. You are free to make your own choices, but "instinct" and "intuition" doesn't mean you somehow possess secret, ancient knowledge beyond the scope of the medical profession.

Doctors advocate Protein, which comes in the form of Protein shakes (not dead animal flesh, I couldn't start feasting on adorable, defenseless animals until two months out). High Protein can be done on non-meats, however they often require a higher quantity of consumption (which puts stress/stretch on sleeves), and the cost/inconvenience/familiarity/cultural preference often has people going with a grilled chicken breast over a complicated veggie casserole that often contains more starch/carbs than it does protein. A meat-heavy diet is not doctors failing to understand the basic tenets of veganism; it is a matter of function and convenience, because those are the most effective ways of maintaining a long-term plan. In a range of studies, 75%-84% of vegans/vegetarians return to eating meat, so doctors are reluctant or resistant to advocating it to patients who are already experiencing extreme stress and an upheaval of life.

Wanna go vegetarian? Wanna go full vegan? Find that you function well deviating from the typical post-OP plan? Awesome. More power to you. But don't come in here peddling ideological beliefs and anecdotes in food/medicine as legitimate science or die-hard fact. "Healthy" food companies are just as quick to capitalize on your fears (and typically spend big money to put out misleading news articles and pseudo-science articles to take your money).

Next time you go to Whole Foods, check out the box of the next Natural Organic Non-GMO* product. Pay strict attention to the asterisk. It is usually accompanied by a disclaimer that there is no benefit to consumption as measurable/detectable by scientific study.

As a nurse with a strong background in nutrition, it's great that patients are empowered and invested in their own health. But fact isn't something you "believe" in. It exists regardless of what you think or not. So please think twice before you advocate for belief versus well-supported science and trash an entire profession as people that just don't understand your high and mighty, esoteric plane of consciousness.

And with that, I'm going to go eat some more salami.

Agree 1000%! Do you follow Scibabe on Facebook? Love love love her posts on the "food wars" - she advocates for science/research based informed decision making about food choices.

[Valentina 2,642]

Dub,

From everything I have read +/or seen, Weiner is far too obsessed with taking "selfies"...

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

Dub,

From everything I have read +/or seen, Weiner is far too obsessed with taking "selfies"...

"Weiner selfies"?

[Valentina 2,642]

Dub,

From everything I have read +/or seen, Weiner is far too obsessed with taking "selfies"...

"Weiner selfies"?

I guess one has to be from the North East or into Politics to get this. Sorry.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

Dub,

From everything I have read +/or seen, Weiner is far too obsessed with taking "selfies"...

"Weiner selfies"?

I guess one has to be from the North East or into Politics to get this. Sorry.

("Weiner" as in Anthony Weiner, the former Representative from N.Y.. Although the other way fits too - pun intended).