First Lady now requires 26 servants

[BJean 16]

patty I believe that YOU are sick of both parties and that some people share that illness.

However many people are very happy with the Democratic party and have very high hopes that Obama can fix some of the horrible things that the Bush administration did to this country. And we have high hopes that problems can be fixed like improvement of our public edcuation system, like environmental protections enhanced, the health care system revamped, our infrastructure repaired and improved, tax incentives for people who do things to help green up America instead of the incentives to those who are simply motivated by greed, and much more.

The Dems that are unhappy, as far as I'm concerned, are those who probably would only have been happy if the Democratic candidate was a male WASP. Who needs 'em!

[pattygreen 5]

Hows come you got that crazy little red box thingy, patty?

It's a notice for me to update, but I can't be bothered.

[pattygreen 5]

patty I believe that YOU are sick of both parties and that some people share that illness.

However many people are very happy with the Democratic party and have very high hopes that Obama can fix some of the horrible things that the Bush administration did to this country. And we have high hopes that problems can be fixed like improvement of our public edcuation system, like environmental protections enhanced, the health care system revamped, our infrastructure repaired and improved, tax incentives for people who do things to help green up America instead of the incentives to those who are simply motivated by greed, and much more.

The Dems that are unhappy, as far as I'm concerned, are those who probably would only have been happy if the Democratic candidate was a male WASP. Who needs 'em!

I don't believe he is any different. His spending sprees have shown me that. And he's not done spending. I haven't seen any CUTS in government spending at all.

[pattygreen 5]

Anyone notice that a gunman killed an abortion protester? He killed an activist in Owosso, Michigan outside of a high school because he didn't like the sign he was carrying of a fetus image. This kind of thing wouldn't make BIG press coverage, after all, it's just one of those 'fanatical' right wingers protesting the killing of babies, and we all want to be allowed to continue to do that in this free country.(rolling my eyes) [You know how it is. Only 'crazy' abortion activists kill doctors and such.]

[pattygreen 5]

Obama's promise that his plan wont cover illegal aliens or abortion is a lie because if those elements aren't hidden in the bill that eventually becomes law they will be added in due course through legislative incrementalism or judicial activism.

He also offered a downsized version of his public option which wouldn't be available till 2013 only because he wants to keep the (lowball) 10 year cost to only $900 billion, But the option also is timed to sweep up the millions of Americans who would lose their insurance once their employers realize it's cheaper to "chip in" an 8% payroll tax than to continue to pay insurance premiums. So much for Americans not losing the coverage they had. Further, by defunding the Medicare Advantage program, he would drive millions of seniors out of private ins. and into Medicare.

He would in the meantime establish a self-sufficient program that would make low cost coverage available to the highest risk people. But that's an oxymoron because the premiums would have to be astronomical to cover the cost. He said," I will make sure that no government beaurocrat or or insurance company will get in between you and your care." Until government's costs are so out of control that it reduces coverage for the elderly, the veterans, the disabled, the poor and eventually everyone else through rationing of care and "end of life" counseling. He knows many other ways exist to reform health care and inject more competition into the market, for there were 35 Republican proposals advancing those ideas in the congressional hopper. He claims he's open to alternatives, but he made abundantly clear Wed. night that he's wedded to his BIG Government solution. It's wishful thinking, but wouldn't he be better to start from scratch with a sensible plan that gets rid of the bankrupting costs and threats to personal liberties and people's health and well being and socialism?

While the average american earns $40,000. a year, the congressman earns $174,000., just 26,000. shy of being "rich", according to Obama. Seniors wont be getting a cost of living increase in SS next year, medical prescription drug premiums are set to go up, part B coverage premiums will rise, and both are deducted from the SS checks. What's ironic is that Congress members received their raises every year, and they come along with many perks and benefits. President Obama himself, Congress and our "civil servants" will also be exemopt from this Obamacare plan. We must demand that every law imposed upon the people must apply with equal force to those who passed it! If it's not good enough for them, then it's not good enough for us (who pay for it)! The liberal tax and spend democrats in Congress are parasites and a disgrace to the heritage of our Founding fathers! Shame on them for their greedy, selfseeking,disgraceful,double dealing, back-stabbing, lying, disgusting ways!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Obama's promise that his plan wont cover illegal aliens or abortion is a lie because if those elements aren't hidden in the bill that eventually becomes law they will be added in due course through legislative incrementalism or judicial activism.

Again, don't let the facts stand in the way:

Get the facts about the stability and security you get from health insurance reform | Health Insurance Reform Reality Check

You are just making assumptions. Nothing to back it up. No proof.

He also offered a downsized version of his public option which wouldn't be available till 2013 only because he wants to keep the (lowball) 10 year cost to only $900 billion, But the option also is timed to sweep up the millions of Americans who would lose their insurance once their employers realize it's cheaper to "chip in" an 8% payroll tax than to continue to pay insurance premiums.

Even if this happens, and again you are taking huge leaps, so what? I support a single payer approach to health insurance anyway. But if an employee would go on a government health option, it might be better and sure would be cheaper and paid for by premiums and the 8% employer payroll tax.

So much for Americans not losing the coverage they had.

If you get your healthcare coverage through your employer you have always been at the mercy of whatever plan your employer offers unless you negotiated a plan via a union contract. Your employer has always had the right to change coverage with different insurance companies.

Further, by defunding the Medicare Advantage program, he would drive millions of seniors out of private ins. and into Medicare.

The Medicare Advantage program is an extremely expensive government funded program that is a huge boon the private insurance company (which is why it was pushed through by republicans). It is like the cadillac of medicare. You are all about reducing government spending - well this is a way to do it.

He would in the meantime establish a self-sufficient program that would make low cost coverage available to the highest risk people. But that's an oxymoron because the premiums would have to be astronomical to cover the cost. He said," I will make sure that no government beaurocrat or or insurance company will get in between you and your care." Until government's costs are so out of control that it reduces coverage for the elderly, the veterans, the disabled, the poor and eventually everyone else through rationing of care and "end of life" counseling.

End of life care is something I know about. My husband died 4 years ago of terminal cancer at age 56. He had insurance. His oncologist kept giving him worthless chemo that wasn't working. Oncologist make huge amounts of money on chemo. You don't think they earn seven figures through office visits, do you? Finally, after the last round of chemo didn't work, the oncologist pushed some bottom of the barrel chemo and we said no. We went to our family doctor about hospice and got several names. We called them and they came and explained everything. I can't begin to tell you how wonderful they were. My husband was allowed to remain at home and receive medication to keep him pain free. There was no rationing of care or death panel then and there won't be under Obama's plan. You or your doctor can initiate the subject. It might be prudent to look at the greed of some doctors who push worthless treatment just to make money. Nothing could have saved my husband at that point, nothing could have extended his life. In fact, when he received whole brain radiation for brain mets, that's when he declined rapidly. I often wonder if that treatment hadn't been given if he might have lived longer. So it wasn't withholding treatment, it was the pushing of treatment that I had a problems with. And unnecessary and worthless treatments drive up insurance costs. I'm all for giving people treatments, tests and care that work or provide palliative care but sometimes it's just a money making deal.

He knows many other ways exist to reform health care and inject more competition into the market, for there were 35 Republican proposals advancing those ideas in the congressional hopper. He claims he's open to alternatives, but he made abundantly clear Wed. night that he's wedded to his BIG Government solution. It's wishful thinking, but wouldn't he be better to start from scratch

This is just a delay tactic. Healthcare reform delayed is healthcare reform denied. And those who oppose it know it.

with a sensible plan that gets rid of the bankrupting costs and threats to personal liberties and people's health and well being and socialism?

While the average american earns $40,000. a year, the congressman earns $174,000., just 26,000. shy of being "rich", according to Obama. Seniors wont be getting a cost of living increase in SS next year,

Because SS increases are tied to cost of living indexes which were too low in 2008. And by the way, no one is forced to take part B medicare. They can choose to just pay for private insurance but they don't because medicare is a better deal and so would medicare for everyone be a better deal. AND MEDICARE IS SOCIALISM!!

medical prescription drug premiums are set to go up, part B coverage premiums will rise, and both are deducted from the SS checks. What's ironic is that Congress members received their raises every year, and they come along with many perks and benefits. President Obama himself, Congress and our "civil servants" will also be exemopt from this Obamacare plan.

See above link.

We must demand that every law imposed upon the people must apply with equal force to those who passed it! If it's not good enough for them, then it's not good enough for us (who pay for it)! The liberal tax and spend democrats in Congress are parasites and a disgrace to the heritage of our Founding fathers! Shame on them for their greedy, selfseeking,disgraceful,double dealing, back-stabbing, lying, disgusting ways!

Shame on the de-regulate (wall street), spend (on war) and tax cuts (to the rich only) republicans.

[thinoneday 445]

It is usually policitics and religion that breaks families and friends apart. . .lets not let this happen to our little site. . . it isn't worth it

[pattygreen 5]

Shame on the de-regulate (wall street), spend (on war) and tax cuts (to the rich only) republicans.

Again, don't let the facts stand in the way:

Get the facts about the stability and security you get from health insurance reform | Health Insurance Reform Reality Check

This is a WH website. If they will lie to us in person, what makes you think they wont post their lies?

[pattygreen 5]

Even if this happens, and again you are taking huge leaps, so what? I support a single payer approach to health insurance anyway. But if an employee would go on a government health option, it might be better and sure would be cheaper and paid for by premiums and the 8% employer payroll tax.

If it 'ends' up being a public option that we don't want, then why be sneaky about it? Tell it like it is. Why doesn't Obama just say: "You can keep your own insurance if you like it, BUT eventually, we will be the only plan surviving so everyone will be on MY plan. I don't care if it takes a little while to get there or if it happens immediately." Why? Bercause he knows WE DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN THE MEDICAL INS. BUSINESS!!!

[pattygreen 5]

This is just a delay tactic. Healthcare reform delayed is healthcare reform denied. And those who oppose it know it.

What's adelay tactic? Starting from scratch or looking into the many proposed republican plans put forth. That's another lie he said the other day. "Noone has given him any other options." BS

[pattygreen 5]

Because SS increases are tied to cost of living indexes which were too low in 2008. And by the way, no one is forced to take part B medicare. They can choose to just pay for private insurance but they don't because medicare is a better deal and so would medicare for everyone be a better deal. AND MEDICARE IS SOCIALISM!!

You just confirmed what I said all along. A government run option will eventually be our ONLY option! Oh, but I thought we would be able to keep our own insurance if we want? (rolling my eyes) See what a lie that is?

[pattygreen 5]

It is usually policitics and religion that breaks families and friends apart. . .lets not let this happen to our little site. . . it isn't worth it

Erykah, When we debate these issues, we don't take what is said personally. We can even go to other forums and be civil and joke with one another once again. Don't worry about it.

BTW, I love how you spell the original name Erica. Is that how you really spell it?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Again, don't let the facts stand in the way:

Get the facts about the stability and security you get from health insurance reform | Health Insurance Reform Reality Check

This is a WH website. If they will lie to us in person, what makes you think they wont post their lies?

You apparently only think the government lies NOW - with a democratic president. I know you don't think our government lied when we had bush & cheney telling us lie after lie about the Iraq war, WMD's, the cost of the war, how our energy policy was developed, who outed Valerie Plame (bush: "I will remove anyone who had a role in this") and on and on.....

I believe Obama and the White House, not its detractors and opponents. When any of us opposed bush's we were called unpatriotic & supporters of terrorism.

Well, I've seen what the opponents of Obama say and shout and they are the Timothy McVeigh's, the KKK (in nicer "hoods"), the white supremicists and the neo-nazis. They all hated/hate the government. As I've said before, this isn't about healthcare, it isn't about spending. It's about hatred of Obama.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Even if this happens, and again you are taking huge leaps, so what? I support a single payer approach to health insurance anyway. But if an employee would go on a government health option, it might be better and sure would be cheaper and paid for by premiums and the 8% employer payroll tax.

If it 'ends' up being a public option that we don't want, then why be sneaky about it? Tell it like it is. Why doesn't Obama just say: "You can keep your own insurance if you like it, BUT eventually, we will be the only plan surviving so everyone will be on MY plan. I don't care if it takes a little while to get there or if it happens immediately." Why? Bercause he knows WE DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN THE MEDICAL INS. BUSINESS!!!

You opponents don't want the government in the medical insurance business? If that is true, then why don't I see any signs or hear any shouts or read any letters that say:

END MEDICARE, END MEDICAID, END VA BENEFITS?

Because those are all government run medical programs (socialism). So to be against the government extending government run health care to all but not against medicare, medicaid and VA benefits smacks of hypocrisy.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Cleo's Mom
spelling

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Because SS increases are tied to cost of living indexes which were too low in 2008. And by the way, no one is forced to take part B medicare. They can choose to just pay for private insurance but they don't because medicare is a better deal and so would medicare for everyone be a better deal. AND MEDICARE IS SOCIALISM!!

You just confirmed what I said all along. A government run option will eventually be our ONLY option! Oh, but I thought we would be able to keep our own insurance if we want? (rolling my eyes) See what a lie that is?

Most people over 65 accept medicare even though they buy medigap insurance. It is a better deal than staying with private insurance. And if it's a better deal for them, then it can be a better deal for us. And to this I say "so what"? We should be offered the best deal and let the consumers choose and this would be the "reform and regulation" that the private insurance companies need to keep honest. Just like publicly funded colleges and universities compete for students - and both do so nicely. :wink: There's room for both as long as the private insurance keeps premiums competitive, covers everyone, doesn't deny coverage when you get sick, etc.. and quits paying it's CEO's obscene wages.