Ok so I love polls. And I love politics. So what political party has the most lapband recipient votes? We'll soon find out!!

Bigbootygirl, I think only Republicans should speak for Republicans...so I will tell you, as a Republican, why I think most of us don't bother with these political threads. I have seen and experienced the onslaught of attacks directed at anyone who thinks differently from the Democrats... While Republicans allow Democrats to have their say without badgering them on their beliefs, the same does not hold true for most Dems. If a Republican questions or debates, they are "mean-spirited", but Dems can call names, question the intelligence of Republicans, even openly discuss with smugness and superiority (as if they know for a fact) Republican values and morality, as if we are all one and the same .... and they are called "passionate". Now, I know I am inviting attack AGAIN for even posting here, but honestly, I should have the right to state an opinion without anyone questioning me ad nauseum. I don't have the same amount of time that some others here have for endless debate. I am rational, intelligent, well-read, AND compassionate, and it has been my experience that most of my fellow Republicans are the same. We live in a world of liberal media, liberal thinking and political correctness, yet we manage to sift through it all and hold onto our beliefs and values. I am proud to be a Republican, a conservative, and a Christian.

Karen

AMEN Karen:clap2: I stopped posting when things starting turning a bit negative and only ocassionaly have visited back. I just don't have the time or the "negative" engergy for these sorts of things! I have very strong core beliefs and thats a part of who I am. I voted recently, never miss local or major elections. The sad thing is the majority Americans including Repbublicans don't speak their mind the right way.( They argue on chats borads for hours!HA) VOTE that is our true impact as an American Citizens, your true commitment to your beliefs! :biggrin1:

L8BloomR, I do agree with your analysis of the situation. If a person reads through the posts on this thread, and cannot see the vitriol directed toward the conservative members who posted in it, then they are just not trying hard enough. Even spelling the president's name "BuSh" is disrespectful, not to the man, but to our country. Another term I read in this thread that is considered an ad hominem attack is "baby Bush". Please notice that I am addressing language and terms, and not the people using the terms.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Americans do not see that it is good to disagree, but it is bad to split our country down the middle and rip it into pieces, and then leave it in ruins for others to take. When the disagreements become hateful and not policy-centered, and are focused on the man who happens to be President (and will be out of office a short two years from now), the conservative members probably just quit posting on these threads, NOT because we do not have an "arsenal" of arguments, but because it is obvious that there is no argument that would be deemed worthy of consideration.

Dpingl and Mousecrazy: Thanks, you guys!! Those were great posts!! I expected to get "flamed" like crazy, but I really am gratified that it hasn't happened (so far...!) and I really respect the way you responded with intelligence and grace. You guys rule!

Karen

Maybe the reason people here seem to attack the man - George W. Bush - is because we got so darned tired of Republicans attacking the man - Clinton - in very personal ways. You can't have it both ways. You can't attack Clinton with regard to his personal life and then not expect to hear it about Georgie-porgie.

And let's set this record straight. To criticize a president of the United States of America while he's in office is not a criticizism of the United States or its' military. It is in fact, very American and just exactly what the framers of the Constitution made sure that citizens of the United States are able to do without it being considered un-American. Free speech, ya gotta love it, man. Consider the alternative.

Besides it is as far as I'm concerned un-American for people to tell others, with whom they disagree, that because they are Democrats and "liberal" that they aren't good Christians and they are traitors to their country. Balderdash. By insulting their fellow Americans personally aren't they guilty of not sticking with political discussion?

BJean, I haven't seen anyone here call anyone else "traitors" or "unChristian"... Where do you see that? And I also don't see anyone stopping anyone else from criticizing the President or the country. But many of us on this side shudder when we hear "Bush is a drunk", "Bush is an idiot", etc., because not only is it non-constructive, it demeans the man at a time of war. You are intitled to say whatever you want, we are intitled to wish you wouldn't. Why does that bother you so much? Are you the only one that can have an opinion?

I was merely taking exception to some of the remarks made in this thread, repeatedly. Perhaps they were not saying "criticism of Bush means you aren't a Christian" in those words, but they and the patriot comments are certainly insinuated by the words that were written.

It bothers me because it seems like the Republican posts here show that they are very bothered by Demos' remarks about BuSh. They have been so bothered, it seems, that they have accused Demos of being unpatriotic and not good Christians. Neither is necessarily true. And I wished to point out that for Republicans to become defensive because they are outnumbered here shouldn't prompt them to insult, personally, people for stating their feelings or beliefs.

You are entitled to say what you want, we are entitled to wish you wouldn't... but we shouldn't attack each others' morals, should we?

As to your question, "Are you the only one entitled to an opinion?" is provocative and it seems to be looking for a fight. But of course, you're entitled to say what you want... it doesn't necessarily mean what I think it does. As long as we all agree about that, there is no fight to be had, is there?

I was merely taking exception to some of the remarks made in this thread, repeatedly. Perhaps they were not saying "criticism of Bush means you aren't a Christian" in those words, but they and the patriot comments are certainly insinuated by the words that were written.

It bothers me because it seems like the Republican posts here show that they are very bothered by Demos' remarks about BuSh. They have been so bothered, it seems, that they have accused Demos of being unpatriotic and not good Christians. Neither is necessarily true. And I wished to point out that for Republicans to become defensive because they are outnumbered here shouldn't prompt them to insult, personally, people for stating their feelings or beliefs.

You are entitled to say what you want, we are entitled to wish you wouldn't... but we shouldn't attack each others' morals, should we?

As to your question, "Are you the only one entitled to an opinion?" is provocative and it seems to be looking for a fight. But of course, you're entitled to say what you want... it doesn't necessarily mean what I think it does. As long as we all agree about that, there is no fight to be had, is there?

You are right---I should not have phrased that last sentence in that way, and I apologize. I should have said "Aren't Republicans entitled to their opinion?" But I still don't see anywhere in this thread where a Democrat's patriotism is in question. I have looked all through it. And there is no implied attack on anyone's morals, either. Where do you see that? The whole point of this thread was to state your political affiliation, and I was pointing out that almost every time a Republican posted, their judgement was questioned, while the opposite never happened. You also say that the Republicans were insulting people personally for stating their opinions, and I don't see that either! Can you please send me the post numbers? I really do want to understand where you are coming from on this.

Karen

I am probably lumping all these Rants and Raves together. Although there has been at least some negative inflection in some Republican posts here. I don't have time to go back through all of them. Just ignore me if you like. I didn't direct my posts to you or anyone else. I was just stating my opinion. You don't have to agree with me. I don't have to justify my thoughts. Go ahead and pot shot all you want, I'm not all that concerned one way or the other. I didn't mean to upset you. I just got tired of Republicans saying the others were being personal when I had an opposing view and finally decided to voice it.

Democrats can say all they want about Bush, I just still cannot get past my grandchildren knowing about oral sex before they learn multiplication tables. It is still such a sad thing for our country.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's especially disturbing to me that my grandchildren know about all the dead Americans being brought home in body bags before they learn their multiplication tables. At least sex is a biological function that they will someday experience one way or the other. One hopes that they never have to experience death or dismemberment in the Middle East.

Did you say that about the body bags in German or Russian or Iranian or some other lanquage? And, you don't have to tell/ask me about my concern, my son enlisted in 1995 and is still in the military protecting our freedoms so you can speak freely!

Wait a minute. Bush creates a war and then we're not supposed to speak unkindly of him because we're at war? Isn't that like someone killing their parents and then asking for pity because they're an orphan?

First, it's not REALLY a war. Congress declares war and they haven't yet.

Then, it is IMPOSSIBLE...IM-FREAKIN'-POSSIBLE...to win a "war on crime," "a war on hunger," "a war on disease," or "a war on drugs," "a war on terror," or any other evil thing. Those things...crime, hunger, drugs and terror will never completely go away and therefore no war against them can or will ever be "won."

So, Pres NumbNutz attacks the wrong country for the wrong reasons and then declares a purpose that cannot be accomplished in his lifetime, my lifetime, your lifetime...and we're not supposed to speak unkindly of him because we're at war? Sorry, but that's EXACTLY why we have to speak up.

That emperor is stark-naked.

I thought it was Clinton that was stark naked?

I thought it was Clinton that was stark naked?

NO...neither the giver nor the receiver has to get stark naked for a blow job.

Sue

:::starting to think that SOME education--although not for children, so I wish the Republicans HADN'T insisted on all that publicity--on the nature of these things MIGHT be in order:::

The battle is being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as many other places, and was started by repeated terrorist attacks on American citizens and military by various terrorist associations, mostly Al Qaeda. It is no longer a war against another country/countries.

The ideology of Naziism, most effectively popularized and lead by Adolf Hitler, is similar in some respects to the ideology of Jihadist Islam, most effectively popularized and lead by Osama bin Laden.

Saying that President Bush started this war would be like saying President Roosevelt started World War II. Once our nation has been attacked, and repeatedly, then we must protect our nation. Because it is an ideological enemy, and not a nation, the battle is complicated and amorphous. I admire President Bush for recognizing the nature of the threat and standing firm in his committment in facing it.

How would we view President Roosevelt now, if he had decided not to defend the country, and especially if he had decided not to liberate most of Western Europe, and save many in concentration camps from certain death?

Who among us likes war? I do not, but believe it is righteous and necessary, much as defending your little sister or brother from a bully is righteous and necessary. That's a simplistic explanation, but I think it is relevant.

I am proud that my DD understands that there are Americans who are brave and courageous and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country. That is in absolutely no way shameful. It is heroic and admirable and thank God for those men and women.

BJean, specifically to you, I am sorry you feel personally attacked or abused by an opposing point of view. Yet, in your post complaining about that, you continue to use terms like Georgie-porgie, and BuSh, which simply ARE disrespectful and ARE ad-hominem attacks. Like you, I did not go back through and read everything, but I do not believe that those on the liberal/left are un-Christian or un-patriotic; however, they DO most certainly have a different perspective, and one with which I do not agree. I do not succeed 100% of the time, but I do try to keep my language neutral, and present reasons for my opinion. I think one does need to support one's opinions...otherwise, what value do they have? Anyone can say any emotionally-based thing, without logic or reason, and without even understanding it. When asked to provide some evidence, it would be a mistake to take that as a personal attack. It is a simple requirement of discussion and debate.