The 5:2 diet

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Interesting' date=' did not realize that! Great job on the -1.5 lbs. [/quote']

Fiddle....in nonsleevers, 5:2 can work in a number of ways. You can eat at TDEE on the 5 days and use the 2 fasting days to create a weekly caloric deficit for weight loss. You can also eat above TDEE 1 or 2 of those days to create a caloric balance for maintenance. Often people will lose on 5:2 then go to 6:1 for maintenance. There are a myriad of proven health benefits to fasting that have nothing to do with weight loss, particularly at the cellular level.

As for our bodies being "designed to eat at TDEE"....think about our ancestors. They may have eaten their TDEE, but not everyday. It was feast and famine. But it balances out over time. There is no magic in consuming a certain amount of calories in a 24 hour period, it's a matter of calories in vs calories out over then long haul. That's why you see so many posts on this forum by people who say they ate 600 calories in one day and gained 2 pounds. It isn't just about the one day....it's about the weeks, months and years. And the studies have proven that humans can fast for up to 72 hours straight with no ill effects on metabolism, so a 24 hour fast isn't going to slow it down either.

I personally haven't tried the 5:2 yet but I have done the leangains method of fasting 16 hours a day and having an 8 hour feeding window. It's a very popular method bodybuilders use to get ripped before a show without losing their lean muscle mass. Hugh Jackman used it for the Wolverine movie. The fasting actually increases growth hormone production, so you time your workouts at the end of the fast to get the most muscle growth from the hormones, then start your 8 hour feed right after.

Not something I think any newly sleeved individual should try, but once you're far enough out that you can eat and your body is no longer catabolic, I think it's something to consider.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

I'm reading on this throughput the day today and very much considering it. I'm so tired of losing nothing or less than a lb a week. I didn't get surgery for that' date=' so I don't have any problem with dieting on my diet. If something is broken I try to fix it.

So. What foods do I need to go out and buy for super low cal days?[/quote']

Don't do this Amy. This is something for people who are much farther out than you. Give your sleeve a chance.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Don't jip me fiddle it was 3.5 pounds this week!

Even more if you count the bounce up I had been having !

Sorry Laura! My typical man brain was only paying attention to the post right in front of me rather then the history of the entire thread. congratulations on your super duper fantastical mega loss of XX ( fill in the blank) for this week. It goes to show 5:2 is actually pretty good for you and I appreciate BTBs description above.

Me - I prefer to eat the way as I am eating. 200-300 below TDEE (about 2000 calories, exact is 2054), never hungry, eating every 1-2 hours small, balanced paleo meals, losing body fat (eg leaning out while building lean muscle). You see I am on a popular plan also called paleo eating and fitness. I am Really good at the nutrition (eat like a caveman) and am in process of ramping up fitness . scale has gone down about 10 lb from a month ago, and have never felt better after following my "transformation" program over in vets forum. 2 months to go. Anyways, just a little program a few of us are on for 12 weeks.

Back to 5:2 diet.

I talked to my wife about this diet, as I have never heard of it before the thread. She surprised me in saying that people have been mega successful on this way of eating and it works for a lot of people. I have been successful on popular diets before being sleeved. Lets see: WW - 95 lb, Atkins - 100 lb. in both cases they were in the last 10 years and I also gained everything back plus more afterwards.

Weight regain was due to losing steam at 6 months because no lifestyle changes occurred for me during first 6 months to go from weight loss to weight maintain. There were no long term strategies i could live with or the suggested long term plan just did not click for me. However, if there is truly a long term strategy to eat well as BTB suggests (6:1), then you have found a really good forever plan. With WW and Atkins, I was very successful, but did long find either sustainable and "failed" at both.

I am curious how long one stays on this 5:2 plan and what happens long term once you go "off" the plan. Is fasting consistently every week good and healthy for you long term? I think so if you agree with BTB description of calorie in and out of weeks and months (I agree). Based on the popularity of this plan and empirical evidence to back up long term success of 5:2, this is good news for a lot of you. Keep posting your successes here! Cheers.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

"Vertical Sleeve Talk" is like bad reality tv' date=' filled with cat fights and so addicting you can't stop even though you know you should. This is my first experience posting on on line forums and I had no idea how much you can blast other people when you are not face to face. Also, this forum can be dangerous because the advice here is not necessarily medically supported and you can also get caught comparing your weight loss with others. So many posts are about "omg, why am i not losing?" Being a newbie, I am disappointed with this experience. I hope it's just me, and you can be irritated with me all you want because I tried to share my *young* and *naive* experience- omg, how dare she?! I hope other newbies aren't treated with such passive aggressive rage and name calling. Peace out, I'm going to face to face support groups from now on.[/quote']

Oh you mean Jerry springer show on a typical day? We do not have a lot of transvestites nor do we have grandmothers dating their grandsons so far (although, I could be wrong!!). Although there has been a whole lot of virtual chair slinging and many mud bath wrestling matches among the women hereon VST. Lol.

[Globetrotter 1,340]

Fiddle, I think that might be the point of 5:2, you don't go "off" the plan, it's just your life now. In my empty hunger addled state as I lay tossing and turning last night, I had a revelation: there is nothing at all wrong with diets (reasonable non-dangerous ones), nothing wrong with them at all. Instead, it is our approach to diets, treating them as though they are something to endure before we get to have fun/be bad/be indulgent again. We treat it like having to clean your room before being allowed to go play as a kid, or having to eat your broccoli before you were allowed to have dessert. We treat diets like they are a punishment and that the reward is to be glutttonous. I'm overstating of course, but I think you will probably get my point. So, successful dieters know exactly how to lose the weight, and when they get bored, and because they haven't accepted in their hearts that this is a lifestyle change, they just go back to "having fun".

Another box? Wheeee!! I'm curious though, what did you think you had to remove from the boxes? We use APO AE mailing here which is the US Mail. Unless you were sending me Playboys I can't think of anything you couldn't have sent

[Globetrotter 1,340]

Butter the Bean - where can I read more about this fascinating information on fasting and inducing hormones for muscle building?

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Globe trotter- nothing too scandalous was in the original package that had to be removed before package could be shipped. Essentially, some fitness mags with women showing midriff. We double checked Jerky meat products did not contain any pork. Hope you like the ostrich sticks as it is one of my favorite Snacks. Lean, tasty and high Protein. My wife was going to include a certain vibrating "back rubber" (wink,wink) but I talked her out of it given potential issues we might have with shipping it. The post officer seemed to be on the up and up with packages sent to Afghanistan so knew what had to be removed by memory (impressed!!) Thanks again for serving our country with your work.

[amytug 996]

Don't do this Amy. This is something for people who are much farther out than you. Give your sleeve a chance.

Even though I typically get 1200 calories a day and have lost one pound in two weeks?

[Globetrotter 1,340]

LOLOLOL, you really didn't have to be that cautious but it's very sweet that you were! We look forward to pulled pork/BBQ night at our difac every week!

[AmandaRaeLeo 2,145]

Even though I typically get 1200 calories a day and have lost one pound in two weeks?

I agree with BTB. Give yourself more time. :-)

[LipstickLady 25,682]

.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Even though I typically get 1200 calories a day and have lost one pound in two weeks?

Yes, unfortunately. When your body gets used to the whole VSG way of eating, some months are 2-3 lb losses, maybe even zero loss. However, I bet your clothes are fitting better and you can see or feel more bone and muscle definition then the last month. Plus you have more energy and mood is improved. This slower loss starts around 4-5 months. You may be right that 5:2 is what your body needs to get a little uncomfortable with its caloric needs. I like that the fasting is surrounded by TDEE eating as it will keep your BMR off life support and that means more efficiency in burning calories. A lot of folks find out the hard way that fasting all the time (read: 600-900 calories a day) kills the BMR around 6-9 months without increasing calories up to TDEE. Once a TDEE lowers enough, your body requires very few calories before it starts storing it as fat for later. That is what is beautifully designed about 5:2 - your body will consistently need around normal TDEE calorie, but fasting days really prime the BMR for better throughput consistently. You just need to get used to the feeling of raging hunger on those fasting days.

[feedyoureye 3,087]

Oh you mean Jerry springer show on a typical day? We do not have a lot of transvestites nor do we have grandmothers dating their grandsons so far (although, I could be wrong!!). Although there has been a whole lot of virtual chair slinging and many mud bath wrestling matches among the women hereon VST. Lol.

Now Now Fiddle, please don't confuse a couple of posts with "the women" here... Most of us are pretty well behaved in public!

Even though I typically get 1200 calories a day and have lost one pound in two weeks?

Trust it, if you are doing everything else right, Water, Protein first, and exercise... then take the slow with the fast. I have had MANY one pound months. After a year or 18 months, you can re-evaluate. I think sometimes the body just wants a rest. Oh, and make sure you are measuring, sometimes the size changes when the scale doesn't... My 2 cents.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Butter the Bean - where can I read more about this fascinating information on fasting and inducing hormones for muscle building?

Martin Berkhan is pretty much the expert on the 16:8 method. Here's a link to his guide and it's excellent reading...

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

The specific article about resistance training while fasted and increased growth hormone is here...

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html

Also, if you have Kindle I have the book "Eat, Stop, Eat" which is great reading about the 5:2 method. Lots of scientific data in this book, not much bro-science. PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Now Now Fiddle' date=' please don't confuse a couple of posts with "the women" here... Most of us are pretty well behaved in public!

Trust it, if you are doing everything else right, Water, Protein first, and exercise... then take the slow with the fast. I have had MANY one pound months. After a year or 18 months, you can re-evaluate. I think sometimes the body just wants a rest. Oh, and make sure you are measuring, sometimes the size changes when the scale doesn't... My 2 cents.[/quote']

Yes, you are absolutely correct. My comment was more general across a wide swath of posts day after day, not about those that are on this thread or most threads in general. The obnoxious ones do tend to stand out in my mind. I will be more careful about generalizing like that in the future for it has a candidate for wrong interpretation. Sigh, the nature of communication over the Internet.