Enabling

[babsvt 20]

For some reason I found my way to this conversation and it is exactly what I needed to read. Thank you Laura for starting this thread.

I am a food addict that would hide food. I learned it from my father. The interesting thing I found out about myself was when I didn't hide cookies/cake (my heroin of choice), and left it out on full view, I didn't eat it.

I was sleeved 7/17 and since 7/1 have lost a total of 61.6 pounds. I'm feeling good but also know that it is a slippery slope. I absolutely cannot have any of my trigger foods around me. I am one bite away from bingeing.

Thank you all for sharing your insights and lessons. This was exactly what I needed to be reading at this moment in time.

[Seela 1,187]

I think there should be a section labeled 'Cheaters- Pre and post op'. That way we have more, warning, if you will and will enter into whine country willingly

[BKLYNgal87 503]

I wanted to share what I did at work yesterday. Can't seem to post pictures right now, what with the website maintenance, but here goes.

A post-it note taped to my computer monitor at work. It reads:

"Not Even One Bite!"

It was my fiance's suggestion He's a keeper for sure.

[No game 14,436]

Seela, I think it's a little more complicated than that.

It's not "us" and "them". We are them, they are us..

And if there wasn't the opposing conversation? I think there would be a lot more "failures". I did not come into this having it all figured out. **** I am still trying to figure it all out..

[clk 3,519]

It's most definitely more complicated than an us and them conversation, because many of us, at some point on our journey, are on either side of that line.

I do not know a single vet that hasn't slipped, ever. It's impossible to separate out "good vs. bad" when you're talking about food, something we all ingest daily.

I think there's a boundary here and that things that AREN'T enabling are being lumped in because to some people, it's a temptation. That's a personal issue. Someone gleefully posting that they ate a pizza, followed it up with ice cream and then washed it down with a soda - and then getting virtual pats on the back and likes for their post? That's enabling. That's also disgusting, quite frankly.

But there's a line. Because confessing that you ate something off and someone replying "It's not that bad, it's not the end of the world." I'm seeing people group THAT in as enabling, when more likely, that's a person trying to be positive and supportive. Because there are still people here (loads of them) that think support is ONLY positive and saying anything even remotely critical is being mean and unhelpful.

Hey, guess what? It may bother some people, but I still like food. I still love to bake. I'm sorry if the fact that I cooked something today that wasn't a green smoothie or grilled chicken breast makes someone want to go off the rails on a food orgy. The planning of menus and the preparing of food for my family or entertaining is a large part of my life. And yes, it balances in with my surgery. But I'm expected to keep any and all talk about that to myself, for fear of someone taking a nose dive into the candy bar aisle?

That's the part I disagree with.

Above all else, this site should be supportive. It should also be respectful. That means respecting that we're all individuals on individual journeys. Hey, let me tell you, some of these threads make me incredibly upset. Nobody should be saying it's okay to break surgeon guidelines or binge eat! I don't care what your friend or nutritionist or doctor told you. It's not okay behavior. But that's MY opinion. Because if someone wants to fail at this? That's not my issue. Oh, it'll make me upset and maybe angry and definitely frustrated with people. I might even rant about people not being educated before a major operation. If you want to eat a damned cheeseburger while you're healing, I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for your family. Because food is probably going to kill you if you can't get your act together.

Again, I like that you started this thread, Laura, but I still feel there is a huge amount of personal responsibility that comes into play. We're all behind computer screens. Nobody is holding anyone else's hand and leading them to the cookie jar. If you cannot get a grasp on YOUR OWN (and this is not directed at anyone specific) disordered eating, wake up! Because NOBODY, NOBODY is going to change your life but YOU.

Food is part of life. We cannot avoid it. Birthdays? Cake? Parties? Alcohol? These things are not going away because we opted to have surgery. Expecting nobody to post about how to incorporate these things into their lives (in a healthy way, hopefully!) is unfair. It's akin to expecting your non-sleeved husband to stick to a liquid diet with you because you chose to have surgery, or being angry that he can eat more than 500 calories a day when you can't. The world doesn't revolve around us!

I wish there were a way to separate it out. Overwhelmingly, I see people asking advice here about food and taking it from strangers on the internet. Really? Do you REALLY think it's okay to eat cake during healing just because someone, somewhere says that their surgeon said it was okay to have "just a little?" (That's enabling.) And why on earth do you really have to ask?! You know darn well cake isn't okay while you're healing! Post to lament the fact that you're missing out, post to ask what you can do instead, post a positive on what you'll do instead, but for goodness' sake, don't ask us to tell you it's okay when you know it's not. Invariably, there will be ONE person out there saying, "Oh yeah, sure, go ahead!"

The addict is looking for that one person. They'll skip the 22 "WTH are you thinking?" posts to go with the 1 that tells them what they want to hear. The person seeking support is looking to be told it'll be okay, so the 22 "WTH" and "It'll be okay" posts are encouraging and keep them on the right track. But you can't guess who's going to read it and what their intent beforehand is, so jumping in and saying those posts aren't okay at all isn't fair to the people that want a more moderate approach.

The biggest solution would have people educated prior to surgery, so they're not looking for validation and approval for their poor choices on the internet.

I can do moderation (usually...) despite having food addict behaviors. I will never overcome my addiction. I choose moderation, because deprivation makes me angry and resentful. I weigh daily and do not allow myself to fall off the wagon (at least not for long...) and I make the right choices more than 90% of the time. You know what? Three years out and there are stressful and "hungry" days when every single fast food sign I pass pulls on me and tempts me. I know darn well that McDonald's food tastes like crap but those golden arches still make me want their crappy food sometimes. It's up to ME to resist.

It boils down to personal responsibility. Posts make me angry. They make me sad. They bother me because people give stupid advice. How I choose to react is entirely up to me. The same goes for food. If we're going to blame food discussions for making us eat, let's lump in television, too. Because late night food commercials? They get me every time.

Laura reacted well. She chose to start a safe thread discussing what bothers her. It's some of the talk here that it's all enabling, or the idea that we all have to police one another that I find objectionable. Support, yes. Hard truth when needed, yes. Blunt truth when needed, yes. Policing or shutting down threads I don't agree with? No.

~Cheri

[Gojogo 55]

I have become addicted to this post lol. Thank you to all of you vets that take the time to share your wisdom! I fight every day with my addiction and I have to confess that I avoid posts where cheating and abuse of someone's sleeve is happening. I hate to have to admit this, but I feel I am only just able to keep myself on track. I feel I am being rather selfish not helping, but a couple of times when I have made comments, on another forum I was taken as being judgmental. I am rather a people pleaser so was horrified, when what I had said was taken as an attack. I realised that trying to help was putting me in a vulnerable position with my addiction. I was able to not revert back to old habits of binging but I had to really fight the urge. I think you vets that offer advice and give your time, whatever your style, be it straight to the point, or a softly approach, should be received as thoughtful and caring. I for one love learning from you all! As I have mentioned before therapy has made such a difference to me but reading what you vets post make me feel this is worth fighting for. PLEASE don't ever feel what you post is not valuable, beneficial, or adhered to, a novice like me would be lost without you.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Gojogo

[MySouthernSleeveRevival 9]

I have been thinking about this post all day!!! It is so many internal conversations I have had with myself. Again thanks so much for posting this and for ALL that responded. I have found so much value and truth to everyone's insight and experiences. I pray that my journey, the bad days and the good days, the days I may/will find myself on both sides of the issue will be with like minded and supported folk as ya'll. I want a balance and trying to find it all, is a journey I hope to be able to take with the vets on this forum. I'm VERY new to this site, however I see and value the experience here. Again thanks from a newbie that has her eyes wide open and open ears to take it all in

[gomekast 559]

I think there should be a section labeled 'Cheaters- Pre and post op'. That way we have more' date=' warning, if you will and will enter into whine country willingly [/quote']

Some days I would totally agree with this..and I totally get your point!

I think that would open a whole different can of worms other days.

I had a conversation yesterday about the whole enabling issue here, with my therapist(mostly because I wanted to understand of my own behavior at home with hubby whom needs and wants to lose some).

She said that a significant number of her patients are WLS patients. She said that the ones that begin testing the rules, limitations, and deciding their rebels etc..are the same people that have not and will not take the time to do the headwork that should go with any WLS. She said those are generally the people she knows will never get to goal and they fail their sleeve.

Again, this is just her professional opinion. But it really made me sit and sort of take stock that yes..I will need to diligently follow the rules..forever.

My program sets the rules out 8 years post op. But at every page it tells you this.."if you find yourself off track and feeling out of control please contact our office and we can and will help you!"

I love reading this thread. Keeps my conniving food addict alter ego in check.

[Indigo1991 1,612]

Butterthebean, you posed the question of whether people hitting the bottom - or not - is a factor in how they behave post sleeve. That's really interesting as it's something I have pondered while reading this post and others around enabling.

I did this surgery because I was at the bottom. I had no hope and nowhere to go. I couldn't see an end to my weight related issues and ill health. I believed - and still believe - this was my last chance to live a happy, healthy life.

So I have been what my dietician calls a compliant patient. I have stuck to the plan. Occasionally I fall off because I am human. But I stick with it because I am scared of the alternative - going back to my miserable, sick self. So I do wonder if some people have the sleeve too soon, before they have hit rock bottom or run out of options, that's why they are casual about what they do. I also wonder if age is a factor - for some, not all - because they are young and haven't had the 20+ years of misery I had? I don't have the answers.

But I do know that I am grateful for my sleeve, every day I thank it and I try my best to work with it because I am it and it is me. I have nowhere else to go - maybe others haven't got there yet....

Edited November 6, 2013 by Indigo1991

[No game 14,436]

Butterthebean' date=' you posed the question of whether people hitting the bottom - or not - is a factor in how they behave post sleeve. That's really interesting as it's something I have pondered while reading this post and others around enabling. I did this surgery because I was at the bottom. I had no hope and nowhere to go. I couldn't see an end to my weight related issues and ill health. I believed - and still believe - this was my last chance to live a happy, healthy life. So I have been what my dietician calls a compliant patient. I have stuck to the plan. Occasionally I fall off because I am human. But I stick with it because I am scared of the alternative - going back to my miserable, sick self. So I do wonder if some people have the sleeve too soon, before they have hit rock bottom or run out of options, that's why they are casual about what they do. I also wonder if age is a factor - for some, not all - because they are young and haven't had the 20+ years of misery I had? I don't have the answers. But I do know that I am grateful for my sleeve, every day I thank it and I try my best to work with it because I am it and it is me. I have nowhere else to go - maybe others haven't got there yet....[/quote']

I feel a certain seriousness about this too (not that others don't) but it was my last hope. I was dying.

I knew it every time I walked up the stairs in my house! I would be winded and get heart palpitations.. I really felt it was only a matter of time.

If this doesn't work? It's the end of the road with drastic weight loss measures for me.

I have said too that I feel "blessed" to have this opportunity... I do!

I come from a family of addicts and I know for some of them their bottom was death.

I don't want that. And if I look to be a little tightly wound for some? Oh well.

My mom is an alcoholic she was sober for five years and just started drinking again. We argued last week because I told her to stop.

She said "normal people can drink a glass of wine everyday and be ok!"

I told her it doesn't work that way with us.

I'm a food addict, and though I see that "normal" people can eat a cookie a day, I cannot because I'm not normal.

Oh and her normal drinking? It's up to a bottle a day now...

Edited November 6, 2013 by laura-ven

[NMJG 1,266]

I feel a certain seriousness about this too (not that others don't) but it was my last hope. I was dying.

I knew it every time I walked up the stairs in my house! I would be winded and get heart palpitations.. I really felt it was only a matter of time.

If this doesn't work? It's the end of the road with drastic weight loss measures for me.

I have said too that I feel "blessed" to have this opportunity... I do!

I come from a family of addicts and I know for some of them their bottom was death.

I don't want that. And if I look to be a little tightly wound for some? Oh well.

My mom is an alcoholic she was sober for five years and just started drinking again. We argued last week because I told her to stop.

She said "normal people can drink a glass of wine everyday and be ok!"

I told her it doesn't work that way with us.

I'm a food addict, and though I see that "normal" people can eat a cookie a day, I cannot because I'm not normal.

Oh and her normal drinking? It's up to a bottle a day now...

Oh, that's so sad. I feel for you and your mom. {hugs}

[No game 14,436]

Oh' date=' that's so sad. I feel for you and your mom. {hugs}[/quote']

Thank you

I'm sad to say its nothing new... She's been a out of control my whole life. I do wish for her sake she would quit again though. Also I cannot support her when she's drinking, it just becomes to stressful for me. Last week I felt like I was going to binge after she left because I was so stressed out.

[buplee 556]

Breast thread. I was more of a private eater like Laura-Ven. I didn't eat in public a lot other than going out wit my wife or business associates. When I was out on business meetings, I ordered conservatively and never had dessert. My wife owns a bakery and would routinely send sweets not sold to my office. I would give out most of it, but always keep some for myself which I always ate in my office with the door closed.

My wife always blamed herself for my weight gain saying that she should have been more diligent in insisting that I eat better, exercise more. I told her it was not her fault but mine.we had arguments after I gained back huge amounts of weight I lost and blamed herself for enabling me.

On this forum, there is a lot of enabling people to cheat. This is done mostly by the newbies who need justification for their own bad behavior. I don't want to sound "holier than thou", but I can't condone someone intentionally eating something unhealthy after wls. No one should eat garbage at this point just because they can, and try to justify by saying they're not going to deprive themselves or will exercise it away. Yes we can eat what we want in moderation. However, we need to think before we eat. Should I eat that piece of cake because I want it or need it? The answer is I don't need the food I used to eat and I am not going to derail myself this time around. I think I am much older and wiser to give into temptation now that I've been sleeved. I just wish I had this insight 30 years ago. Again great thread and good luck to us all.

[Indigo1991 1,612]

Laura, I am so sorry that on top of dealing with your own addiction, you have your mum burdening you with hers too.

Tightly wound? No, I see someone who's doing the best she can to fight her demons and keep all the plates spinning, while still being prepared to share honestly what she's learned. Will that always make you popular? Nope. Does that matter? Nope. You are still an inspiration to many of us.

I have an out of control mum, who has damaged me to the extent that I cut her out of my life. Harsh to some folk but for me, it came down to survival - mine or hers. I chose me. Time for you to choose you, step away from her for a while because she's not good for you if she stresses you to the point of feeling like you could binge. You can only be responsible for you.

Hang in there, we are all in this together....

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Breast thread.....

Haha....Wrong website dude.