So, those of you who have been following the other thread ("My kids just don't like vegetables!") will know that it's now been locked. A disagreement arose there between two posters, one expressing her difficulties broadening the diet of her naturally picky-eater and the other responding that the concept of picky-eaters is a myth and that the child's attitude is the fault of the parent. As a side note, the poster with the picky-eater was nice enough to offer an apology to the entire thread for the ensuing argument. Now, I don't believe that she actually owes anyone an apology, not least because of the fact that these threads belong to all of us (not only the thread-starter). However, this is a new thread about a connected topic. This isn't meant to be a thread for the continuation of the personal quarrel between the two posters. If anyone would like to respond, please try to refrain from bringing up the subject of who was right and wrong in the previous dispute, who behaved poorly, who owes whom an apology etc. Anyone eager to share their opinions on those matters is welcome to leave comments on my profile page, or to begin a private conversation with others concerned. This thread is solely for a discussion of philosophical differences in the approach to feeding children healthy foods.

Bandsters, we all are trying to change our own approach to food for the better. Those bandsters with children are also faced with the exhausting task of changing their family's dietary habits as well.

The topic of this thread is: should parents physically or emotionally force their children to eat healthy foods? I don't mean to ask whether parents even have the right to try to influence their children in healthy-eating. I believe that they do have a natural authority over their children, for the children's own good. It is the parent's concern when a child is doing something wrong and it is their place to attempt to correct the child's detrimental behaviour (or do you disagree?). I doubt that most of us will disagree with that. Where our opinions may diverge is to what extent this authority exists and what strategies overstep the bounds of this authority.

Those of you who've read the previous thread will know that I believe that bandsters, while avoiding unhealthy foods for themselves, are wrong to continue to purchase bad foods for their children (soda, pop-tarts, fruit-loops, kool-aid, chicken nuggets, white bread etc). "If it's not healthy for you, it's not healthy for them!" I also believe that most, but not all, of the North American children who hate veggies and fruit do so because their own parents have negative attitudes toward healthy foods.

But what do you do about the naturally picky-eater? Or is there even such a thing? What if your child refused to even try new foods? Some follow that parents should force the child to sit at the dinner table until they've finished their food. Others argue that parents should respect at least a limited sense of a child's own autonomy and that it's wrong to force the child, physically or emotionally, to eat even a single bite of broccoli when it's against their will. Some will say that picky-eaters only exist because parents allow children free-reign over what they eat or make too many alternatives available to their child. Others will respond that a parent has no choice but to offer alternatives lest their child starves, and that, in fact, there is such a thing as the naturally picky-eater. Further, they argue that even if they could force their children to eat certain foods, these actions would only upset the child and, thereby, contribute to a negative psychological association with healthy foods in the child's mind. Also, is your strategy of broadening your child's diet immediate or gradual? In other words, do you try to introduce veggies and fruit over time, or do you expect that the child try at least a bite or all of each new food the first time that you offer it?

You don't need to answer all of the posed questions or address all issues mentioned. You can even pose relevant questions of your own and bring up issues related to the topic that I haven't even considered. This is just to get the ball rolling, whatever the direction it ends up taking. Everyone has their own perspective on the topic and I'm looking forward to hearing it. Don't be afraid to express an unpopular opinion; we don't have to agree with each other (that'd be too boring!). It may be difficult at times, but let's try to share our views with civility.

Ok. Nevermind. Moving on. sorry I interrupted your thread.

That's alright. It is everyone's thread. If you want to add in your strategies on picky-eaters, I'm sure the rest of the thread's followers would welcome your input.

Maybe you missed it in my first post. I said that modeling was my method of choice now that I'm beginning a healthier lifestyle. I also mentioned that I use different techniques as the situation demands. Sorry I couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer for you but that's all I've got.

Maybe you missed it in my first post. I said that modeling was my method of choice now that I'm beginning a healthier lifestyle. I also mentioned that I use different techniques as the situation demands. Sorry I couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer for you but that's all I've got.

I wasn't implying that you didn't give a satisfactory answer. I was saying that you're always welcome back to contribute any more thoughts you have on the subject.

I'm fairly new to here but I'll chime in because this is a subject near and dear to my heart.

My oldest son has autism and I have educated myself a great deal regarding how the food he consumes affects his body, brain and behavior. Years ago when I began the research regarding this I became of the opinion that if the food affects him it must also affect my youngest neurotypical son. Honestly, the concern I have with the food they put into their body's began as a concern for the physical and mental affects -- obesity really even wasn't a concern. And honestly, at this point, it still isn't. I am far more concerned on what the chemicals and dyes are doing to my children's brain cells than their waist lines.

I would say my autistic son eats 90% "healthy" and 10% "unhealthy". His unhealthy foods come in the form of gluten free pretzels, corn chips, Cookies. My neurotypical son is around 75% "healthy" and 25% "unhealthy". My autistic son brings his lunch to school everyday. I monitor every bite he puts in his mouth. He physically feels the affects of consuming food "he can not eat" and does not mind bringing his lunch everyday. My youngest is allowed to buy lunch from the school one day a week - usually Friday's. I have seen the school lunches and they are not the greatest. My youngest also must purchase skim or 1% white milk only - no chocolate or strawberry - or he is to drink Water. He does not complain about this.

As far as vegetables....I am fortunate that my kids are not really too picky. When they were babies and began to eat solid foods I started them on veggies vs fruits. This was because I was afraid that if they liked the sweet taste of pureed peaches or apples they would prefer it to the green Beans or peas. As they got older, and still today, the rule is you must try one bite of a new food. I do not accept them saying they do not like something without even trying it. If they do try it and say they do not like it then they are not forced to eat it at that meal. I will offer it again, and again, and maybe even again, and tell them they must take one bite. Most of the time I have found that they learn to like the vegetable. However, sometimes they don't. My oldest does not like broccoli or squash. I no longer offer these items to him on a regular basis. If I prepare these items in a new way (such as roasting broccoli) I will offer to him again and use the one bite rule. However, if I am making these items I know my oldest will not eat them therefore I will make additional veggies for everyone to enjoy. If my son declines squash and broccoli in exchange for swiss chard and brussell sprouts I am ok with that.

If my children ask for a snack I take a mental note of what they have eaten within the past couple of days. I will tell my kids that they can either have a healthy snack or an unhealthy snack. My kids know that healthy Snacks equal lowfat organic yogurt, string cheese, fruit, cherry tomatoes or carrots sticks and unhealthy snacks equal potato chips, crackers, cookies. The same goes for dessert....because dessert at our house is really just an after dinner snack. My kids don't consider dessert as something that has to be a sweet treat. I have found that allowing my kids to choose what they eat makes it easier for them to accept the healthy choice.

Everyone comments that my sons eats so well and they have never met children that eat so healthy. I am not going to lie...comments like that make me feel good as a parent. It makes me happy that I asked my 6 year old what he wanted me to cook for his birthday dinner and his response was "ASPARAGUS!!" However, he is 6...and when I asked him what he wanted as the main course he said "PIZZA!!". So, we had pizza and asparagus lol.

So...I often tell my DH that people must look at my diet and then look at my kids diet and say "where the heck did she go wrong?" I love my veggies....however I also love my brownies, cakes, candy, cookies which is is to blame for my weight problem (the other factor is my lack of movement). I monitor my kids intake of food so much that some would consider it excessive, yet when it comes to myself, I fill me up with crap. I don't fully "get it" --as far as why I do this. Maybe my therapist can help me figure that one out. lol. I do think I have some control issues that play a huge part in this.

At any rate I do feel to each his own. I certainly do not judge what others choose to do with their own children (not saying that anyone here was doing that!). I know that others may look at my autistic child and question if we are making the right decision in dealing with a situation with him. I do feel that parents, especially mothers, tend to be more judgmental of other mothers...think about it -- the debates are endless (breastfeeding vs formula, working mom vs stay at home mom, disposable diapers vs cloth diapers). I feel everyone needs to do what they think is best.

Thanks for posting this topic...it brought my out of lurking. lol.

Force your child to eat something? Never. Refuse to provide crap becuase they wont eat healthy stuff? Of course. That's what good parents do.l

My personal philosophy is that I provide what I consider good food, my kids have the choice whether to eat it or not. If they dont like what's served at the table they cn amke something else healthy, for sure, but I wont be manipulated into providing rubbish with a battle of wills.

I have a very picky eater. I cant design the entire family menu to always be based on him and the healthy foods he'll eat - and there are healthy foods he will eat, plenty of them. But some nights, we want something that he turns his nose up at, it wont kill him to eat a piece of wholegrain toast and Peanut Butter instead. It works fine for us. He doesnt eat salad - I always just chuck some peas and corn int he microwave for him if we want salad. I always freeze off portions of healthy meals like home made spaghetti bolognaise, curries, casseroles in single portiosn so that any of my three can heat something up after school. I provide plenty of crackers, rice cakes, cheese, good quality bread, spreads like vegemite and peanut butter, ham, they can always make healthy Snacks. i do allow them cakes and biscuits, they're healthy active and growing children but I bake them myself so they're not eating trans fats and additives. I do limit those foods though. There's loads of fresh fruit in the house all the time but only two of my three will eat it and only the youngest would actually choose fruit for a snack. My picky eater doesnt eat lunch at school, drives me absolutely insane, he simply will NOT eat a sandwich that has been prepacked and made in the mornign (we dont have school lunches in Australia, only a lunch order from the canteen, that is usually junk). If he'd eat a salad sandwich every day, he could have a lunch order every day but he will only order hot dogs and such, so he only gets money once every couple of weeks,. He wont eat anythingn "weird" at school like Pasta or rice or salads or Soups, although my youngest and eldest will happily take a thermos of home made Soup or such to school, so, middle child has no lunch (I always pack one, he never eats it). I cant force it, as long as he comes home and easts healthy food not junk its OK.

Mcdonalds, pizza, fish and chips, those are meals that we'd eat as a family maybe once a month - and its always been that way. I got fat on a healthy family diet plus extras I'd never let my kids eat in the quanitity that I did! Even with these healthy family habits, my eldest child is well and truly overweight now at a15, he eats just way too much and he's not active enough, he is completely and utterly hopeless at anythign sporty and eventually we had to let him give away the sports he hated so much. I do circuits with the treadmill and weights at home with him. The other two are always otuside playing and active.

I find with kids, it takes every bit as much willpower to keep them on a healthy plan as it does to stick to one yourself. YOu have to make yourself shop healthy, you cant just not be bothered to cook dinner, you have to avoid the convenience foods no matter how busy you are, you have to plan for busy times by freezing etc, you have to supervise, encourage, its bloody hard work. But to not do it is exactly the same as failing to look after yourself - a cop out. You can make all the excuses you like, and believe me, I know what it is to have kids whine and nag day in day out for junk, I know what it is to have them refuse to eat what you make, but you have to be adult. You've got a responsibility to your kids and if you dont feed them well, and give them every start for good heatlh, you're failing in that duty, pure and simple. Nobody said parenthood was easy.

But I think that duty is fullfilled by good role modelling and providing the right choices, you cannot force a child to eat or clean their plate.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to get my exceptionally picky eater to try new things. I refuse to force him to try (such as shoving the food in his mouth or yelling at him). I believe that will just cause him to not want to try new things at all as well as fear us and meal time. I don't know if this will work but I've made a chart. Starting next week, he will get a sticker for each day he tries a new food (he loves stickers). His end goal will be a Fisher Price Castle or some other toy he wants. I'm going to put a picture of it next to the chart. This method worked for potty training so I'm hoping it will work this way. I don't keep junk food in the house (as I will eat it first) but I have a heck of a time trying to get him to eat something different (even if he used to eat it before he went into "picky" mode). I saw the advice to have them eat two bites of each dish before eating what you want at the table. I liked that. I also liked how they would be sent to their room and could not have anything until the next meal. I'm just wondering if that would work on a three old. Well, I'll see how my chart works.

I saw the advice to have them eat two bites of each dish before eating what you want at the table. I liked that. I also liked how they would be sent to their room and could not have anything until the next meal. I'm just wondering if that would work on a three old. Well, I'll see how my chart works.

Yes, it will work on a 3 year old. No doubt it takes consistency and patience, but it can be done. The earlier you start, the better but I've retrained 'picky eaters' at the age of 9 and 10 (a friend's children)...and it only took a few days. It is simply being consistent and patient. Which is not to say that they won't continue to 'test your resolve' through the years just to make sure you really mean it.

I believe we need to pick our battles. If we make everything a battle, at some point they stop listening. So we choose what is important to us. In that same thought, we also felt it was important that our children feel they have some control over their lives. Nobody, not even a child, should ever feel they have no say in any part of their life...but they must also learn that there are times when 'that's just the way it is'.

So...want long hair or an earring? No problem. Want a tongue ring? Sorry, no go. Want to pick your own clothes and wear your own style? No problem...within reasonable limits of appropriate, clean and decent. Want to choose what you eat? Not a problem as long as you follow the 2 bite rule and then choose from what is on the table.

To the OP...I almost get the feeling from your responses to other posts that you feel the parenting comments are not necessary and maybe even off topic. The reality is, though, that dealing with picky eaters *is* all about parenting. My *personal opinion* is that children are not naturally picky eaters. That every time a child refuses to eat something, and gets away with it (and it starts in infancy), the parent is sending the unintentional message of 'that's ok'...and it just snowballs from there. No judgment to the parent that does this...they may not consider this a battle that's important to them, just as I don't consider the battle over hair to be important.

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To the OP...I almost get the feeling from your responses to other posts that you feel the parenting comments are not necessary and maybe even off topic. The reality is, though, that dealing with picky eaters *is* all about parenting. My *personal opinion* is that children are not naturally picky eaters. That every time a child refuses to eat something, and gets away with it (and it starts in infancy), the parent is sending the unintentional message of 'that's ok'...and it just snowballs from there. No judgment to the parent that does this...they may not consider this a battle that's important to them, just as I don't consider the battle over hair to be important.

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Quite honestly, I was very confused by your interpretation of my responses. I'm not upset at all, don't get me wrong, but I never said that parenting comments are not necessary. Not even once, because I don't feel that way at all. In fact, parenting comments were what I welcomed with the most frequency--tried and tested advice. There are several commenters who shared their own parenting advice, about children they have, and I think they've been very helpful, as I said to them.

Maybe you got this sense from the fact that I'm also welcoming people who aren't parents to speak about their own philosophies? I emphasized that a few times because I want to make sure that they know that, while this thread will obviously attract parents, non-parents are more than welcome to share their input too. I don't want to just focus on what is right or on those with practical experience implementing these issues. Everyone has ideas about how they will parent when they are older or if they ever had the opportunity to have a child, and I think it's interesting to hear what they think on the issue. Even if their ideas change drastically when they actually do have children, most people's approaches are coming from a certain philosophy (e.g. childen should have autonomy over their own bodies, parents should assume authority in everyday matters, there are or aren't such temperaments as naturally picky eaters). Anyhow, this is still soliciting parenting advice because I'm saying: "For those who don't yet or couldn't have children, what would you want to do if you were a parent or what do you do when approaching the topic with younger siblings etc.?" But, these questions always came after the ones asking current parents. So, again, I'm a little confused with your reading of my posts.

The only times that I've had a disagreement about parenting, here, is when others have implied or worried that this thread is trying to tell parents how to feed their children. And what I've always answered is that I want all bandsters (from various experiences, lifestyles, and ages), whether they are parents or not, to share their own philosophy that underlies their approach to this aspect of parenting, to share some of the approaches they take daily or would take if they had kids, and to tell us why they find this philosophy and approach ethical or effective. They don't have to speak on all such topics, or they can bring up new but relevant subtopics of their own. So, actually, my questions are all about parenting, and they've always been constructed with the intention of soliciting answers from parents and non-parents.

Children should NEVER be forced to eat something!

Children should NEVER be forced to eat something!

I agree with you 150%. It could lead to all sorts of other problems.

Children should NEVER be forced to eat something!

I'm almost sure you didn't mean this to come across as judgmentally as it does because it would be a bit arrogant to believe we each have the only one true correct way to parent, yes?

I never forced my children to eat anything, but they did have a choice to either eat the 2 bites before refusing...or leave the table. As I told my son, *nobody* can force you to do anything. You always have a choice. You may not like the choices...but you do have a choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says, "shoot that person or I'm going to kill you", the choice is still yours...lousy choice, but still a choice.

When I gave my children the choice to either eat the obligatory 2 bites or leave the table, it was not to teach them who was the boss. It was to teach them that it was illogical to refuse something because you *think* you won't like it and, since our tastes change, until you try it each time, you'll never know whether you do or don't like it. My oldest son turned up his nose at liver for years. At some point, while still a child, he discovered he actually liked it. My middle son hated vegetables...any kind of vegetables. At some point he discovered they were pretty good.

This wasn't just a lesson about food, though. It was also a lesson in thinking logically and reasonably...that can be applied to every other aspect of their life.

I'm almost sure you didn't mean this to come across as judgmentally as it does because it would be a bit arrogant to believe we each have the only one true correct way to parent, yes?

I never forced my children to eat anything, but they did have a choice to either eat the 2 bites before refusing...or leave the table. As I told my son, *nobody* can force you to do anything. You always have a choice. You may not like the choices...but you do have a choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says, "shoot that person or I'm going to kill you", the choice is still yours...lousy choice, but still a choice.

When I gave my children the choice to either eat the obligatory 2 bites or leave the table, it was not to teach them who was the boss. It was to teach them that it was illogical to refuse something because you *think* you won't like it and, since our tastes change, until you try it each time, you'll never know whether you do or don't like it. My oldest son turned up his nose at liver for years. At some point, while still a child, he discovered he actually liked it. My middle son hated vegetables...any kind of vegetables. At some point he discovered they were pretty good.

This wasn't just a lesson about food, though. It was also a lesson in thinking logically and reasonably...that can be applied to every other aspect of their life.

You guys are really making some excellent points. As I'm reading all of your strategies, I'm also considering which ones I'd be most likely to implement when I finally have kids. As it is, I'm more open to either repeated encouragement (in a positive tone) or to requiring my future children to take a bite of a new food before they refuse it. Of course, I'd have to consider what my consequence would be if they did refuse even that bite (highly likely with many kids). In that case, I'd probably withhold a favoured alternative meal until they try the new food. Anyway, I'm still leaning to the "encouragement-only," surrounding them with good foods, and setting a positive example route, just as my mother did (it worked really well with all three of her kids, even the picky eater). But, I really never know until I have kids myself. One thing I will definitely not do is to physically put food in their mouths or offer comparatively unhealthy alternatives. I wouldn't have soda and white bread in my house. I'd have to find a spouse who feels the same way.

One thing about the "one-bite" rule: many people have said that they use some variety of this rule in their house. As I said, I rather like the rule and I think it would be effective. However, it got me thinking about cases where I would not want to pressure a child into taking one bite of a new food. I'm a vegetarian and I would be very upset if I had been either forced to take one bite of meat, or given the choice to take a bite of meat or miss a meal. Some may be thinking: "Oh, boo-hoo! Suck it up, ya tree-hugger!"

But, imagine if you were the child and the one bite was cat-meat. The situation is significantly worse if you had no choice but to eat it, but let's go with the gentler "one-bite" rule, where you'd have to eat it or miss a meal. Of course, now you could just choose the option of skipping out on that meal, but what if you were really hungry? I'm not sure how fair it would be to have to go to bed hungry because of your deeply-felt philosophical objection to cat-meat. Also, if you were a vegetarian, you'd be faced with the "cat-meat" dilemma at almost every meal (probably every dinner and lunch).

My questions are: do you (or would you, when/if you have children) ever make exceptions to the one-bite rule? If so, in what kinds of cases? If you have multiple children, would you give the one (let's say, vegetarian) child the alternative but the other(s) the one-bite rule?

Anyway, I think the one-bite rule is still justified in cases of vegetables, or meat where the child is a meat-eater but just doesn't want to try it in a new form.

Thanks for contributing your input, guys!

My questions are: do you (or would you, when/if you have children) ever make exceptions to the one-bite rule? If so, in what kinds of cases? If you have multiple children, would you give the one (let's say, vegetarian) child the alternative but the other(s) the one-bite rule?

Absolutely. Reasonable doesn't just apply to children. If one of my children decided they wanted to be a vegetarian (or even try to be), it would be unreasonable for me to refuse to let them if they could intelligibly discuss their reasons.

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I'd never want to say there's one right way of parenting, its such a volatile area and its just not true anyway. Different things work for different families and different children and you have to find your own groove. I'm personally a little uneasy with sticker charts and other rewards when it comes to food, it strikes me as a little too close to "oh, hurt your knee? Here, have a cookie to make it better". Perhaps I need one for myself though, lol. Chemo has affected my taste buds. At the moment my entire diet revolves around vegemite on rice cakes, tomato soup, toasted ham cheese and pineapple sandwiches and very cold salad vegies and fruit. Maybe if I eat some steak I can have those true religion jeans I want? I already got a diamond ring, a new car and a new kittencourtesy of a very doting DH, lol, and I didnt even have to eat anything to get those!

When my 30 year old son was an infant he ate all the vegetables you gave him. As he got older he developed his own opinion and maybe did not like some foods because of the way it looked or smelled or the texture. I try to get him to eat all the right things but he refused and I was not going to punish him for not wanting to eat a particular food, Food is not something I thought should be a punishable offense.

As he aged he has learn to eat many vegetables and fruits that he would not touch at our house. I think food is a personal thing and no child should be sent to bed with out a meal because he does not like a certain food. I sat at the table for hours as a kid waiting for my mother to give in and let me up as I was never going to eat the liver or whatever vegetable it was she was serving that night. My son grew up healthy and happy and has not had a weight problem. I on the other hand having had things forced upon me did. I also think you should pick your battles with your children carefully.

Cheri