I hear people say this A LOT, but it never made sense to me. I mostly hear this from fellow dieters who also say: "I always have to be around food that's not healthy for me, but what can I do? I have kids."

If it's not healthy for you, it's not healthy for them! Right? I really just don't know why (some, but truthfully many) people feel that they have to keep these foods in the house for their children. Not only does feeding them the foods that got you to your situation set their habits and tastes for food for life, but they're just plain bad for the health of a small body. I can understand the occasional treat, but consciously feeding things like coca-cola (yes, even diet soda), kool-aid, chicken-nuggets, fries, pop-tarts, and, my god, what passes for "children's Cereal," which consists of powdered sugar on usually white processed wheat, I really don't understand it. Even when parents think they're feeding their kids "healthy" foods, they feed them fruit roll-ups, fishsticks, artificially coloured and flavoured fruit yogurt, and fruit juice that's mostly artificial sugar and Water. Just containing the word "fruit," doesn't make these foods even a close approximation to healthy.

Speaking generally of Western culture (although I love it in most respects much more than my own heritage's culture), I remember from my days in a North American elementary school that food such as these were brought by kids as daily lunches (lunchables, dunkaroos, pizza pops). When I went to my friends' houses, I was often really taken aback by the fact that they ALWAYS had a full supply of pop, ice-cream, pogos, waffles (etc) in the fridge. They always ate fruit-loops or greasy bacon/sausages for Breakfast. They're reaction to vegetables was "ewww!!!" and they learned from an early age that their own parents have to force-feed themselves raw vegetables or load it with thick salad dressing just for the sake of "being good" in their diet. Many children with good metabolisms and high activity actually might not get fat from these items, but these things on a regular basis are horrible for their systems. And eventually, by the time they're 30, their metabolisms fall behind, while their taste in food is set.

Now, obviously, I don't, myself, have a healthy approach to food. I eat too much of good, natural food. And, I spend a lot of the day reading, or sitting in class/the lab/at the computer, so I'm very sedentary. But I'm the only one in my entire extended family who is overweight and still I really love fruits and vegetables, but that's because my mother surrounded me with them and I never saw her have to force herself to eat vegetables, and she ate a wider variety of vegetables than only celery and carrot sticks at that. She never had to load up the fruit and vegetables in our house with Peanut Butter or cheese wiz to make it more "edible" and my brother and I used to argue over which one of us got that last piece of broccoli. The one thing that she could not control was my wacky portion sizes once I started plating food myself. She really tried, and she even tried to kick me out each day to go and play, but these behaviours are much harder to control than consciously bringing bad foods into the house.

I just hear too many times that "my kids just don't like vegetables." Just look at commercials and the way that North American and British adults are told new ways to sneak vegetables into their kids' foods. Look at those V8 commercials. OMG, you mean if I drink this, I don't have to eat any vegetables? Or how about "it tastes like white bread, but it has the nutrition of whole wheat." For god's sake, stripping bread of its natural nutrients, and mixing in artificial supplements doesn't make it healthy! These campaigns work and are sooo ubiquitous precisely because these sentiments exist and are ubiquitous.

It's not true that "childhood" and "liking vegetables" are inherently mutually exclusive concepts. Kids don't like vegetables because they weren't taught to by their parents in a way that was convincing and natural. Kids are perceptive and they are watching you. They see how you react to and speak about fries, and how you react to and speak about brussel sprouts.

I know, I know--I'm blabbering on with this rant (but no one made you read this far. You're probably just a masochist ). And, I know that some people are going to take great offense to this. That's fine. I expect it and it won't hurt me if you do. But, just so that you understand my intentions, I should say that I really don't mean this to be offensive. First, if it doesn't apply to you, there's no reason to take personal offense. Second, if it does, I'm sure that you can understand that this is done out of a genuine concern for a very grave problem. I just really would like people, if this applies to them, to reconsider this too common mentality that exists in some Western countries.

It's a vicious cycle and I know that many overweight adults have difficulties switching to a healthier diet because of a disgust for healthy food that was formed at an early age. For them, there is no appetizing alternative to fat or sugary foods. The wrong associations that you construct in childhood are very difficult to break.

I'm saying that your kids can love vegetables, if you start things right. We all have weaknesses, but we should never consciously pass on our learned weaknesses to our children. And grocery-shopping is a conscious, weekily decision.

Wow, it really feels good to finally say this after all these years! If you don't agree, I welcome your critique of my opinions, but only if you use your indoor voice.

My mother's opinion on how American's make veggies is that they are boring. Take cooked spinach, bleah who would eat that. Add some garlic however and you got something!

My sister has two boys both grew up in a house that was practically vegetarian for many years. One won't eat vegetables.

Actually, my cultural background is Persian and we cook spinach (either fried, steamed, or boiled) with garlic and onion, then we add it into plain yogurt (balkan style) with salt and black pepper. The mix is usually eaten with pita bread as a side dish. It's much more appetizing than serving boiled spinach alone.

There is this other problem about how some Anglo-Saxon cultures serve their vegetables. Sometimes they just steam or boil a plate of carrots and peas (sometimes from frozen) with little flavour or with cheese-wiz. People need to pay attention to texture and flavour, but without resorting to processed fattening cheese products. That's why I think that people should offer a variety of vegetables in different forms. Cook it in with the main meal (e.g. stews or roasts with a bunch of veggies), try different salads (bean and vegetable salad, regular salads) as a side, but not replacement for the main dinner meal.

Again, even at my family's house, where we're crazy about veggies and fruit, my sister was still picky as a child. It is not always the fault of the parent or a negative influence. There are natural variations in temperament. However, this is also a common excuse for some parents that doesn't hold up in the cases where multiple children in the house don't like veggies and fruit, or when even one of the parents has a negative attitude toward veggies and fruit, even if they force themselves to eat them for a diet's sake.

The natually picky-eater "gene" or temperament cannot explain why the vast majority of North American, British, and Australian children have serious distastes for veggies and fruit. It doesn't explain why a majority of their parents feel the same way. Just in the same sense that a thyroid problem doesn't explain the obesity epidemic and the extent to which an individual is overweight.

So, of course, many people either have one child who is a naturally picky-eater or know of a parent with such a child. But, as I said, even picky-eaters will come around later in life if they are raised in a household with positive attitudes toward veggies and fruit, if they aren't ever physically or emotionally forced to eat what they dislike (thereby forming negative associations with those foods), and if they are constantly surrounded by and offered veggies and fruit of various kinds and forms.

I asked my sister if she agreed with my assessment of her, written in the post above, and she did, completely. She doesn't like all veggies and fruit. She is still picky about how they are cooked and served, but she eats fruit and veggies everyday (not for the sake of a diet or health) in the forms that she likes best.

There are many wonderful seasonings out there that can make veggies not taste like veggies. People need to cook them with lots of seasoning if they have kids that wont eat them and then make them at least try it. I dont buy that crap my kid wont try anything new. What? Really? Children will try it if you make them. Just tell them to try it before you decide you dont like it. You make your child not try things new by not making them.

There are many wonderful seasonings out there that can make veggies not taste like veggies. People need to cook them with lots of seasoning if they have kids that wont eat them and then make them at least try it. I dont buy that crap my kid wont try anything new. What? Really? Children will try it if you make them. Just tell them to try it before you decide you dont like it. You make your child not try things new by not making them.

Everyone except fluffy put your flack jackets on!

I'm not selling anything so you don't have to buy it!

Geez How do you " make them try it" !

You make it sound soooo easy. Do you really think the words " at least try it before you decide you don't like it" haven't come out of my mouth for the last year!

Your so full so full of it! I swear! You know on that previous thread, I decided to be the bigger person and I apologized for going off on you. (even though your post was uncalled for) Guess you didn't go back to read that as there was no reply from you.

WHATEVER until you are in my situation or someone like me keep your crap comments to yourself. You are starting to make this personal and don't say your not! Considering you had a problem with me saying I maintained my weight. And now I was the only person to step up and admit my daughter doesn't eat like she should on this thread. And you call it crap!

No response is needed I won't read it if you do. From now on all Fluffy post will be ignored by me. I sick of reading your crap!

why do you think she is attacking you personally. It is just a statement I didnt see her put your name on the thread. Geez people stop taking things to a personal level. You really are pathetic when you think someone is pointing the finger at you personally.

Call me pathetic all you want. She went after me before and i'm not going to put up with it!

As I said yesterday you all really need to stop telling people what and how to post. This is a public forum if you take it personal then shame on you. I do not see anyone's name on here that anyone is refering to. You really need to get off telling people not to say things its their life if you dont like it dont read it

Where do get off telling me what to say or how to respond to something? Did I tell her what to say? No I told her she was full of it. When someone says something mean, stupid or ugly, you're damn right I am going to say something about it! Sometimes I ignore it but not in this case!

Don't run around calling people pathetic.

My mother's opinion on how American's make veggies is that they are boring. Take cooked spinach, bleah who would eat that. Add some garlic however and you got something!

My sister has two boys both grew up in a house that was practically vegetarian for many years. One won't eat vegetables.

My mother always heated up sliced beats and put butter on them <blech>. My mother-in-law (french) slices them and serves them cold in a garlic vinagrette. Yummmmmy!

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Ohhhhhhhh wait never mind! I just found out Misty and Fluff are the same person! Geez

I apolofize to everyone on this thread. Except for fluff or her alias Misty.

It's quite apparent from other posts she is one of those people who likes to antagonize others.

And I let her get to me. Like I said before fluff and now her alias Misty will be ignored from now on.

We all have different styles of parenting and can only do what we're comfortable doing. I was raised in a home where children were to be seen and not heard. Our opinion was neither wanted or asked for and God forbid if we should offer it and it differed from the adults. When food was put on the table, we didn't get a choice of whether or not to eat something. It was put before us and we were expected to eat it...even if it meant sitting at that table for hours or (if we were stubborn enough to sit there until bedtime) eat it for our next meal. You learned young to eat at dinner because cold liver wasn't any better for Breakfast.

My children were raised in a home where respect and courtesy to *all* (not just adults) was required, but keeping in mind that they were children and there were just some things they had to do whether they liked it or not. The rule at the dinner table was that they had to take two reasonable bites from each serving dish. After that they could choose to eat whatever they liked *from what was on the table*. My oldest son hated liver so he'd eat his two bites and then load his plates with green Beans. My middle son hated saurkraut and cabbage so he'd just eat more meat and/or mashed potatoes.

If my children had ever refused to take those two bites, the consequences were known ahead of time and enforced and we didn't 'warn'. It was just, "eat or leave the table". Disobedience meant being sent to their rooms...and they went hungry until the next meal. My middle son had a will of Iron and he went to bed hungry several times before he 'got it', but he got it.

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I think it is the right idea to always make healthy food available until a child is ready to try it. They develop their tastes over time. I am against force-feeding a child healthy food but I certainly don't think it is preferable to give choices between items such as chips or veggies as an option.

I have a really picky toddler at home and she rarely eats. She goes in stages where she loves bananas, then won't touch them, loves blueberries, then won't touch them, loves tomatoes, then won't touch them. All I can do is keep giving her healthy options, and while it is not always successful, she will occasionally try new things. I also tend to over provide those options that she loves and will usually eat (in her case it is yogurt Soup with rice and mint). It is important for me to instill healthy eating patterns for the future.

First or all, I just want to say that I really appreciate this thread. It is an interesting topic that really hits home for me.

Everyone except fluffy put your flack jackets on!

I'm not selling anything so you don't have to buy it!

Geez How do you " make them try it" !

You make it sound soooo easy. Do you really think the words " at least try it before you decide you don't like it" haven't come out of my mouth for the last year!

Your so full so full of it! I swear! You know on that previous thread, I decided to be the bigger person and I apologized for going off on you. (even though your post was uncalled for) Guess you didn't go back to read that as there was no reply from you.

WHATEVER until you are in my situation or someone like me keep your crap comments to yourself. You are starting to make this personal and don't say your not! Considering you had a problem with me saying I maintained my weight. And now I was the only person to step up and admit my daughter doesn't eat like she should on this thread. And you call it crap!

No response is needed I won't read it if you do. From now on all Fluffy post will be ignored by me. I sick of reading your crap!

This is a public forum. The last thing that most of us want to read about our personal attacks on other people. I did not come here for this and there is no reason to ruin a perfectly good thread in this manner. Please have a little courtesy for the majority of us reading this thread that don't care about personal insults being thrown at others. PM's are there for a reason . . . please have a little decency for the rest of us and use them.

First or all, I just want to say that I really appreciate this thread. It is an interesting topic that really hits home for me.

This is a public forum. The last thing that most of us want to read about our personal attacks on other people. I did not come here for this and there is no reason to ruin a perfectly good thread in this manner. Please have a little courtesy for the majority of us reading this thread that don't care about personal insults being thrown at others. PM's are there for a reason . . . please have a little decency for the rest of us and use them.

Did you catch my later post? I got caught up in her crap and apologized to the thread.