Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

gadgetlady- like i said, if it were so important to you, i'm not the only person who knows this.

No, you're not the only person who THINKS this. I'm looking for evidence, proof, or something to compel me to change my mind. If you can't provide it, that's fine. I haven't found anyone else who can, either. Ergo, I will continue to believe that what you "know" is not verifiable.

I am confused, Hana, as to why you troubled yourself to raise this issue and then refuse to provide any specifics in order to support your claim. This is generally considered to be poor internet manners. Gadget is being entirely reasonable when she requests that you give examples in order to back up your statement.

gadgetlady- since i did not make up the hebrew language or the english language, stating that translations are inacurate could not be something that i "think". if words mean other things, that could change a whole lot.

You are absolutely right, but I can only evaluate what you're saying if I can look at the words themselves. Until and unless you give me examples, I can't do this and have to therefore assume you have no proof.

if it were that important to you,you could find proof easly you dont need me.

if you are looking at my not giving you examples as proof for it not beeing true-then you are blindly relying on the "opinion" of a random person online for this. why choose to rely on that random person for one thing that i am saying rather than the other?

I'm not blindly relying on anyone. That's my whole point. I've studied this myself based on examples other people have given me and have found no discrepancies in the translation that I use. You made a statement and yet you refuse to provide even ONE example. Therefore, because I've never found a credible source including you, I must logically disregard what you say and continue to rely on the research that I've done.

i'm not hiding anything i'm just not sharing info that is easly obtainable elsewhere.

Quite frankly, you've spent so much time on explaining why you won't give any examples that you could have easily spent far less time and given just one teeny tiny example. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I believe you have an agenda, you're lying, you haven't done the research, and you don't know of any discrepancies.

green,

acualy, i did not rais an issue, i was asking a specific poster here a question with a specific intent in mind. now this beeing a public board, obviously we are all welcome here to read and post questions and responses. my intent is not to change anyones mind. if someone wants to know more about what i am saying in that statement, if its important to them, like i'v said there are millions of ways to find out. they really dont need me. i'm not hiding anything i'm just not sharing info that is easly obtainable elsewhere.if it is that important to some-they could research this, and i dont mean read one book, or talk to three people who belive in the same thing. if its not that important to some- fine, i'm not trying to "change minds" at all.

(just a thought though-it probably is important on some level for anyone who would read and follow this post or ask questions about this)

Once again, I must state that I am puzzled by your engagement in this subject. You were the one who chose to resurect this thread, one which has been inactive for months in order to state that no English translation of the Old Covenant/Old Testament/the Tenach exists free of translation errors. Your implication is that the translated document is no longer the, ahem, Divine Word. To tell you the truth, I am inclined to agree with you. I also believe that some of those subtleties which are present in the original document will be lost. This is, as you well know, an issue upon which Muslims are in agreement. This is why all Muslims are required to study/memorise the Qu'ran in its original Arabic. Translations into the local vernacular are considered to be valuable as a spiritual guide to the believer - but only up to a point.

Hana, you are right when you say that this is a public forum. You sure do have the right to speak your mind. To tell you the truth, this is one of my favourite cyber spots. I love having the freedom to engage in discussions/debates with my fellow human beings in an environment which is, you may wish to note, relatively open and easy. My concerns vis-a-vis your statements all hinge upon the fact that you have opted to make a statement and then have followed this by opting out

Hana, do not weaken your position by opting out.

and some inacurate translations could make worlds of differenses in meanings...

What about ACCURATE translations?

there is also a supermarket 1 mile up the road i live in. if i dont tell you the name of the road or the name of the supermarket, than i geuss that means the supermarket is not there and i am lying, or maybe hiding it with my overweight body.

If you, of your own accord, bring up the supermarket and make a wild claim about it, and then refuse to tell me the name of it or give me any details, I must question why you brought it up. If I don't believe it's there or I don't believe your claim about it and you stubbornly refuse to provide me with any details, it leaves me to wonder what your agenda is or whether there really is a supermarket. This isn't rocket science. It's plain logic. And it has nothing to do with weight.

I am reluctant to enter this mudslinging.....but I have to say "Green" has a very good take on this.....and I felt expressed in a diplomatic, intelligent format.

Diane : )

not once have i said why i wont give examples. i never gave you any reasons.

and i'v only stressed for a long time that i wont, beacause people keep asking me for them and i was trying to explain how you can find examples elswhere.

And I told you, I have seen examples elsewhere and none of them has been credible. So if you say you have credible examples, how do I know they're different from the ones I've already seen and have been discredited according to my research?

if you think i am lying, you can find that out. i'm not hiding info just not sharing it. you can also find out that i am telling the truth.

No I can't, because I don't know what you're referring to. The examples I've seen previous to this discussion have all been poor and have not convinced me. I'm now more and more firmly convinced that you aren't sharing your examples because you don't think they're strong enough to hold up to scrutiny.

plus, how would it make a differnce if i were to give you words if you dont speek hebrew. just wondering

That's easy. You say, "Here's the Hebrew word. Here's what it means. Look in [XYZ] translation. See, it was translated wrong." It's that simple. Then I go to my English-Hebrew dictionary, see if the word you're looking at is the word you're saying was translated wrong, see if it matches the translation that I read or if you've chosen a poor translation, and if necessary do some research about the nuances of the word. Again, it's not rocket science.

BTW, I am aware of some errors translating from Hebrew to some English translations. That's why I've chosen the text I read very carefully, and often refer back to the original language (by dual-language dictionary, obviously) if I'm confused. When translating from a foreign language, your understanding of the subject can only be as strong as the original translator's skill.

This reminds me of people who wildly repeat the hearsay that the Bible is full of contradictions, but when asked to give some examples, they say, "Well, there are tons of them; everybody knows that" and yet they don't give any.

I used to be a little afraid of these claims, thinking that I wouldn't have enough knowledge to defend my position. Then one day, many years ago, I took a deep breath and challenged someone to show me a contradiction. They showed me what they believed was one. I showed them how it wasn't (they agreed). It was actually pretty easy. Then they showed me another. I showed them again how it wasn't a contradiction. This went on for a while until they realized that maybe all of those things that "everybody knows" weren't necessarily "gospel" truth (pun intended).

if that "supermarket would be so important to you, you can find out if it is real or not without me. i mean if it is real- it will be there. if its not real, it wont be there.

OK then, I'm making the bold statement that I've looked for the supermarket and not found it and in the absence of other information, it is NOT there.

i only said weight to say how i am not covering the "supermarket" to hide it. i'm sorry if that has offended you.

It's pretty hard to offend me. I just didn't think weight was part of the discussion and I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't challenging you because you were overweight.

not sure what you mean by "poor". i am talking about words that dont mean what it says in english that they mean.

OK, let's look at the facts. There are many different translations. They are not all exactly alike. Therefore, obviously some of them have not captured the correct translation or nuance to match the original language or culture. Some of the translations have translated some things improperly. I have already acknowledged that. These are what I call "poor" translations. They are poor translations because they have poorly translated words or phrases. Not all translations are poor translations, and therefore your statement that some words and phrases don't match is translation-specific. If you're using a poor translation, naturally you would find discrepancies. My challenge to you would be to see if there are other translations that don't have those same issues.

i was just saying what i have seen- wrongly translated words.

As have I. The issue is do you throw out the whole discipline of translation because you found an example (or several examples) of a word (or words) translated improperly, or do you research more and find out if it was translated properly elsewhere? Do you claim that there are errors in the translation you've witnessed errors in, or do you extrapolate and claim that the errors are throughout all English translations? Because that's what most people do -- they find one error, stop there, say the English Bible is inaccurate, and never look back -- never bothering to find out if that error was corrected in other translations.