Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

Me? I want argue?.. Pot, Hello Pot! This is Kettle.

I thought we were have a discussion?

I suppose you will stop posting then?

NO, I'm not going to stop posting. I want to stop ARGUING! If you are not interested in hearing what I am saying and if you are already convinced that I am wrong before a say it, what is the purpose of beating a dead horse! If you are serious about wanting an answer to that question, I will answer it truthfully and honestly by private eMail. I don't want to start another war here.

Me? I want argue?.. Pot, Hello Pot! This is Kettle.

I thought we were have a discussion?

I suppose you will stop posting then?

You are one side of the horse, I am on the other.

I wanted to know why you are so insistant that as a Catholic,(being not perfect one set aside) I am going to hell.

Why you are so insistant that only your version and interpretation of the bible is right.

And, futhermore, it seems that others are also interested as well.

I do not PM. I like input from others as well.

First of all, I never said you were going to Hell, you said it! Why do I believe my understanding of the Bible is correct, is because I believe the means exactly what it says it means. And the reason I am reluctant to discuss a specific religion in a forum like this is because the majority here are not Catholics, in fact most do not believe in God, and it can serve no good. Again, I will answer you if you are sincere, but I will not discuss a specific religion or their dogma in such a forum. No good can come from it.

You are one side of the horse, I am on the other.

I wanted to know why you are so insistant that as a Catholic,(being not perfect one set aside) I am going to hell.

Why you are so insistant that only your version and interpretation of the bible is right.

And, futhermore, it seems that others are also interested as well.

I do not PM. I like input from others as well.

PS - I am off to a Lap Band Support Group Meeting!

It seems someone may just be in a little over his head this time.

By the way, if you're fairly new to this thread, most of the people here are not atheists as someone just stated. Many of us are believers, but we do not believe that ridicule and condesension are tools that any credible intelligent minister uses to make a point. Plus there's also the fact that many of us here are Catholics as well. Stick to your guns.

You see a big difference between a circle and a sphere??

Yeah, huge. A circle is 2 dimensional, like a photograph. A sphere is 3 dimensional, like a person. I think the difference between something that has 2 dimensions and something that has 3 is enormous. But you evaded the question. Do you believe the earth is a circle, as stated in the bible?

Since the book is devinely inspired, I would assume God provided the information! Why is there no geological signs of a worldwide flood"?? There is plenty of it out there! You just haven't looked. Where did all the water go? Whereever it came from in the first place. I assume the atmosphere!

Yes, I have looked. But it's interesting how you're somehow qualified to tell me what I have done or not done. How exactly is that?

If I hadn't looked, I would not have been able to confirm references to local floods. Please, point me to some evidence. I've been unsuccessful in my searches. (And BTW, any climatologist or most 7th graders could tell you that if a worldwide ocean just somehow inexplicably "went back to the atmosphere", it would come right back down as rain, and be another worldwide ocean).

Chewing the cud envolves bringing back up what had been swallowed, and chewing it again. As someone who has owned a farm and raised rabbits, I can tell you first hand that is true. Eh, have YOU raised any rabbits??

No sir, cud is specifically material brought up from the rumen. And the bible is literal, so either rabbits have rumen and can produce cud, or it is not literal and cud could mean anything brought back up from the digestive track. It can't be both ways if only one meaning is literally right. So which do you believe it is? Do you believe rabits have rumen, or do you believe there is room for interpretation about what "cud" means?

(And yes, I have raised rabbits. Holland Lops to be specific. And not a single one of them had rumen or produced cud.)

We know that horses and armidillos can get leprocy, so if the Bible said it occured in horses thousands of years ago, I can accept that. It was the act of obedience in performing the cleansing ritural that effected the cure, rather the the cure being in the blood. The Mosiac Law was full of these types of rituals.

I didn't say "horse".

Give he the chapter and verse so I can check the meaning of the word you say is translated "dirt"!

If you mean give you, it is Judges 3:22. But why would you have to go see? If the bible is literal, and it says dirt, then surely it's dirt, no? Oh, is that where context comes into play? Context that effects interpretation?

If you actually KNEW the scriptures instead of pull verses out of context to try to prove me wrong, you would have known that!

I didn't pull verses out of context, I quoted them. I took them from a book and typed them on my screen. And if the words are meant literally, they should survive the transplant. And if the word is literal, why does context matter?

I'm not trying to "prove you wrong", that has already been done. Again, you make assumptions about my actions. I'm trying to understand from whence your perspective comes. You are the first person I've encountered who is so adamanat that they are correct, and held viewpoints so divergent from most of the christians I know. If I have a better understanding of what your beliefs are, and what literality you believe to be true or not true, then I am better able to engage in the conversation, versus making assumptions, as you are doing. Ron Cusano - let me ask... why is this an "us vs. them" situation for you? Why do you assume anyone is trying to prove you wrong? Is someone who asks you whether or not you believe what's written in the bible somehow an inherent enemy to you?

forum like this is because the majority here are not Catholics, in fact most do not believe in God

Most in the Rants and Raves forum do believe in god. I've seen a handful of atheists have presence here. Count is now probably up 5 or 6 "known" atheists. For that to be most in this forum, it would mean that there are no more than 5 others who post to RnR. And that's simply not accurate.

Here is just one of hundreds of website listing proofs of the worldwide flood. Believe it or not . . . http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4168.asp

Yeah, huge. A circle is 2 dimensional, like a photograph. A sphere is 3 dimensional, like a person. I think the difference between something that has 2 dimensions and something that has 3 is enormous. But you evaded the question. Do you believe the earth is a circle, as stated in the bible?

Yes, I have looked. But it's interesting how you're somehow qualified to tell me what I have done or not done. How exactly is that? So let's play by you rules. Since the people of that time had no way visually see or conceive of a 3 demensional view of the world, their best description would be to describe it as a circle.

If I hadn't looked, I would not have been able to confirm references to local floods. Please, point me to some evidence. I've been unsuccessful in my searches. (And BTW, any climatologist or most 7th graders could tell you that if a worldwide ocean just somehow inexplicably "went back to the atmosphere", it would come right back down as rain, and be another worldwide ocean).

No sir, cud is specifically material brought up from the rumen. And the bible is literal, so either rabbits have rumen and can produce cud, or it is not literal and cud could mean anything brought back up from the digestive track. It can't be both ways if only one meaning is literally right. So which do you believe it is? Do you believe rabits have rumen, or do you believe there is room for interpretation about what "cud" means? Yeah, if you are talking about cows. Rabbits perfrom the same function from the stomach.

(And yes, I have raised rabbits. Holland Lops to be specific. And not a single one of them had rumen or produced cud.)

I didn't say "horse".

If you mean give you, it is Judges 3:22. But why would you have to go see? If the bible is literal, and it says dirt, then surely it's dirt, no? Oh, is that where context comes into play? Context that effects interpretation?

I didn't pull verses out of context, I quoted them. I took them from a book and typed them on my screen. And if the words are meant literally, they should survive the transplant. And if the word is literal, why does context matter? Context means everything!

I'm not trying to "prove you wrong", that has already been done. Again, you make assumptions about my actions. I'm trying to understand from whence your perspective comes. You are the first person I've encountered who is so adamanat that they are correct, and held viewpoints so divergent from most of the christians I know. If I have a better understanding of what your beliefs are, and what literality you believe to be true or not true, then I am better able to engage in the conversation, versus making assumptions, as you are doing. Ron Cusano - let me ask... why is this an "us vs. them" situation for you? Why do you assume anyone is trying to prove you wrong? Is someone who asks you whether or not you believe what's written in the bible somehow an inherent enemy to you?

I did not make it an us vs them engagement. I made comments and gave information based upon by beliefs and my knowledge that came fro many years of intense study and learning. I don't expect everyome to agree with me, by I am convinced that my understanding is correct. If the Christians that you are refering to have major doctronial differences with me, than I would assume they are from liberal demoninations. I have never said that I am infallible; I am not. But if you want to say I am wrong, give me real information to that end. Don't pick and choose nonesennce to try to find fault.. That is not real discussion, that just argument. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, don't ask.

PS - The Hebrew word used from which was interpreted "dirt" is "Parshdon" wich literally means "the crotch or anus". The dirt being spoken of is "excretement" which also fit with the proper context of the act being described.

Here is just one of hundreds of website listing proofs of the worldwide flood. Believe it or not . . . http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4168.asp

I did not make it an us vs them engagement. I made comments and gave information based upon by beliefs and my knowledge that came fro many years of intense study and learning. I don't expect everyome to agree with me, by I am convinced that my understanding is correct. If the Christians that you are refering to have major doctronial differences with me, than I would assume they are from liberal demoninations. I have never said that I am infallible; I am not. But if you want to say I am wrong, give me real information to that end. Don't pick and choose nonesennce to try to find fault.. That is not real discussion, that just argument. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, don't ask.

If you are talking about me, what exactly do you think I am in over my head about?? I am not using redicule or condesension, I am discussing and arguing my understanding of scripture. I feel it is inapproiate to discuss what I consider to be wrong doctine of any specific religion in a public forum. Do you have a problem with that? I am trying to be sensitive to those who happen to be Catholics. I will make you the same offer to discuss it with you privately.

It seems someone may just be in a little over his head this time.

By the way, if you're fairly new to this thread, most of the people here are not atheists as someone just stated. Many of us are believers, but we do not believe that ridicule and condesension are tools that any credible intelligent minister uses to make a point. Plus there's also the fact that many of us here are Catholics as well. Stick to your guns.

Ron, that page that you linked doesn't list proof of a world-wide flood.

I don't know what you mean. Here is another site with more evidence. http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn047/worldwideflood.htm

and another

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/EarthSciences13.html

and another

http://www.earthage.addr.com/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide%20flood.htm

There are also hundreds of books on the subject!

I was told there is not proof of the flood, but that is proof. Weather you believe it or not is not the issue.

Ron, that page that you linked doesn't list proof of a world-wide flood.

Ron, go here. This is a list of creationists' claims and the rebuttals to them. I noted several instances of your so-called "evidence" being rebutted. The flood section is CH400-CH599. This is a nice page, too, that summarizes much of the problems noted with a world-wide flood.

Don't pick and choose nonesennce to try to find fault.

I'm sorry, what does that mean? I'm not sure if you tried to type "nonsense" or "non essence" or something different, and don't want to make assumptions.

So you still haven't answered my question. You take the bible literally. The bible says the world is a circle. Do you believe the world is a circle? I didn't ask "Why do the people call it a circle?", as you answered. I asked what you believe. Is the world a sphere, or is the bible to be taken literally?

And you also haven't answered what it is, exactly, that qualifies you to say, "You just haven't looked." How could you possibly know?

I was told there is not proof of the flood

Now - hang on. You're the first one to say, "That's not what I said !! Show me where I said that !!" So be careful what you indicate others have said. My words were, "I've been unsuccessful in my searches." BIG difference.

Yeah, if you are talking about cows. Rabbits perfrom the same function from the stomach.

No, I'm not talking about cows. I don't think you got my point. I was talking about CUD, which comes from rumen. And it ONLY comes from rumen. Saliva doesn't come from the eye or the ear or the toes, it ONLY comes from the mouth. If you say "saliva", you're talking about something from the mouth. And if you say "tears", you're talking about something from the eyes. And if you say "cud", you're talking about something from the rumen, not from the stomach. So I'll ask again, because this was yet another question you evaded. If you believe the bible is literal, then you believe that rabbits have rumen. And if you don't believe that rabbits have rumen, then you believe the bible is not literal. Which do you believe?

I did not make it an us vs them engagement. I made comments and gave information based upon by beliefs and my knowledge that came fro many years of intense study and learning.

I'm confused. It took you many years of intense study and learning to form the belief that I'm trying to prove you wrong??

Context means everything!

Yes, I agree. And context makes meaning subjective. It can completely change the meaning. How can something be literal when it depends on context?

Your analogy of law doesn't equate. Laws were written literally, but they cannot be literal in today's world was the gist of what you said, if I remember correctly. So by your analogy the bible was literal once upon a time, but it cannot be literal in today's world. Would that be the parallel?