So, those of you who have been following the other thread ("My kids just don't like vegetables!") will know that it's now been locked. A disagreement arose there between two posters, one expressing her difficulties broadening the diet of her naturally picky-eater and the other responding that the concept of picky-eaters is a myth and that the child's attitude is the fault of the parent. As a side note, the poster with the picky-eater was nice enough to offer an apology to the entire thread for the ensuing argument. Now, I don't believe that she actually owes anyone an apology, not least because of the fact that these threads belong to all of us (not only the thread-starter). However, this is a new thread about a connected topic. This isn't meant to be a thread for the continuation of the personal quarrel between the two posters. If anyone would like to respond, please try to refrain from bringing up the subject of who was right and wrong in the previous dispute, who behaved poorly, who owes whom an apology etc. Anyone eager to share their opinions on those matters is welcome to leave comments on my profile page, or to begin a private conversation with others concerned. This thread is solely for a discussion of philosophical differences in the approach to feeding children healthy foods.

Bandsters, we all are trying to change our own approach to food for the better. Those bandsters with children are also faced with the exhausting task of changing their family's dietary habits as well.

The topic of this thread is: should parents physically or emotionally force their children to eat healthy foods? I don't mean to ask whether parents even have the right to try to influence their children in healthy-eating. I believe that they do have a natural authority over their children, for the children's own good. It is the parent's concern when a child is doing something wrong and it is their place to attempt to correct the child's detrimental behaviour (or do you disagree?). I doubt that most of us will disagree with that. Where our opinions may diverge is to what extent this authority exists and what strategies overstep the bounds of this authority.

Those of you who've read the previous thread will know that I believe that bandsters, while avoiding unhealthy foods for themselves, are wrong to continue to purchase bad foods for their children (soda, pop-tarts, fruit-loops, kool-aid, chicken nuggets, white bread etc). "If it's not healthy for you, it's not healthy for them!" I also believe that most, but not all, of the North American children who hate veggies and fruit do so because their own parents have negative attitudes toward healthy foods.

But what do you do about the naturally picky-eater? Or is there even such a thing? What if your child refused to even try new foods? Some follow that parents should force the child to sit at the dinner table until they've finished their food. Others argue that parents should respect at least a limited sense of a child's own autonomy and that it's wrong to force the child, physically or emotionally, to eat even a single bite of broccoli when it's against their will. Some will say that picky-eaters only exist because parents allow children free-reign over what they eat or make too many alternatives available to their child. Others will respond that a parent has no choice but to offer alternatives lest their child starves, and that, in fact, there is such a thing as the naturally picky-eater. Further, they argue that even if they could force their children to eat certain foods, these actions would only upset the child and, thereby, contribute to a negative psychological association with healthy foods in the child's mind. Also, is your strategy of broadening your child's diet immediate or gradual? In other words, do you try to introduce veggies and fruit over time, or do you expect that the child try at least a bite or all of each new food the first time that you offer it?

You don't need to answer all of the posed questions or address all issues mentioned. You can even pose relevant questions of your own and bring up issues related to the topic that I haven't even considered. This is just to get the ball rolling, whatever the direction it ends up taking. Everyone has their own perspective on the topic and I'm looking forward to hearing it. Don't be afraid to express an unpopular opinion; we don't have to agree with each other (that'd be too boring!). It may be difficult at times, but let's try to share our views with civility.

Well said Cheri. My life and parenting experience teaches me those same thoughts.

I was never forced to eat any veggies.. probably why I like so few now, and probably why i'm over weight. My parents would never say no.. I think it's ok to force it upon them. Well gently.. but they should be introduced to a healthy diet at a young age.

I have 2 children one 10 the other 11 the 11 year old will eat anything but prefers vegetables only, and the 10 year old will only eat it if it can be microwaved or fried as long as it isnt a vegetable, both of my children have been exposed to many different types and encouraged to eat healthy foods. IMHO i feel that feeding your children a well balanced diet is important and a parental DUTY. In order to accomplish this I start at the grocery store and buy only those things that can be incorporated into a ballanced diet. My10 year old will eat anything in the house he likes first, then he will resort to eating other "junk" (as he puts it, this of course only makes me hide a smile). The thing that I have realized it that his stomach is a powerful motivator when it comes to eating and that he wont let himself starve just because we only bought one box of Hot Pockets for him to eat.

Question: My 11 year old girl would be a vegetarian if I let her, not out of any kind of moral issue but because it is what she likes, should I cater to her eating perferences when I don't cater to her brother's or do I treat her the same and only offer her the same balanced diet we all eat?

Question: My 11 year old girl would be a vegetarian if I let her, not out of any kind of moral issue but because it is what she likes, should I cater to her eating perferences when I don't cater to her brother's or do I treat her the same and only offer her the same balanced diet we all eat?

This is why I said my child would have had to discuss rationally why he wants to eat vegetarian. If it was just to avoid the foods he didn't like, then my answer would have been 'no'. If it was because of a moral reason, then no problem. A child who's smart enough to use the moral reason when it isn't...well, they'll soon find out that a lot of their favorite 'junk' food is made with animal products (fats, etc.).

Like you, I feel it is my duty as a parent to teach my children to eat a balanced diet and I don't believe I'm setting them up for an eating disorder by making them try 2 bites of a dish before they refuse it. There is nothing I hate more than hearing an adult say "Ew...I can't stand <insert food here>" and they've never even tried it. Such unreasonable thought processes rarely stay segregated to one part of their life.

So I failed to mention that my daughter has to try 2 new things on weekends. Thats our deal usually she says she doesn't like it and we move on.

Today at the grocery store she picked out mini corndogs. ( I know not the best choice, but she has never even tried one before!) We get home and my husband start preheating the oven and notices that they are veggie corn dogs! Duh duh duh! She loved em!

Thats fine with me at least I can ad something new to her menu! Lol

food is not something I thought should be a punishable offense.... and no child should be sent to bed with out a meal because he does not like a certain food.

My sentiments exactly, and if someone wishes to be offended because I wouldn't dream of adopting their parentlng practices for my own children, well, okay. I assume they also would not adopt my practices so we're even on that score.

I am appalled by the idea of forcing children to eat a particular food, whether you physically shove the food in their mouths or give them the choice of 1) try it or 2) do completely without food already on the table that they do like until the next time they are faced with the same draconian decision. Introducing fresh fruit and vegetables at an early age is one thing; forcing someone to eat two bites of lima Beans before they can eat something more appetizing is another. My children grew up to be healthy adults who eat a wide variety of good food, including some things they despised earlier in life.

When I was a child, I had a genuine horror of being forced to eat something that repelled me for reasons I generally kept to myself. My mom always managed to have at least one food at every meal that all of us liked. I may have dined on potatoes and green beans one evening while my brother chose to eat only the meat, but both of us were happy with what we got.

I actually fled a Brownie "cookout" once because the leader was determined to make me eat canned spaghetti which looked like bloody worms to me instead of the lunch I brought from home. Being punished for not dining on sphaghetti did not make any positive impression on me; it just made me realize that the world was full of people with control issues and I needed to work harder to avoid them.

We get home and my husband start preheating the oven and notices that they are veggie corn dogs! Duh duh duh! She loved em!

ROFL...love it.

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I am appalled by the idea of forcing children to eat a particular food, whether you physically shove the food in their mouths or give them the choice of 1) try it or 2) do completely without food already on the table that they do like until the next time they are faced with the same draconian decision.

See...so we do think alike. I'm appalled by by idea of allowing a child to illogically refuse to eat something when they haven't even tried it.

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Its hard to distinguish between foods they really dont like and foods that they just dont want to eat because they'd rather have pizza, isnt it? I mean, I dont eat things I dont like, and I think expecting a child to is rather barbaric. But I eat things becuase I know I should when I'd really rather have something else that's not so nutritions or is high in calories all the time. I expect my children to eat sensibly in that way but if they really dont like something then they dont like it, end of story.

I have also never eaten snails or kidneys or brains and I never bloody will. I am NOT going to eat something that revolts me just because I "should try it" and same deal with children. If something looks that disgusting to them, then they're not goign to be forced to eat it.

Everyone's opinion is so different not one side against the other side but a lot of in betweens, pretty neat. I guess that is why our children all grow up so different. But we all know no matter what they eat or don't eat most of all they need our love and understanding and encouragement . . . but love most of all

Cheri

See...so we do think alike. I'm appalled by by idea of allowing a child to illogically refuse to eat something when they haven't even tried it.

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Well, bless your heart, honey, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but okay.

A child's logic is not the same as adult logic, but it is logic all the same. As far as my seven year old self was concerned, that spaghetti looked like bloody worms and nothing in adult logic was going to convince me otherwise. Where is the wisdom in forcing a child to eat something that to her eyes is so disgusting just because it isn't disgusting to an adult's eyes?

I think a topic like this may ruffle a few feathers because you/we are telling people how to parent. I'm not saying that anything said was wrong in any way. I'm just saying that even I had a sense of "who is that person telling me how to parent?"

It's just a touchy subject when we try to tell others how to parent.

See, like I said, touchy subject................

This is an interesting topic. My sons are grown adults now, and despite my best efforts, they still eat as they were inclined to eat from birth. Let me explain....

My older son loved veggies from the moment he tasted his first baby food. He never cared for sweets or salts. In 5th grade, when they had to bring a mid-morning snack (for some reason the 5th graders had the last lunch period, like 1:00 or so), my son requested raw broccoli with french dressing to dip it in, carrot and celery sticks with Peanut Butter, zucchini muffins, etc. His classmates were bringing chips and Cookies. He is very headstrong and independent, so it didn't bother him to be different. Funny thing happened, though. His teacher told me that his classmates had been asking him to trade Snacks and he refused. She noticed that one by one, the others started to bring in healthier snacks as well. Not all of them, mind you. At any rate, at 30 years old, he still snacks on raw veggies and never touches sugar. He just doesn't care for it, never did. He's rather sedentary, never was much of an athlete, and prefers reading over exercising, but maintains a healthy BMI.

On to son #2, who has always been a junk food junkie. He would spit his baby veggies back at me and eat only his Cereal and maybe some fruit. Even at age 28, his idea of dinner is a chocolate cake (yes, A cake, as in the whole cake). Since he graduated high school and is no longer active in sports, he has grown considerably wider. Now well over 200 pounds I worry that he will end up with some of my health issues.

Now, what did I do regarding meals when they were younger? Up through elementary school, as others have done, I had a one-bite rule. They had to taste it. If they didn't like it, they were done with it. I never forced them to eat any particular food, nor did I insist that they clean their plate. I always suspected that was my problem. I grew up on a farm, so wasting food was not allowed, and I became accustomed to eating large portions, hence my weight problems. I never told them they couldn't have any particular food, because for most kids, the forbidden fruit is always the sweetest, so they'll sneak it anyway when they're not home. Just ask my mom what kinds of treats son #2 asked for when they were with her and I wasn't there.

While the boys were in elementary and middle schools I packed their lunches. I stayed away from artificial ingredients as much as possible, baking their dessert from scratch. I even snuck some veggies in the dessert (zucchini or carrots into cupcakes, for example). Our only indulgence was Friday pizza.

When they entered high school they wanted to buy lunch. I knew I would have to leave them to their own devices one day, so I figured they needed the practice while they were still young enough to honestly answer the question "what did you eat for lunch today". Did they always make good choices? No. For example, both of my sons are lactose intolerant. Son #2 hates milk products so that was never a problem, but #1 loves milk, and despite knowing he would come home sick as a dog, would sometimes buy a couple of bagels with cream cheese and drink 5 cartons of milk for lunch. Remember, this is the one who loves veggies.

So, no matter what foods we try to sway them towards, they will reach an age (usually about 7th or 8th grade) where they will do what they will. I am a teacher and my mom was a food service worker in a middle school. We would often talk about how we would see kids use their lunch money to buy 3 ice cream sandwiches instead of the actual lunch. Kids who got free lunches had to take theirs, but they'd walk right over to the trash can and dump their untouched tray, only to return to the lunch line to buy ice cream. Even at the high school level where I work, most students don't buy lunch. They buy chips and sugar-laden Fruit drinks from the vending machines. When the cat (mom) is away, the mice will indeed play.

Oh, and yes, the staff tried to get the vending machines removed for years, and finally did one year, for about a month until parents inundated the board office with complaints.

At any rate, my final conclusion is, it's part inborn, part learned. Both of my boys learned what was healthy food, but still prefer what they've always preferred before they could utter a coherent word. Hence, my efforts to lead them toward healthy eating were pretty much in vain.

See, like I said, touchy subject................

My point was that it didn't have to be a touchy subject and even if it was, so what? First of all, most people here aren't telling people "how to parent." This thread has been going on quite successfully for a while. Most posters have managed to tell people how they, personally, approach feeding their own children without causing controversy. Also, we're all adults; I'm sure, as we've shown, that we can handle a debate maturely. There isn't any need to be fearful of touchy subjects if everyone communicates their differing opinions rationally and respectfully.

Well, bless your heart, honey, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but okay.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt (obviously an error on my part) that you recognize that *your* way isn't the only right way. We'll let it go at that.

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