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Well, I did not make anything 'bold'...

I merely typed and tried posting (only to be shown a 'cannot reach server' message).. I didn't even know the comment was eventually posted.

In any case, It is an advice to people in general not to just you..

I am just tired of people jumping on every research piece that come out as if it is some gospel truth or some hard set principle.

As for the 'demonology' part, it is still a poorly researched field. I will get back to you as soon as there is more data.. [emoji4]

Edited by Middus

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I did modified keto for almost a year before I had surgery. I lost 15 lbs initially then went off it when my father died. I utilized modified keto in the 6 months prior to surgery and lost 30lbs on my own.

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1 hour ago, Middus said:

Well, I did not make anything 'bold'...

I merely typed and tried posting (only to be shown a 'cannot reach server' message).. I didn't even know the comment was eventually posted.

In any case, It is an advice to people in general not to just you..

I am just tired of people jumping on every research piece that come out as if it is some gospel truth or some hard set principle.

As for the 'demonology' part, it is still a poorly researched field. I will get back to you as soon as there is more data.. emoji4.png

Any cursory search of med journals reveals results synonymous to this paper. While there is long term data lacking the same can be said of the VSG itself yet its clear efficacy makes it justified, just like this diet. And reminder: this thread is about the keto diet. I haven't read all posts here but I don't usually see diet fanaticism. My issue is bashing the diet and equating it to pseudo science when there is already real science out there. While there are lazy people who give credence to fad diets of all variety, it makes no difference to the science behind the efficacy of this one when done properly.

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41 minutes ago, PatientEleventyBillion said:

Any cursory search of med journals reveals results synonymous to this paper. While there is long term data lacking the same can be said of the VSG itself yet its clear efficacy makes it justified, just like this diet. And reminder: this thread is about the keto diet. I haven't read all posts here but I don't usually see diet fanaticism. My issue is bashing the diet and equating it to pseudo science when there is already real science out there. While there are lazy people who give credence to fad diets of all variety, it makes no difference to the science behind the efficacy of this one when done properly.

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

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On 4/12/2017 at 3:23 AM, Christina.Rose said:

Is Keto basically a new age name for the Atkins diet? It sounds awfully familiar, high fat low carb, body in ketosis.....


Nope.

Although Atkins was close to Keto. The original Atkins diet by Dr Atkins, the diet has been really bastardized since his death. All those trash products they sell in the store are pretty against his teaching.

Keto has a lot of science and studies to back it up.

I feel like if people can't process or understand the science of running the body on fat they shouldn't even bother. I see so many people making bad choices on Facebook etc and they don't understand the science. If you understand the science it is so easy to make the right choices.

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45 minutes ago, Middus said:

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

The data used in the link I provided does provide as much data as is available. It's why I cited it rather than one of the journals where you see the results but no data, or where other people would have to pay for access to see the data. Nothing is perfect, but as pointed out earlier, whatever diet that someone can comply with that is healthy is likely the best for them. For some this is the keto diet. In my case, my pre-operative weight loss was exclusively because of this diet after the misery of the first few weeks attempting a liquid diet drinking carb-laden "Glucerna" which is supposed to be for diabetics, yet was demanded by my RD. What I find more about people on the keto diet is they tend to be more informed about the effects of it. Vastly different than the similar Atkins fad where people had no idea what they were doing, just jumping on a bandwagon because commercials.

Edited by PatientEleventyBillion

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53 minutes ago, Middus said:

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

If you actually ever did any research or read any studies about high fat diets, you would have never even posted the first 2 sentences, because there are numerous studies not to mention several cultures through out the world that have been eating this way for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Which is why I suggest readying a book by scientists and not reading bro science on the internet.

Most of the studies I could link are behind educational walls. I did years of research on this before deciding on it. It isn't just a fad diet or pseudo science which is why I tell people not to even bother if they aren't will to make a life long lifestyle change or it flat out won't work for you.

You can't just Keto for a while stop pounds and go back to pizza. The same way you have to make life long changes for WLS to be effective long term.

I know talking about science here is kind of a non starter since 99.9% of people that post here don't even understand the difference between weight and volume. Science is beyond most people, don't even get me on understanding stats. I know everyone doesn't have a STEM degree but damn.

Edited by OutsideMatchInside

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19 minutes ago, OutsideMatchInside said:

If you actually ever did any research or read any studies about high fat diets, you would have never even posted the first 2 sentences, because there are numerous studies not to mention several cultures through out the world that have been eating this way for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Which is why I suggest readying a book by scientists and not reading bro science on the internet.

Most of the studies I could link are behind educational walls. I did years of research on this before deciding on it. It isn't just a fad diet or pseudo science which is why I tell people not to even bother if they aren't will to make a life long lifestyle change or it flat out won't work for you.

You can't just Keto for a while stop pounds and go back to pizza. The same way you have to make life long changes for WLS to be effective long term.

I know talking about science here is kind of a non starter since 99.9% of people that post here don't even understand the difference between weight and volume. Science is beyond most people, don't even get me on understanding stats. I know everyone doesn't have a STEM degree but damn.

Easy with the high horse. Some of us currently hide behind said academic walls with dubiously obtained doctorates in Epidemiology. I suppose that in 'T.A-ing' 2 nutritional Epi courses, I must have passed along tons of 'crappy science' to students right? That's irrelevant to this topic anyway.

I don't know why you're going on about Keto not being a fad, as if I said so somewhere. I just repeated what some studies said. On another post when I mentioned contrary study findings, you deemed them to be wrong, because they didn't agree with your "undoubtedly lengthy, and peer reviewed" research.

oh well, I have said my piece.. moving on....

Edited by Middus

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On 4/12/2017 at 4:02 AM, Afrikanaaa said:

With Keto and sleeve do you monitor more of your calorie count or focus more on fat & protein/g consumption? Because in reading the Reddit thread, people don't have restrictive stomachs like we do

Most people that long term Keto are calories aware, even if they aren't strict even with non restrictive stomach. Long term successful people fast also, which I do. A high fat diet makes it easy to fast (the original purpose of bulletproof coffee, to extend a fast). Fasting has its own benefits and I'm not even going to go too far into that

First it is really important to know your body composition you can calculate your macros correctly. Most people that really Keto track (I notice anyone that is successful at any kind of way of eating or diet tracks). I use a Keto calculator and peg my Protein to my lean mass 1g per 1 pound.

This one is good

https://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/

The math on that one is supposed to be better but I use this one because I like it better because of the loss projection chart.

https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

As a sleever if you are meeting your protein goals, it is going to be almost impossible to get your calories too high just because of the low calorie count of protein, the density of protein and restriction. If I didn't use heavy cream in my coffee, I would never hit my fat goals. 120 grams of protein a day doesn't leave much room for anything else.

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OutsideMatchInside I think pinned it down with talking about people's body composition. I rarely find people suggest that everyone benefits equally or everyone should do this diet, because everyones tolerance, discipline, comorbidities, genetics, etc. are not the same.

But that isn't the issue, the issue is suggesting the keto diet has no scientific basis, which is 100% wrong.

Edited by PatientEleventyBillion

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Well, I am not a scientist on this at all but...here is a little bit of our humans going on the Atkins DIET. There were 4 of us. My self, my hubby , my sister in law and my brother in law. We decided that we would go on the ATKINS. I was a little sceptical because in my pasdt I had done everything out there pretty much!! So those three lost weight like crazy!! Not me!! I never cheated one time where hubby had it seemed around every cornor he was cheating a little bit here and there. I NEVER lost 1#. It just goes to say that some do and some don't. I have been guilty of jumping on ones that people were talking about losing so much weight. I ended up having WLS. To get it off and so farkept it off for over 3 years. My hubby finally had his Sleeve last June in Juarez, Mexico. For us this is what has worked and keeps working. Sorry that zi took this post to a whole other round. I hope you all have a wonderful day!! And remember to: KEEP ON KEEPING ON!!!

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@Sherrie Scharbrough

This book

http://www.4yourtype.com/eat-right-for-your-type-book/

Helped me a lot. I don't eat the way I should for my blood type because the meats suggested are expensive and boring. The one thing I did take away from that book was my body does not react the same way to exercise as other people. It triggers stress in me and I don't lose weight. This book along with Dr. Matthew Weiner changed how I thought about exercise and I get amazing results with very low stress exercise like yoga and walking.

There are so many components to weight loss and how our bodies work. Just like having WLS success is partially based on genetic disposition.

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@OutsideMatchInside

Can you elaborate a little more on your last sentence please about genetic disposition?

Thank you

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Nope.
Although Atkins was close to Keto. The original Atkins diet by Dr Atkins, the diet has been really bastardized since his death. All those trash products they sell in the store are pretty against his teaching.
Keto has a lot of science and studies to back it up.
I feel like if people can't process or understand the science of running the body on fat they shouldn't even bother. I see so many people making bad choices on Facebook etc and they don't understand the science. If you understand the science it is so easy to make the right choices.

Ok, if you take out the modern Atkins premade foods etc, is the concept the same as the original Atkins diet? It sounds like phase one of the Atkins diet, like permanently though. I don't really intend on doing either....though back in the day I did do Atkins and lost 20lbs when I only needed to lose 30lbs total....ahhh to be young again.....I personally would go crazy if I had to stick to a super restrictive diet forever however I am planning on keeping my carbs in check.



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