How do you feel about "born-agains"?

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, I dont think Jesus will be mad if you pray to his mother. You make it sound so evil, shame on you Patty Green!!!

Jesus is very patient with us humans. He knows that some just haven't read his bible and know that praying to those who have died before us is not acceptable by Him. So, when they do it, He doesn't get mad, He is probably more hurt or disappointed that they don't take the time to read His words to us and learn all they can about Him.

[pattygreen 5]

Phillistine. It was "duped" not "stupid" stupid. Pity the Rethuglians . . . you couldn't turn a corner let alone a political party. Furthermore it is "farther" not "further" -- cretin.

Now scurry back to the dark corners with the other cockroaches.

:scared2:

"Pride cometh before the fall."

[Cleo's Mom 257]

After a believer dies, his body stays in the ground and his soul goes to a place called Paradise where it awaits the judgement. Many scriptures teach that it is a place of rest or sleep. On the ressurection day, the soul returns to the body and it is ressurected. What do the souls of believers experience in Paradise? God has revealed very little about this, except that it will be a place of enjoyment and comfort and rest in the presence of God, where there is no death or sin or care. It is a place that is “far better” than our life here, where we will be “at home with the Lord.” Whether the souls of those in heaven are able to see what happens on the earth, or in what way time passes, has not been revealed in God’s Word. Therefore definite statements should be avoided. So, as far as whether they are sleeping in God's presence in Paradise, I can not say for certain, but the bible tends to lean that way, so if I were to gesture, it would be that they do. Since many scriptures teach that you can not talk to the dead, or that Jesus is thee only mediator for us, I come to that conclusion.

Even if I am not correct about souls sleeping, it makes no difference. Talking to the dead is strictly forbidden by God in the scriptures. So is having any other mediator but Jesus.

You see? You can't find biblical support for soul sleep but you keep promoting it. If someone else has an opinion for which you say there is no biblical support then their opinion can't be right. Hypocrite.

And my interpretation of Jesus will come again is that after we die he is there for us to take us to heaven. That is his coming again.

And people here on earth ask others to pray for them all the time. They ask their priest, ministers, neighbors for prayers when someone they love is ill, dying, etc.. So your mocking of asking a friend to pray for them is insulting. Asking Mary to pray for us is the same thing. The only difference is you believe her to be dead, and others believe her to be living in heaven with her son.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You werent being attacked any more than you attack Patty Green. I think it was pretty mean to "hope she never returns" from her trip or to these boards, which ever you meant, that was pretty personal! Thats a fact!

Find any post of mine where I attacked someone personally first. Also, find the post where you claim I said PG not return (I didn't post it but take your time looking for it). But I can find the post where I told her to have fun.

So, your facts are fiction.

"Poster having nothing" means poster doesnt share your views so therefore said poster is wrong!(Will-be, your rubbing off on me, ("said poster") and I didnt even take a composition class!

No, posters having nothing means they can't come up with anything to refute the facts I post, so they are reduced to attacking me personally. I usually deal with facts and some opinions. You can disagree with my opinions without attacking me personally. When people do, I correctly conclude that they have nothing left to back their arguement.

Now I dont even understand what the f%$^ I wrote!

The only possible personal attack might have been when I called you a hypocrit, which you where because again it is ok for Obama to change immigration laws allowing illegals here to become legal just because they're here(which you would support)He didn't change any immigration laws. This is what bush wanted, too. Actually Pres. Obama has deported more illegals in his tenure than bush did in 8 years plus he put more guards at border patrol. but its not ok to change zoning laws to not allow a mosque near ground zero!Again, I never said zoning laws couldn't be changed but it would be a tough sell to change them for just the small area of the proposed mosque. Also hypocritical(new point), you agree with law only because its a democrat supporting it, if it where a rep pres(god forbid) your opinion would be 180 deg from what it is now.I have never denied that I am a liberal democrat and support the democratic agenda and viewpoint. So your point makes no sense. Third hyp point, you come off as this "I love everyone and everything" well, I brought out the hate in you! I absolutely don't love everyone and everything. Where do you get this stuff? I am not a big lover of all people. There are too many stupid people and jerks out there. I prefer my own family and small circle of friends. I do support the democratic agenda of helping the least among us. That hardly makes me a "lover of everyone and everything" person. It makes me a person who can see beyond my own comfort zone. Will-be, your right, she bought it hook, line and sinker! Shit, now I feel like fishing, you made it seem easy!

Have fun fishing. Maybe you'll catch a coherent thought. Mean enough???

Edited July 28, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[pattygreen 5]

This thread is entitled "how do I feel about "born agains".

So, I feel compelled to give my testimony about how I became "born again."

I was sitting in my living room, relaxing and smoking my cigarette. I put my 2 sons to bed for the night and thay were asleep. My husband was in the garage drinking his beer and 'tinkering' with his tools. I was all alone and pondering that there must be something more to this life than just this. I noticed an old bible that was given to me by our Priest as a wedding gift, sitting on my stereo across the room. I picked it up and sat back down. I wondered if there was something in there that I should know about. I had never bothered to look before, so I opened randomly to the New Testament book of John, Chapter 3. I began to read the story of a man named Nicodemus:

John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of Water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e] 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

After reading it, I Thought, "What BS! You can't be born twice." I didn't understand what that meant. (being "born again") I closed the book. Then I sat and wondered if God was real or not. I said my first prayer. I said, "God if you're real, then I need to know. I want to quit smoking, but it seems that I am not able to give up this habit as hard as I try to. If you are real, then take this strong desire from me. Then I will know that you are real." I put the bible away and went to bed. The next day, I awoke and never had another cigarette again. It was that easy. I began to have a strong desire to know what else was in the bible. I started at the beginning and read it all the way through in a matter of 3 months time. It was a long read, but I was determined. I read it with a strong belief that all that was said was true and came from my Creator. He began to work in my heart. I was now beginning to understand many mysteries of life. It was then that I understood that the church (Catholic) I was raised in, but not attending, was not one that I could ever go back to, for they taught me many falsehoods as a child. So, I asked some friends and family members about what they believed about God. I was surprised to learn that my sister-in-law and my sister both believed in God, and so did a good friend of mine. We gathered together once a week to read the bible and study it. Others joined over those 2 years of bible study. My mother-in-law joined, too. Then I decided to look for a local church that had a biblical foundation. A church that taught truth from the scriptures, and not lies. I fully understood what it meant to be "born again", now. For I was reborn. I was made new in Christ. My thoughts, my faith, my beliefs, my way of living. Everything had changed. My husband saw the change in me, too. It was for the better. He decided to attend the same church that I was going to, cause my 5 year old asked him to come with us. He asked Jesus to be his Savior during one of the services there and he, too became "born again." He was a new person as well. God took his desire for alcohol away from him. He hasn't drank since then. (26 years ago)

Being "born again" is simply God touching your heart and changing you from the inside out into what He wants you to be. It's acknowledging that God is real and that he exists and becuase you have done that, he does a work within you to change you. Faith grows within you. He gives you wisdom and knowledge from his word and helps you to "see" things for what they really are. First you are born physically, through the womb, and then you can be born spiritually, through the work of the Holy Spirit. Just ask God for it. He will not disappoint you.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Will Be Healthy: I understand your posts. On these boards I sometimes feel like the character Gus, the Texas Ranger, from "Lonesome Dove" who was well read and who spent much of his time going after Mexican horse thieves and who said: "Just once I'd like to shoot at an educated man".

[pattygreen 5]

Will Be Healthy: I understand your posts. On these boards I sometimes feel like the character Gus, the Texas Ranger, from "Lonesome Dove" who was well read and who spent much of his time going after Mexican horse thieves and who said: "Just once I'd like to shoot at an educated man".

Another one:rolleyes:....."Pride cometh before the fall."

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Another one:rolleyes:....."Pride cometh before the fall."

I absolutely am proud of my education for which I worked hard both in terms of studying and paying for. I certainly will NEVER apologize for it. I am also proud of my children's accomplishments for the same reason.

[letterfly 0]

To make it short and sweet. Being born again means you are under the grace of God and have accepted his forgiveness that is offered to everyone. Yes we mess up, some of us a lot, but don't ever think that takes us away from God's grace and forgiveness. He love's and forgives everyone no matter what they do. Even those of us who are born again.

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

I absolutely am proud of my education for which I worked hard both in terms of studying and paying for. I certainly will NEVER apologize for it. I am also proud of my children's accomplishments for the same reason.

CM:

You go girl. There are many things in my life for which I am proud and I have often fallen; the correlation in the passage is where the fault lies. See my next post for more on this.

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

I absolutely am proud of my education for which I worked hard both in terms of studying and paying for. I certainly will NEVER apologize for it. I am also proud of my children's accomplishments for the same reason.

I found an interesting article on this Old Testament "truth":

For the record, I believe that there is a good kind of pride and a bad kind of pride. Many Christians, after reading what some of the verses from the Bible has to say about this toxic quality, try and remove all sense of pride from them and their lives. As a result, they end up reducing a lot of their own natural joy in the Lord.

Webster’s dictionary, and some of the other different Bible dictionaries describe this good kind of pride as follows:

Proper respect for one-self, self-respect

A reasonable or justifiable self-respect

Sense of one’s own dignity and self-worth

Delight or satisfaction in one’s own or another’s achievements

If your child comes home and tells you that he has just received straight A’s on his report card – your first natural and instinctive response will be to want to tell them “how proud” you are of them and what they have just accomplished. If your husband comes home and tells you he has just received a nice promotion and pay raise at work for the good job he has been doing – again, your first natural response will be to want to tell him how proud you are of him and his efforts to try and make a better life for your and your family.

This is the good kind of pride. There is nothing wrong in having this good kind of pride for what your children may be able to accomplish and for what you may accomplish in your own work for the Lord in this lifetime. I believe that God Himself wants you to have this good kind of pride for the blessings and opportunities He may bring your way.

If God has just blessed you with a nice new house, there is nothing wrong in being proud of that house and wanting to take good care of it. If God has blessed you with a wonderful marriage with a beautiful mate and beautiful children, there is nothing wrong in taking pride in all of them and what they may accomplish for the Lord in this life.

This good kind of pride that you may have in the actual work that you are doing for the Lord and with whatever blessings He may want to pass your way in this life all help to contribute to your own personal joy in the Lord. It helps to give you a nice sense of approval, and it also helps to motivate you to want to keep on pressing further on with the Lord in whatever He has called you to do for Him in this life.

However, as with anything else that may start out good – there is always the danger of possible excess. What starts out as a simple and a humble type of pride can start to grow into something much more deadly if a person does not properly keep on top of it.

Pride Will Come Before the Fall - a Biblical Point of View

Let PG spew and selectively eviscerate -- that is her MO. She is secure in her belief and that is wonderful; we should all find that sweet spot. It is when PG judges or imposes her view without concessions to the contrary that make her posts so dreary and predictable.

Many of us see our walk with God as a process not a product, something that changes and grows with time, experience, and understanding. Others find the walk tedious, tenuous, and threatening.

I am comforted by those who are confident enough to remain quiet and offer reassurance and insight rather than pedantry and parsimonious love.

Peace out.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Will_B_Healthy

[pattygreen 5]

Will Be Healthy: I understand your posts. On these boards I sometimes feel like the character Gus, the Texas Ranger, from "Lonesome Dove" who was well read and who spent much of his time going after Mexican horse thieves and who said: "Just once I'd like to shoot at an educated man".

When I said "pride" coming before the fall, I was talking about the fact that you feel you are more intelligent than those you converse with, not your pride in your college degree. Your 'pridefulness' is astounding. There isn't one person who is all knowing, and you are no exception. To brag that you are more intelligent than the rest of us here is truly unbelieveable.

God says that the wisdom of the wise is foolishness in his eyes. So, when you tell me that you are sooo smart because of your education, it tells me how foolish you really are. I went to college as well, and I'm sure many on these boards have also. So, to make such a comment is degrading to the rest of us. But, it certainly is not surprising coming from you.

[pattygreen 5]

I found an interesting article on this Old Testament "truth":

For the record, I believe that there is a good kind of pride and a bad kind of pride. Many Christians, after reading what some of the verses from the Bible has to say about this toxic quality, try and remove all sense of pride from them and their lives. As a result, they end up reducing a lot of their own natural joy in the Lord.

Webster’s dictionary, and some of the other different Bible dictionaries describe this good kind of pride as follows:

Proper respect for one-self, self-respect

A reasonable or justifiable self-respect

Sense of one’s own dignity and self-worth

Delight or satisfaction in one’s own or another’s achievements

If your child comes home and tells you that he has just received straight A’s on his report card – your first natural and instinctive response will be to want to tell them “how proud” you are of them and what they have just accomplished. If your husband comes home and tells you he has just received a nice promotion and pay raise at work for the good job he has been doing – again, your first natural response will be to want to tell him how proud you are of him and his efforts to try and make a better life for your and your family.

This is the good kind of pride. There is nothing wrong in having this good kind of pride for what your children may be able to accomplish and for what you may accomplish in your own work for the Lord in this lifetime. I believe that God Himself wants you to have this good kind of pride for the blessings and opportunities He may bring your way.

If God has just blessed you with a nice new house, there is nothing wrong in being proud of that house and wanting to take good care of it. If God has blessed you with a wonderful marriage with a beautiful mate and beautiful children, there is nothing wrong in taking pride in all of them and what they may accomplish for the Lord in this life.

This good kind of pride that you may have in the actual work that you are doing for the Lord and with whatever blessings He may want to pass your way in this life all help to contribute to your own personal joy in the Lord. It helps to give you a nice sense of approval, and it also helps to motivate you to want to keep on pressing further on with the Lord in whatever He has called you to do for Him in this life.

However, as with anything else that may start out good – there is always the danger of possible excess. What starts out as a simple and a humble type of pride can start to grow into something much more deadly if a person does not properly keep on top of it.

Pride Will Come Before the Fall - a Biblical Point of View

Let PG spew and selectively eviscerate -- that is her MO. She is secure in her belief and that is wonderful; we should all find that sweet spot. It is when PG judges or imposes her view without concessions to the contrary that make her posts so dreary and predictable.

Many of us see our walk with God as a process not a product, something that changes and grows with time, experience, and understanding. Others find the walk tedious, tenuous, and threatening.

I am comforted by those who are confident enough to remain quiet and offer reassurance and insight rather than pedantry and parsimonious love.

Peace out.

I agree with the writer in purple, when he or she speaks of good and bad pride. But, Cleo's was not talking about being proud of her education, which is a good kind of pride. When she posted her feelings about how she felt like Gus, the Texas Ranger, she was telling us that she was more intelligent than the rest of us and "just once would love to talk with someone who had intelligent brains like her on this board." This is a bad kind of pride.

[pattygreen 5]

To make it short and sweet. Being born again means you are under the grace of God and have accepted his forgiveness that is offered to everyone. Yes we mess up, some of us a lot, but don't ever think that takes us away from God's grace and forgiveness. He love's and forgives everyone no matter what they do. Even those of us who are born again.

How true. We all mess up, yet God is there to forgive and forget. To help us change and correct our mistakes. His word teaches us how to do this.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I agree with the writer in purple, when he or she speaks of good and bad pride. But, Cleo's was not talking about being proud of her education, which is a good kind of pride. When she posted her feelings about how she felt like Gus, the Texas Ranger, she was telling us that she was more intelligent than the rest of us and "just once would love to talk with someone who had intelligent brains like her on this board." This is a bad kind of pride.

I am better educated than most american people. That is just a fact. I don't know what the educational level is of those who post here.

What I do know is that when it comes to political debate (which is what I post about) I am much smarter than most of the posters here who often start from a place of hate for ________(fill in the blank) and then go from there.

It isn't hard to spot their posts: The Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't build a mosque 2 blocks from ground zero.

People who receive government aid are lazy and just want cable tv and eating out.

Mexican immigrants are all illegal taking good american jobs away from us.

And the list goes on and on... I post facts and some opinion. And I am proud of my ability to do so. I spend a lot of time listening to and reading about the political landscape and what is going on. If others can't keep up, that's not my problem. But it is frustrating to me.

And you should talk about pride when your arrogance is staggering. You're righteous, your biblical interpretation is the one and only correct one. All of your biblical views are right. The catholic leadership will have to answer to God at judgement day. And if you're not righteous enough (like you) your prayers won't be heard.

Astounding that you could believe all this and then yap about MY pride. :cursing:

Edited July 28, 2010 by Cleo's Mom