First Lady now requires 26 servants

[Cleo's Mom 257]

As Howard Dean has said repeatedly - heathcare reform without the public option is just putting $60 billion/year into the private insurance industry. Why wouldn't they salivate at that? That's sure not what I support or what normal, middle America wants either.

[plain 12]

Unfortunately the Left does have some radicalized factions. The Animal Rights groups that blow up Pharmaceutical companies, the environmentalists that burned down a massive construction site here in SD because of the wood that was being used, etc, etc.

As conscientious thinkers from the Left, I think it is our place to call those idiots out and not give them any credit for the cause that they are trying to move forward. There is no place in our society for that type of hatred within our social and political causes.

Having said that, it is my belief that the radical component of the Left is far over shadowed by it’s brethren on the right. Here is a simple test. Ask 100 people if you think Left Wing radicals are more likely to blow up a building in this country or would you expect that from the Right. I will go out on a limb and say that hands down, people would be more inclined to believe that of the Right.

I think people are blurring the lines here. There is such a thing as a conservative, and there are nutjobs. There are also liberals, and there are nutjobs. Being a member of one group doesn't mandate being in the other. If you think "he's a conservative.....must be violent", or "she's a liberal....must be crazy"....then you're at best simple-minded, and at worst already in nutjob territory.

The problem I had with the speech was even before the speech. He should have championed a Single Payer System based on his overwhelming victory in November and then fallen back to a Public Option as a compromise.

As it stands now, the Public Option is at risk because the Right has been allowed to muck up the issue with Red Herring issues. Now they have the Blue Dogs running scared and America will likely fall even further behind the rest of the industrialized world in terms of Health Care.

As much as I like Obama, I am prepared to sacrifice him for this issue. I think he should spend every ounce of his political capital on getting Health Care thru (with a robust Public Option). Even if doing so costs him the election in 2012, I think the issue is that important for the country.

Mmmmm, here is where we diverge, kartman. I could not disagree more.

I am aware that these groups commit crimes. But how many people died in these acts? The Southern Poverty Law Center has a list from 1995 to only 2003 and it lists 60 terrorist plots by those on the right, many resulting in deaths.

I agree that we have to call out those who choose to commit domestic terrorism but I also believe the facts will back me up that it is the fanatics and extremists on the right who are most likely to take their hatred to the next level - killing.

I live in the city where the 3 police officers were executed in cold blood by one such extreme right wing nut armed to the teeth with assault weapons and a bullet proof vest because he thought Obama was going to take his guns away. My son in law is a police officer. I also live in the city where the man who hated women armed himself with several guns and killed 3 women and wounded 9 others at a local gym. His hatred was against women. But fill in the blank with these extemists.

They hate_____________

-government

-Obama

-blacks

-hispanics

-women

-gays

-Muslims

-immigrants

-non-Christians

Ever occur to you that maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center is a decidedly liberal organization and skewers the numbers? I don't know if they do or not, but I'd consider the possibility before I started down the goofy road of "conservative = hater".

I don’t think it’s off the table either, I can’t think of any reason not to allow it. The Obama’s plan (via the Health Insurance Exchange) opens those doors, but it doesn’t stop there. Interstate competition is one way to increase competition, but the Public Option is another far better solution.

Don’t cry for the Insurance companies, they will be fine even with the Public Option. Their little nugget in this bill is the Insurance Mandate. Do you know what that is? It is a provision that forces everyone (even the healthy 20 something’s) to purchase insurance. This is a boon for the Insurance companies because those people don’t get sick often. I think the Mandate is a great concept (and I'm not opposed to it), but it will be an even greater bonus for the Insurance Companies if they get that without the Public Option. Can you say Free Money?

I still disagree with you about the public option. I would be a little less skeptical if lawmakers tried a "test market" first. Look at Maine and Tennesee....their attempts at universal care increased costs dramatically.

[pattygreen 5]

And I want a jury of my peers to decide my award in a medical malpractice case.

So do I. Whether it should be $10,000. or $250,000. (the cap) Why should any one who has a lawsuit receive 20 million dollars from any suit, and the lawyer gets half or so.

According to your logic, you would want your peers to decide your award, but you want your government officials to decide your health care.

Edited September 15, 2009 by pattygreen

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And I want a jury of my peers to decide my award in a medical malpractice case.

So do I. Whether it should be $10,000. or $250,000. (the cap) Whay should any one who has a lawsuit receive 20 million dollars from any suit, and the lawyer gets half or so.

According to your logic, you would want your peers to decide your award, but you want your government officials to decide your health care.

You want the judicial system to decide your health care? That doesn't make sense. Right now my employer and insurance company decide my healthcare. I want the government to give my employer & me more choices, including a public option. And regulations for the private insurance industry about pre-existing conditions, dropping your insurance when you get sick, etc..

[pattygreen 5]

Laura Bush spent $1.4 million on her staff, Michelle Obama's is $1.6 million. This is just more nit-picking in my view.

These nit picking 'pennies' add up. A little pork here and a little pork there, and you have billions of dollars spent on waste. Do you know how many unemployed families could live for a year on 1.4 million dollars?! Why should Laura or Michelle have servants when the rest of the poeple can't even have cable TV in this economy because it was an unnecessary expense they had to cut so they could pay their taxes or the higher cost of living due to government corruption and wastful spending?! Leave it to a democrat to say it's just a dent in the deficit, why count it?

[pattygreen 5]

Patty,

This is just a sweeping generalization and not even close to being true. I’ve been pretty clear on my views (slightly left leaning, shoot me), and I would never say the opposite of that. In fact, in numerous posts I have condemned the windbags from the Left (mostly on MSNBC) right along with the whackos on the Right (mostly on Fox).

Just like some "sweeping generalizations" about radical "haters" on the far right from some posting here. That's all. No offense to you personally.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Ever occur to you that maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center is a decidedly liberal organization and skewers the numbers? I don't know if they do or not, but I'd consider the possibility before I started down the goofy road of "conservative = hater".

So what if they're liberal? Read the link and you can decide whether they just fabricated the right wing terrorist plots listed.

My point is the extremists on the right (as opposed to the extremists on the left) have been responsible for more terrorism, murders and killing because of their hatred of (see list in my previous post) than those on the left. They are also more likely to be armed to the teeth and listen to the hate spewed on what dominates our air waves that contributes to sending them over the edge and fuels their hatred.

If you can find evidence that the left wing nuts have perpetuated murders, killings and terrorism in our country's history to the extent that the right has, please provide it.

And I never said conservative = haters. I just said the right wing nuts have been more responsible (than left wing nuts) for the hate crimes committed in this country since the days of lynching to now.

[pattygreen 5]

I still disagree with you about the public option. I would be a little less skeptical if lawmakers tried a "test market" first. Look at Maine and Tennesee....their attempts at universal care increased costs dramatically.

.......................................................

And... tort reform in Texas was a real success for that state. (another state as well, but I can't recall which one) Why not copy it for the nation? We've already had the trial period. Make's sense, but NO. Those lawyers washed Obama's hand and paid for him to get elected. He can't turn on them ever. Sickening!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

These nit picking 'pennies' add up. A little pork here and a little pork there, and you have billions of dollars spent on waste. Do you know how many unemployed families could live for a year on 1.4 million dollars?! Why should Laura or Michelle have servants when the rest of the poeple can't even have cable TV in this economy because it was an unnecessary expense they had to cut so they could pay their taxes or the higher cost of living due to government corruption and wastful spending?! Leave it to a democrat to say it's just a dent in the deficit, why count it?

Were you concerned about people without cable when Laura was spending $1.4 billion? No, you only add it as a post script when bashing Michelle. Actually inflation (the cost of living) is down except for the cost of healthcare which is rising much, much faster than wages and is not the result of government corruption but rather the result of insurance greed.

[plain 12]

So what if they're liberal? Read the link and you can decide whether they just fabricated the right wing terrorist plots listed.

My point was the the number of left wing attacks could be under-reported. Also, They could contribute violent attacks to people who's political leanings are uncertain (like the dude that shot up the gym.....how was it decided he was "right wing").

My point is the extremists on the right (as opposed to the extremists on the left) have been responsible for more terrorism, murders and killing because of their hatred of (see list in my previous post) than those on the left. They are also more likely to be armed to the teeth

Shhhh, don't let BJean hear you. She claims to be pro-gun. Is she right-wing?

If you can find evidence that the left wing nuts have perpetuated murders, killings and terrorism in our country's history to the extent that the right has, please provide it.

And if my "proof" were statistics from an ultra-conservative web site would you believe it? That's my point.

Actually inflation (the cost of living) is down except for the cost of healthcare

Are you seriously putting forth that the cost of living is lower now? Maybe compared to Jimmy Carter's administration....

In any case, better enjoy your "cheap" living costs now. With cap and trade legislation looming, this tire / union brou-ha-ha with China threatening to turn into a trade war, and possibly being taxed out the yin-yang to cover a dubious healthcare bill on the horizon, it's likely our cost of living will be rising very quickly.

[pattygreen 5]

Were you concerned about people without cable when Laura was spending $1.4 billion? No, you only add it as a post script when bashing Michelle. Actually inflation (the cost of living) is down except for the cost of healthcare which is rising much, much faster than wages and is not the result of government corruption but rather the result of insurance greed.

Honestly, I wasn't aware that any first ladies in the past had been spending that kind of money on servants. I only recently became interested in politics and the whole scene a few years ago. If I had known that Laura was doing the same, I still would have been appauled, yet I will admit not as much appauled, simply due to the fact that the economic situation that we are in was not as severe or noticable when Laura was in the WH.

The cost of living is down? Where do you live? A month ago I went to the store and bought popcorn at $2.50. Two days ago I went to the same store and it was now doubled in price. That scene is everywhere. I'm not saying everything is doubling, but everything is going up in price.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Honestly, I wasn't aware that any first ladies in the past had been spending that kind of money on servants. I only recently became interested in politics and the whole scene a few years ago. If I had known that Laura was doing the same, I still would have been appauled, yet I will admit not as much appauled, simply due to the fact that the economic situation that we are in was not as severe or noticable when Laura was in the WH.

The cost of living is down? Where do you live? A month ago I went to the store and bought popcorn at $2.50. Two days ago I went to the same store and it was now doubled in price. That scene is everywhere. I'm not saying everything is doubling, but everything is going up in price.

The social security yearly raises are tied to the inflation index and they aren't getting a raise this year because it is too low. Costs for specific things like healthcare and food have gone up, but we are in a recession with a low inflation index. When interest rates are sky high, like under Carter, then we are in full fledge inflation. Interest rates are low now.

But the buying power of the middle class has been severly reduced because wages have not kept pace with the cost of living, mostly due to the rising cost of healthcare.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

[/b]

My point was the the number of left wing attacks could be under-reported. Also, They could contribute violent attacks to people who's political leanings are uncertain (like the dude that shot up the gym.....how was it decided he was "right wing").

I live in the town where this happened. He hated women. That's why he targeted them. Liberals support women and their rights.

Shhhh, don't let BJean hear you. She claims to be pro-gun. Is she right-wing?

Being pro-gun or owning one does not make your a right wing nut bent on domestic terrorism. But those on the right who are extremist bent on violence are more likely to be armed heavily, often with illegal guns and equipment.

And if my "proof" were statistics from an ultra-conservative web site would you believe it? That's my point.

If you can find the proof that in our country's history it has been those on the left who have murdered and killed for their "cause" - dating back to the days of lynchings to the modern day assaults, please provide it. I would be interested - whether it is a group or individual. Those who actually kill.

Are you seriously putting forth that the cost of living is lower now? Maybe compared to Jimmy Carter's administration....

In any case, better enjoy your "cheap" living costs now. With cap and trade legislation looming, this tire / union brou-ha-ha with China threatening to turn into a trade war, and possibly being taxed out the yin-yang to cover a dubious healthcare bill on the horizon, it's likely our cost of living will be rising very quickly.

Industries have been putting out carbon emissions without any penalties. They have been given carte blanche. Now they will have to pay. Or stop. Some of that cost will be passed on to the consumer but we all have to pay for a cleaner earth. It is part of our responsibility for living here.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Most people want a cleaner, greener environment but don't want to take the painful steps to become less dependent on foreign oil or put the money into greener, renewable energy endeavors.

Most people want more and better paying american jobs. But they aren't willing to pay more for products made in America. They would rather pay for cheap chinese imports at Walmart or those goods/services made available by illegal immigrants. Why do you think employers in the US hire illegals? Because they will work for next to nothing and they can't get americans to do so. I'm not saying this is right, it isn't. I'm only saying that Americans won't pay more for these goods/services if those jobs went to americans and paid well.

People do not want to pay more for their healthcare but don't want to support the changes that would help healthcare costs go down.

Most people enjoy and like their social security and medicare but don't want the government in other people's healthcare. It's a case of "I have it, I like it, but I don't want you to have it."

Most people oppose pollution and want a greener earth but don't want to do anything to help it get there or to pay for the programs that would help.

The issues that Pres. Obama is tackling are enormous and some will take decades to see results. But these are issues that past presidents ignored. If we keep doing what we always did, we will keep getting what we always have. We can't sustain that.

I, for one, am glad that he is addressing these problems and as painful as some solutions might be I think it has to be done.

[pattygreen 5]

I watched the news (CNN) last night and witnessed a black man argueing with a white man over what he said was a racial issue concerning the march on Washington last Saturday. I ask: Why do some black people feel that bringing up the race card for every instance of opposition is proper? For one thing, He's not a black man. He's a black AND white man. He is like me and he is like you. The issue of race (when it comes to the president, for I know racism still exists at times) was settled, IMO, when the people in America chose him to be our president. The real issue is what he's been doing since his time as president began. It's also the economy and the fedupness of the people over government corruption and greed and spending. They felt they were going to get some 'change' in the WH by electing Obama on his promises and all they see is more and more of the same. (Outrageous spending!) It's NOT about race. For Pelosi is a white woman, and at the rallies they were chanting to throw her out. There were many other 'white' democrats that they were holding signs up about as well. NO, this is about the government as a whole, no matter what color their skins may be.