My beloved daughter, who lives with me, is proud of her mother's and my weight loss. Her mother had Roux N Y and is 2 pounds from goal and so am I. My daughter has had weight struggles for years. I told her the operations were just tools, the reduction in eating is what took the weight off. If she just eats the same thing her mother and I eat she would get the same results. She sees that as a road to insanity.

The elephant in the room is named hunger. It resides in the brain emotionally and in the stomach physically. I am a stubborn and strong-willed man. I could not conquer it before the sleeve. I can think of no other system that constantly monitors your intake like the restrictive sleeve. What a welcome, life-saving nag!

Can anyone think of a method or combination of methods that could come near to the powerful ally we have in the sleeve without an operation?

I was able to do an extremely low-carb diet successfully about 10 years ago and lost a good deal of weight, but I couldn't sustain it and gained it all back, plus lots more. The other problem that I'm looking forward to alleviating with my sleeve is that it is so hard physically for me to exercise at this weight and exercise is a big deal in sustained weight loss/maintenance also. I'm afraid I can't think of anything as effective as WLS, so do you mind if I ask why it is not an option for your daughter?

My daughter is not nearly as overweight as we were. She only needs to lose about 30 pounds. She has made progress lately exercising with me on walks with kettle bells. She is on a "not eat too much" diet now which is working.

She has lost and gained the same weight over and over like most of us. It has been many years since she was at her ideal weight.

Diet pills, expanding stomach fillers, maximum fiber, etc. there are a lot of ways to try and conquer the fat ogre. I wouldn't expect anything to be as effective as WLS but getting reasonably close would be great. Anyone get anywhere with the ones I mentioned?

I had success both with Weight Watchers and Low Carb diet- but as soon as I lost the weight and went back into normal eating patterns all the weight came back on. Tracking my food always helped me to see how much I was really consuming, but most of the time I was depressed because even if I was over my allotted calories I was still always hungry. I'm just naturally always hungry. Immediately- as soon as I got sleeved I realized I wasn't hungry, and that in itself was life changing. No diet or magic pill could give me the sunsation of being full.

I truly believe that all your daughter needs to do is cut her portion sizes down to 1/2 and eat healthy. Meaning proteins first, veggies, and low fat....... Cut way back on the carbs and use My Fitness Pal to watch her calories. I do know that our hunger is in our head and that we turn to food to comfort ourselves. So we have to retrain our mines to using different coping skills during times of stress and even boredom. This is what we are doing right now. The thing that gives us the greater advantage is the time right after surgery when our stomachs are traumatized and swollen and we can't get anything in. But later we are able to eat children's size meals. We will even gain the weight back if we revert back to unhealthy eating patterns. We all have to eat healthy to stay healthy and maintain our weight loss. We all struggle with head hunger........

I could easily consume a two cheesburger, large frie and large diet coke with a dessert from Mc Donalds and even squeeze in a couple of my son's uneaten chicken nuggets before surgery. I attempted 2 french fries and 2 chicken nuggets with water the other day on the way to his soccer practice and nearly had to pull the car over to throw up. Too much carbs, and too much food period. I'm eating almost 20% of my former diet if not less. Healthy food choices are absolutely essential, but portion control is a huge factor as well. Even the food tastes different to me now- and I dislike it. Which is quite helpful because I no longer crave a lot of the crappy food I use to adore.

The key is tracking food and exercise. The problem is you can't stop tracking. At first you write down everything you are going to eat for the day and all your exercise in advance. If it's not written down you don't eat it. Once you get beyond that you track what you eat and do as you do it. Once you hit your daily allowances you stop.

The problem is it's tough to maintain that regimen indefinitely. If you can though and don't have other medical issues, like diabetes, it will work.

I think someone younger who is only 30# overweight would be well served to do the slow, lifestyle overhaul. Here is why i say that - i have gained and lost and regained bigger numbers then that many many many times. I did it via weight watchers, I did it on my own, I did it using nutrisystems... etc etc. What I could never do was keep it off.

I think the reasons are complex, and hunger played a key role. The fatter I got, the more :"out of control" that hunger got. Metabolic disorder is what they call it now. It is like pre-diabetes even if you don't "test" as that high of blood sugar that is what is really going on. I have a fat pony who is always hungry and can eat until he explodes, there is no off button - I have to physically limit his access to food and then there is my lean riding horse that stops when he is done even if delicious food is sitting in front of him. There is something physically different - it isn't a character flaw that fat pony is always hungry (he isn't really fat, but blink and he gets that way). My vet calls it a predisposition to insulin resistance - the key is to not let him get fat or he will develop a full on metabolic disorder - that is what I had.

So, diets are great for short term, but what I needed was a deeper understanding of my illness and how to manage it. If it were my daughter, I would counsel her to work with a nutritionalist that understands all this - and many of them don't. Learn how to eat really small portions of moderate carb. I am talking basically no simple carbs and limited veggie/fruit and whole grain carbs. I would visualize losing those 30 pounds over a year or two - really slow - but the main thing is learning how to manage this "illness" this metabolic monster. I don't know for sure, but I think if i had been able to do that when I was young I would not have needed WLS.

I was never a binger like eat 2 hamburgers at a sitting or anything. I was more a persistant over eater. Every meal, just eating a little too much. Too often having seconds. Too often having dessert or some high carb delight. My hubby could never understand how I kept so much weight on as it never seemed like I ate huge portions or ate all the time. He was right, it was more like always eating a bit too much, a bit too rich of food and it really adds up.

I still find it shocking that a full grown adult who is fairly active (me) lives on eating meals from a teaplate. The idea is still mind boggling, but it is the reality for some of us "fat ponies"

2 pounds from goal!!!! WooHoo!!!! You guys ROCK, CONGRATS!!!

I think someone younger who is only 30# overweight would be well served to do the slow, lifestyle overhaul. Here is why i say that - i have gained and lost and regained bigger numbers then that many many many times. I did it via weight watchers, I did it on my own, I did it using nutrisystems... etc etc. What I could never do was keep it off.

I think the reasons are complex, and hunger played a key role. The fatter I got, the more :"out of control" that hunger got. Metabolic disorder is what they call it now. It is like pre-diabetes even if you don't "test" as that high of blood sugar that is what is really going on. I have a fat pony who is always hungry and can eat until he explodes, there is no off button - I have to physically limit his access to food and then there is my lean riding horse that stops when he is done even if delicious food is sitting in front of him. There is something physically different - it isn't a character flaw that fat pony is always hungry (he isn't really fat, but blink and he gets that way). My vet calls it a predisposition to insulin resistance - the key is to not let him get fat or he will develop a full on metabolic disorder - that is what I had.

So, diets are great for short term, but what I needed was a deeper understanding of my illness and how to manage it. If it were my daughter, I would counsel her to work with a nutritionalist that understands all this - and many of them don't. Learn how to eat really small portions of moderate carb. I am talking basically no simple carbs and limited veggie/fruit and whole grain carbs. I would visualize losing those 30 pounds over a year or two - really slow - but the main thing is learning how to manage this "illness" this metabolic monster. I don't know for sure, but I think if i had been able to do that when I was young I would not have needed WLS.

I was never a binger like eat 2 hamburgers at a sitting or anything. I was more a persistant over eater. Every meal, just eating a little too much. Too often having seconds. Too often having dessert or some high carb delight. My hubby could never understand how I kept so much weight on as it never seemed like I ate huge portions or ate all the time. He was right, it was more like always eating a bit too much, a bit too rich of food and it really adds up.

I still find it shocking that a full grown adult who is fairly active (me) lives on eating meals from a teaplate. The idea is still mind boggling, but it is the reality for some of us "fat ponies"

I completely agree with you. I've always been an athlete and I was in the Army and could eat a hardy diet and stay only slightly overweight, and teeter totter back and forth into a healthy BMI when I was required to. The problem was once I stopped working out my appetite was still there and I wasn't working out nearly as much, the weight didn't come on over night, maybe 3 to 4 lbs a month over the course of a few years that added to about a 50+ lbs weight gain. The bigger I got, the hungerier I was, allllll the time. Dr. Alavarez was my surgeon and he did diagnose me with a metabolic disorder just as you had mentioned. The bigger I got, the hungier I was, and I had complete insulin resistance and was even put on medications for it. After surgery my hunger went almost completely away, and now I have it but in the faintest form. Nothing like it was before- that by itself was life altering. I know how to eat healthy and workout, but my brain was always hungry and I was never on the same page with my body. Self control is mysterious to me- so much self control in other areas of my life, and yet I struggled so fiercely with my weight and controlling my eating habbits

At one point we we all only 30 lbs overweight...and it didnt stop us. I wish your daughter the best of luck with her diet. I hope she can take off the LBS and keep it off. I just remember how hard it was pre op and how easy, yep I said it, it is now in comparison. I know vsg is a tool but for me post op life and weightloss has been much much easier.

gmanbat,,,,,you know taht old adage...'teh definitoon of insanity is trying the same thing over and oevr and epecting a different result'?....well......would diet and eercieto loe wt not fit erfectly under that?.....if i put my hair in a pont tail holder--it will gather together...but the inute i remove the holder my hair will fall freely once again. Diet and eercise is no different.....so long as one is doing it it will keep teh wt down....but it is not realistically sustainable and as soon as we revert to a more realistic way of eating teh wt will return. this isnt a weight struggle....the wt is a side effcet...in those with lifelong struggles w wt this i a metabolic imbalance...no different than diabetes...except the imbalance is in different horones (though often including insulin). The only way that wt will stay off will be if she engages in a low carb lifestyle.....as carbs alter our hormones and eating low carb alters hormones in favor of wt loss an dwt maintenance. Notice i said low carb lifestyle not low car diet.....teh difference? a diet implies a begining and an end....a lifestyle is an acceptance that she can no longer eat large amounts of carbs if she wanst to sustain her wt where she wanst it. The first 3 days on low carn are the hardest as you need to 'deto yourself..after that the cravings go away and you can coast and teh binges go away. For me i had to go very low carb for it to work...i did Atkins years ago and for teh first tie in my life the binges and onsession to food stopped....i ate all i wanted but no carbs...bevr really getting much past induction (the strictest low carb phase of atkins)...i actually stayed on that way of eating for 15 years...yes YEARS....15 years!.....during that tie i was able to maintain my wt in the 170s for the most part.....150 is a bikini body for me due to my frame and muscle mass from years of hard exercising. I pretty much worse a size 10 and a medium/large....my downfall?......i got pregnant and drs forced me to eat carbs......i did....and now almost 3 ys later i havent been able to get back on the low carb wagon as being without carbs so long i was able to stay away...but once i got a tast of them again my addiction to them went into full swing....today i am at my all time heaviest...i weigh 226....thugh last year i was 200....for the firt time in my life i have not 'dieted or watched what im eating ' and in fact i have given in to every damn craving i have had......i suffered a great tragedy a year and a half ago and it mad em just give up and give in.......so here i am....at my all time high....soeone who has worked out enough in their lives to be an olympic athlete (2 hrs a day 7 days a week for most of my life.....though olympic athletes do 6hrs a ay....u geteh idea)...anyway....youd think that someone like me would never be this overwt let alone need wt loss suergery.......yet i am... and i do....

Sadly your daughter...like most people...will have to accept that she has a choice....either struggle with these 30lbs up and down for the rest of her life.....or decide she can live a low carb lifestyle........and while tehre are many who eat lareg amts of carbs and stay thin by losing on jenny craig or other low calorie diets....they likely do not have a metabolic imbalance......if she has been struggling w her wt her whole life...or for many years...she likely does...especially since both of her parents had problems in this area.

sorryto b the beareer of bad news......but the upside is that science is now accepting that ghrelin and leptin are hormones that play a large role in wt regulation (which wls auto corrects)....and as such tehy are working on new mdications that will be ghrelin 'blockers' and wor similarly the way diabetes meds work on insulin. Nevertheless.....dont epect any meds of this natur eto be out for at least 10-15 years as the wheels of the FDA work very...very slow.

I love how you love your daughter so much to share about her here! What a dad! Like so many have stated above it comes down to tracking food in and exercise out! I can see from being newly sleeved that besides my emotional hunger-needing to be over-full, my body needs a lot less calories than I was giving it! All my prior 'diets' worked, for a while, as long as my calories were very restricted. Whether it was portion control (Jenny Craig, WW) or exercising to burn off excess cals. as soon as I stopped-I gained!

I hope for her sake and from seeing what you and your wife have gone through with obesity that she gets a grip on her 30 pounds before it's 40 than 50! I never would have dreamed as a young girl that so much if my adult life wound be consumed with weight loss! I wish I "got it" in my teens when the yo-yo-ing started! Good luck to your 2 pounds to goal-fabulous!!

Advocare has great supplements and a really good kick off program called the 24 day challenge. She could find a group doing a challenge locally and jump on board. The built in support group and eating recommendations/guidelines might help her out.