Anti-Semitism In France!

[BJean 16]

Oh really? :eek:

[Ron Cusano 0]

As I am sure that you know, there are many different Bibles out there; some good some less than good. There are the paraphrased bibles that I shy away from because they are the writers explanation of what is being said, rather that a word by word translation.

The most accurate word by word translation out there in plain English is the New American Standard Version (NASB). I has Jewish friends that are very fluent reading and writing Hebrew, and they attest to this wholeheartedly. The New King James is also a good translation in plain English.

I consider both the Old Testament ( the Tenach) and the New Testament (The Brit Hadassah ) to be the Bible; The inspired Word of God. Both written by Jews, for Jews and about the Jewish Messiah.

The Old Testament covers the dispensation of The Law, while the New Testament covers the dispensation of Grace, which was foretold by the Hebrew prophet Jeremiah (Read Jeremiah 31: 31 - 37) which spotlights the atoning work of the Messiah (Read Isaiah 53: 1-12) I hope this answered your question. Blessings,

Ron

ron i was wondering what version of the so called bible you considered to be the truth.beeing that there are so many translations i havent found one in english that is translated 100% correctly to the original only one in hebrew.

and when i say bible i am only refering to what you would consider the old testament.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I completely agree that Tenach is the original Old Testament which was written in Hebrew. Since not everyone speaks Hebrew, scholars translated it into many different languages.

As to it's accuracy, since I don't read or write Hebrew, I would be at a disadvantage argueing the point with you, but I would be happy to put you in touch with someone who could intelligently discuss it with you.

He came from an othodox background, studied under orthodox Rabbi's, speaks and writes Hebrew fluently, and has come to the conclusion, as have many, many open minded Jews, that Yeshua, Jesus, is the Messiah spoken of by the hebrew prophets. If you would like to send me your e-mail address, I will ask him to write to so so you can discuss it. Please let me know.

acualy there are not many bibles, only one original hebrew one (Tenach, one version) the many that you are refering to is many different so called translations, and including the ones you have listed, they are not acurate. Hebrew is my native language i speak hebrew and english fluently, so i know this not from any third party, but from what i read.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Actually, the Bible has been translated into most of the world's languages and is read and studied by people for all countries.

I don't know exactly what you read or experienced, but I do know what many of my Jewish friend experienced at the hand of Gentiles who hate Jews for no other reason that them being Jews. I hope you know that all Gentiles are not like that.

I am not trying to put you on the spot by asking if you want to communicate with the person I mentioned. I just think that sometimes what we read, we try to understand based upon what we have been taught, rather that based upon an openminded understanding of what is actually said and in what context.

This person I referred to argued against Jesus being Messiah for a very long time, using all he had been taught and read. It was against everything he believed in to accept this understanding. But, when he searched Tenach honestly and with an open mind, he had no choice but to accept the truth. It was a very difficult reality for him.

He is a very loving and gentle person with a deep love for his Jewish people. He would welcome communication with you. Please consider it.

not into many languages only. into different english trasnlations".

I grew up in Jerusalem. i know people who belive in what you are saying.

I just know what i clearly read and experienced.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I do agree with you that there are some so-called translations that are not accurate at all. In face, some cults have rewritten the scriptures to say what they want them to say. That being said, there are certainly a number of very good and accurate translations, word for word from the hebrew root. As I mentioned earlier, the NASB is about the best. Check it out! If you can find any discrepencies, I would welcome you sharing them with me. Blessings,

Ron

right,also into many languages, but also into many english translations, that are not acurate, and that is based on deffention of hebrew to english word translations, not just personal undestandings.

hatered was not what i meant by read and experienced.

i live in the u.s right now, i know personally lots of people from messianic communities already.

[lotsofkids 0]

I'm really reluctant to enter such a topic of discussion, however after reading the first dozen pages (I will read the rest over the coming days)......I was sucked in (maybe to be a big mistake on my part) but I do feel the whole premise is promoting racism.

Ron, did you not start your opening point with the "5-6 million Muslims" in France and also sprinkled with tidbits of Sept 11??? What's with that? Are you not consciously and unconsciously showing Muslims as a negative?

I am an American listed on the decedents of the Mayflower...as Colonial roots as they come, however I have also been fortunate to live overseas and travel abroad for two decades throughout many countries and continents. I agree there is much less tolerance for Jewish people in France....in fact I would say, Europe still has many layers of discrimination within it, but similarly the Muslims are disrespected too, have the lowest paying jobs...a lot of taxi drivers and hotel porters. There is a large majority of Algerian and Tunisian ie: North African Muslims living in France. Most are quite poor and struggling to survive to feed and support their families.

In fact most non-pure "classic" French seem to hit the invisible glass ceiling. But I felt the biggest blatant racism in France is that against the Muslim population. It is also rampant in Germany. Part of it is in the numbers....they are taking all the menial jobs and there is some backlash on the unemployed "purists". Sort of like the stereotyping of the poor Mexican workers in our country. Man....I was always taught to respect a hard, honest worker....not to look down on him!!!

This week....my 6th grade daughter came home with a paper from her technology class. The assignment was to commemorate the Sept 11 anniversary and to do research online. She also had a paper to fill out in which the very first question asked: A terrorist is a

a) Muslim

:waytogo: suicide bomber

c) person who tries to scare people by killing and destroying

My daughter said the student beside her answered "a". This assignment would not bother me "if" the teacher used this to open a discussion to debunk stereotyping....but alas....there was no single word mentioned and the residue of this assignment is now in the subconscious minds with a clear association of Muslims = terrorists. Could "a" have been replaced with Irish Catholic IRA, Spanish separatists ETA or perhaps even over zealous Orthodox Settlers in the West Bank.....I think not. But sure it is open season to hate the Muslims. America has to hate someone. In the 40's it was the German's & Japanese. In the 50's and 60's the Russians (I heard Russians don't smile) In the late 70's it became the Iranians...after the hostage crisis....hmmm I do believe we are still supposed to hate them. Then in the 80's our Beirut failure....we clearly needed to focus on the Mid-East. And well....now we have settled on hating the WHOLE darn Islamic world. Heck....it is only 1.61 billion people as of 2007 (about one fifth of the entire world!) Muslims are the majority in over 51 countries, speak 60 different languages and have very diverse ethnic backgrounds. But certainly...."you would be smart not to trust any of them".

The point I am trying to make here is this....no one should be targeted for racism in any fashion. Does it exist? It sure does...but as individuals we have the choice NOT to fall into that ugly Water. We as overweight people have seen discrimination based on size. It is wrong and unfair to be judged by stereotypes in any arena. I have taught my children not to judge anyone EXCEPT by their manners, integrity and character. I have NO TOLERANCE for any racism of religion, color, gender identification, economic background, ethnicity.....Nada....I will continue to judge all persons individually and with the respect and dignity that I would want to be treated with.....and that's all I have to say about that. I have stepped off my soapbox.

Diane :faint:

[Lizgroover 2]

This is very disturbing! I will never go to france if this is true.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I respectfully have to disagree with you, as would many other Hebrew scholars withing the messianiac community. You are making a pretty broad statement with no examples to show what you mean. I have the feeling that you are saying what you have been taught without actually seeing for yourself. The truth is, many of the translations are perfectly accurate and have been painstakenly gone over by world reknown experts in Hebrew. That is just plain fact. Can you site at least one example?

but thats what i was saying. they are not acurate! not those ones either. Languagewise, therefor-meaningwise.i know.

but i also send a small post saying dont ask me for examples

[green 6]

lotsakids, I think your post is an excellent one. I lived in France for a 3 years and my experience of that country is the same as yours.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I have no problem with Muslims aside from my spiritual differences with their belief system. They have a right to their beliefs weather i think they are right or wrong.

My problem is with MILITANT Muslim extreamists that teach conversion to Islam or death to the infidel. Since I am considered one of those infidels, i have a serious problem with it. If you consider this racism, them I guess I am guilty in your eyes. But I don't consider this racism at all.

I'm really reluctant to enter such a topic of discussion, however after reading the first dozen pages (I will read the rest over the coming days)......I was sucked in (maybe to be a big mistake on my part) but I do feel the whole premise is promoting racism.

Ron, did you not start your opening point with the "5-6 million Muslims" in France and also sprinkled with tidbits of Sept 11??? What's with that? Are you not consciously and unconsciously showing Muslims as a negative?

I am an American listed on the decedents of the Mayflower...as Colonial roots as they come, however I have also been fortunate to live overseas and travel abroad for two decades throughout many countries and continents. I agree there is much less tolerance for Jewish people in France....in fact I would say, Europe still has many layers of discrimination within it, but similarly the Muslims are disrespected too, have the lowest paying jobs...a lot of taxi drivers and hotel porters. There is a large majority of Algerian and Tunisian ie: North African Muslims living in France. Most are quite poor and struggling to survive to feed and support their families.

In fact most non-pure "classic" French seem to hit the invisible glass ceiling. But I felt the biggest blatant racism in France is that against the Muslim population. It is also rampant in Germany. Part of it is in the numbers....they are taking all the menial jobs and there is some backlash on the unemployed "purists". Sort of like the stereotyping of the poor Mexican workers in our country. Man....I was always taught to respect a hard, honest worker....not to look down on him!!!

This week....my 6th grade daughter came home with a paper from her technology class. The assignment was to commemorate the Sept 11 anniversary and to do research online. She also had a paper to fill out in which the very first question asked: A terrorist is a

a) Muslim

:waytogo: suicide bomber

c) person who tries to scare people by killing and destroying

My daughter said the student beside her answered "a". This assignment would not bother me "if" the teacher used this to open a discussion to debunk stereotyping....but alas....there was no single word mentioned and the residue of this assignment is now in the subconscious minds with a clear association of Muslims = terrorists. Could "a" have been replaced with Irish Catholic IRA, Spanish separatists ETA or perhaps even over zealous Orthodox Settlers in the West Bank.....I think not. But sure it is open season to hate the Muslims. America has to hate someone. In the 40's it was the German's & Japanese. In the 50's and 60's the Russians (I heard Russians don't smile) In the late 70's it became the Iranians...after the hostage crisis....hmmm I do believe we are still supposed to hate them. Then in the 80's our Beirut failure....we clearly needed to focus on the Mid-East. And well....now we have settled on hating the WHOLE darn Islamic world. Heck....it is only 1.61 billion people as of 2007 (about one fifth of the entire world!) Muslims are the majority in over 51 countries, speak 60 different languages and have very diverse ethnic backgrounds. But certainly...."you would be smart not to trust any of them".

The point I am trying to make here is this....no one should be targeted for racism in any fashion. Does it exist? It sure does...but as individuals we have the choice NOT to fall into that ugly Water. We as overweight people have seen discrimination based on size. It is wrong and unfair to be judged by stereotypes in any arena. I have taught my children not to judge anyone EXCEPT by their manners, integrity and character. I have NO TOLERANCE for any racism of religion, color, gender identification, economic background, ethnicity.....Nada....I will continue to judge all persons individually and with the respect and dignity that I would want to be treated with.....and that's all I have to say about that. I have stepped off my soapbox.

Diane :faint:

[lotsofkids 0]

Thanks Green,

I honestly feel if more Americans lived abroad (in any Country, Industrial or shoeless ones) for at least a 3 month stint......they would have a different perspective entirely. It should be a college requirement...lol

Diane

[lotsofkids 0]

Ron,

Certainly, no sane person agrees with the militant idiology....most Muslims will say they are harming their religion. As I also lived in an Islamic Country for a time.....I can tell you, most non-muslims are truly in the dark as to "what" are the muslim fundamentals. In the quran itself...which is sacred and considered God's word....it says: La iqraha fee deen....meaning there is no complusion in religion! Religion is a matter of the heart....it cannot be instilled by any sword. Muslims throughout its very begining have had non-muslims living within the community. They were protected and given all the rights like any other citizen. However, they were told not to engage in alcohol publicly (within the confines of their home was their sanctuary) They had to pay the taxes and would be subject to the laws like everyone else. Jewish scholars have all agreed that they lived "unpersecuted" under the Islamic caliphahs.....while their counterparts in Europe were suffering tremenous indignities.

The religion does not preach aggression, only a defensive position if threatened. Now....certainly one can argue this point in today's current atmosphere. I am not an idiot....just trying to make sense of things like everyone else, but not wanting to buy into the daily propaganda being feed to us on "Fox" news! On that note....I listen and go online daily to BBC (British Broadcasting) and CNN International. I suggest others try doing that....it will expand your horizons.

Militant or Radical groups from any genre are always dangerous and should not have a place in civil society. Religiously, there are radical Islamists, Christians, Jewish, Seiks and I'm sure others but they never represent their religion correctly....only a narrow, warped version that seems to give them the permission to forgo rationalism. (let alone all the nationalists, separatists and ethnic extremists) However, it is always wise to see what was the environment to seed such thoughts...and is there anything that could be done to relieve or calm down the pressure so that these people will not continue to find recruits into the madness!

There is a lot of ugly injustice in the world.......that translates into some angry, misguided and very dangerous situations.

Just my little 2 cents.....Diane

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't speak Hebrew and therefore will likely never be privvy to the original text, so I have to depend on translations if I want to read the Bible. I don't have a choice; the only choice I have is which translation to rely upon (and if one studies the different options, there are just a few that rise to the top for accuracy), I've studied several different translations and often use supplemental sources to go back to the original untranslated words if I'm confused.

If you can't cite any examples of grossly mistranslated text, how can anyone look at what you're claiming and agree? How should one study the Bible if one does not speak Hebrew or Greek? Or are you saying it's only a text for people who speak those languages?

[gadgetlady 4]

not cant. wont. it is in there.i can see why anyone would think i'm making this up.

Um, because you won't give examples? That's really how one determines what is true and what is false: by comparing claims using factual information, not the opinions and unverified statements of a random person on a public board.

[gadgetlady 4]

I've seen some of the books that give examples and to me they're not credible or accurate based on the translations that I read. I was wondering if you had something specific that I could actually research and see if there was anything more to the claim. In the absence of that information, I will continue along the same path. I have an open mind and am willing to consider other points of view, but not when they're not backed up.