Please Read: Keep BariatricPal a Safe Place

[CowgirlJane 14,261]

And it's possible that some of us "Old experienced people" need support too. My personal experience is that maintenance became more difficult at 3 plus years post op. It's hard to imagine (well it was for me anyway!) that I would be so hungry and need to eat so little years down the road.

Anecdotally, I have seen many come back after regain, and there are some who use this support as a way to stay focused even as time goes on.... That is what I try to do.

Of course, not everyone was high BMI and spent many years overweight or obese like I did so I wouldn't presume that everyone seeks support long term.

We have those who think there are some mean people here, those who think we have a bunch of whiners and complainers, those who apparently think they are the great bariatric enforcers, and those who follow either crowd just to find some acceptance and validation.

Am I the only one that finished Jr High many many years ago?

I think there's a lot of folks who need to get a grip, realize that this is an internet forum, and concentrate more on actual reality rather than cyber space.

BP can be a valuable place for some people. Some have valid questions and valid replies to questions. Others want validation of their choices. Some want to carry a big stick and act like they must know everything.

My final thought is this - WLS is about health, weight loss, and the emotional journey that is equally as important as the weight loss. There are many people here that need to concentrate on that last part because the constant carrying on indicates that the pounds may have dropped off but the emotional state is still a wreck.

This.

IMO a lot of the "old, experienced ones" don't leave because this is such an awful place for them but because they don't feel the need to be here. Just guessing of course, but almost everything feels just old in the end and this includes hanging around online boards.

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@summerset - yep at some point I'll forget I'm sleeved and leave

@@sharonintx - "great bariatric enforcers" - I Iike this term BTW...I think it might make a great t-shirt GBE. That might get a good conversation going, esp with a before and after pic on the shirt.

But I am not too worried about this site. There are two groups of people who seem to be successful...those who jumped through all the third party payers hoops, and those who self paid...it was a struggle to get the surgery but they soldiered on. And there are those who whine and feel like they have to because of family or some other outside pressure. (Strangely, I can usually quickly figure out where they are on the spectrum, and will respond as I think I seem them).

I'll keep poking around until my memories of starting off on this journey start to fade and seem irrelevant.

[Alex Brecher 10,516]

@@smg,

Thanks for the great points. I absolutely don't want to quash debate and honesty. I do, however, believe there are some different possible ways to respond, and some are more appropriate than others. Using your example, I believe these are inappropriate responses on this forum:

"If you're even asking this question, you clearly haven't done your homework." Or, "You will fail if you eat a few French fries."

I believe these are some more appropriate responses.

"Check with your surgeon and/or nutritionist." Or,

"I personally cannot eat those things because I find myself eating too much of them and they also trigger cravings, so I go off my diet." Or,

"They're definitely not the best source of nutrients, but some WLS patients are able to fit small amounts into their meal plans while hitting their daily Protein and calorie goals." Or,

"Be careful, because you may find that you can't tolerate these foods or that you can't limit your portion sizes once you start eating."

@@CowgirlJane,

These are great questions. My hope would be that you feel comfortable requesting information from whomever you like. I would also hope that if someone else happens to post in that same thread and you are not interested in what they have to say, that you would ignore them rather than "call them out" on it.

[smg 471]

@@Alex Brecher

I do understand what you're saying, and it should be expected that users are treated with a basic level of respect as your rules state, and I don't disagree that your examples of what you consider appropriate are much more informative than your examples of what you consider inappropriate, and I never challenged that.

My points were more aimed at those who solicit responses from members, only to get offended when some of those responses may not concur with they 'want' or were 'expecting' to hear. While "You will fail if you eat a few french fries" may not be the most productive or informative response, obviously, but that's not the type of response I was talking about, and I don't think it's the type of response some of the veterans were speaking about either.

The response I was talking about was to the people who get offended when the responses they receive are not necessarily the responses they want. It's at that point that things typically get heated and "go off the rails" and trail away from the original topics.

Regardless, I think we're on the same page here and I just wanted to voice my "fear" as there are many people who read the forum and don't necessarily post or actively participate in the discussions. Ironically, it's that group that could be most effected by a lack of responses because members are second-guessing their responses or simply don't want to respond for fear that it will conjure up some manufactured giant ball of drama that becomes nothing more than a waste of time.

Sure, some responses can be quite "short-and-to-the-point" but sometimes, if a situation calls for "tough love" then "tough love" might just be the best way to handle the situation. I realize it's not your intention, nor in your best interest, to scare off the vets on here as they are the fountain of information that draws new members to the forum in the first place. Having said that, I can clearly see that it is happening, intended or not, so you may need to address that at some point, if you haven't done so already. If it were just a few I wouldn't be concerned, but I have noticed quite a few names missing from the posts over the past few days that are typically a staple in the threads on the site and that's worrisome to me as I rely a lot of the information that vets have to offer as I'm sure many (read=most) members here do.

Hopefully it will all work itself out and we can keep this wonderful community strong and helpful like it has been for so many of us!

[BayougirlMrsS 3,938]

@@Alex Brecher. Being a "vet" so to speak. I have been on both sides. I have been the attacker and the attacked. But, I now pull up my cute vs thongs and move on. LOL!!! People needs to learn to do that. Pull them up people. It's a internet social site not preschool. Some just have thinner skin then others, if your a thin skinned person, thicken it up or find a new place to play. I know when I have offered, I sent a pm apologizing. I enjoy coming here talking to friends, and hopefully helping some.

If you think Alex's comment was directed at you..... Probably was.... Shoe fits, wear it..

But in the end Alex.... This is your site and you can do and say what you think is best. Personally I would send the "offenders" a pm advising them of wrong doings and if it continues, delete them..... Problem solved.

[chycky 671]

I would only add that I would hope "wrongdoers" includes those who flip out about bullying when you tell them not to eat pop rocks and coke post-op.....with a straw

[CowgirlJane 14,261]

To the best of my knowledge I do not have a history of "calling out" people in an unkind way. It is also clear to me that people new to the process TEND to be a bit more vulnerable (frightened, unsure etc) and I try to keep that in mind when interpting posts. I actually don't even know why these posts keep getting started, telling all us vets to behave so I guess my points are not relevant.

[B-52 7,113]

I learned a long time ago, when it comes to responding to posts or giving any advice on WLS, all I can ever truthfully do is give my own experiences within a certain area....if I have no experience, then I have nothing to say.

I had the Lap Band procedure...I don't respond to threads concerning other procedures...How can I?

I haver no earthly idea who the people on this forum are, their personalities, medical conditions, mental and emotional state.

Nor do people know me....

So don't take anything I say as Gospel, but with a grain of salt, and remember what I say is only what I do or have done, and that does not make it right.

If you don't agree with I say or do, that's fine...I never expect it.

But it's also no reason to throw stones...

Listen to what everyone says, then draw your own conclusions, and pass it by your Dr.

If there is one pet-peeve I have about this forum, is when people will take the authority and proclaim "Thou shall not do BLah Blah Blah.."

If you do you will never be successful, you will surely fail.

If they started their proclamation with "this is my opinion" or "This is what I was taught" then that lightens it up a bit.

When I read one of these threads, I want so bad to jump in and say "I do that all the time...daily...and I consider myself one of the most successful people on this forum" !!!!

But I don't, at least not until counting to 100.

Every "opinion" has a "Alter Opinion"

That's what makes it interesting.

[Amurillo04 109]

Honestly it must be so hard to moderate a forum. I've seen both sides of the story, One of the first post I've seen was someone attacking a person for trying to cheer them up by saying "oh don't be down" and then rants about how fat people are allowed to be sad too. I've also seen generally "abrasive" vets on the forum who clearly have a bit of a superiority issue. Unfortunately when you have a forum on the internet these people clash and there's not much that @@Alex Brecher can do besides try to keep them peace on both sides and I think that he's doing a pretty good job with that without being biased towards anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

Edited August 4, 2016 by Amurillo04

[sleevedinseptember 69]

I don't post frequently but find this discussion important and interesting. No one likes being told to behave better - not little children, not adults. And yet there has been cause for this reminder to be shared. @@HopeandAgony described her own particular nature and approach and I am very much similar. I do not understand or appreciate snark - perhaps because of my cultural background and my own sensitivity. I am not able to grasp the tone of it. As such I have found it helpful to read posts or responses from posters who have that type of approach with a personal filter where I work hard not to be affected. That's work that I do and it works for me.

There is a difference between tough love and brutality. Delivery is part of it. Words are the other. I have met a lot of people in real life who think they are "just giving tough love" but really they are just being brutal and hiding behind that line. Yes, no one should have to hand hold or coddle but beginning from a place of empathy and modulating tone accordingly. Doesn't mean kiss any one's behind - just expressing ideas/opinions with a softer approach than a hammer.

I personally disagree with the notion that since this forum is part of the Internet everyone should just pull their big girl/big guy pants up and deal. I find that that kind of thinking leads to poisoned and toxic comments sections everywhere across the Internet and while we might think that no one should be affected by a random stranger on the Internet that they don't know, people are affected. And sometimes they are badly affected. I personally don't think just toughening up is the solution. I think we as grown humans can think and agree to be cordial and civil to each to each other in order to truly facilitate exchange, learning and information sharing.

The "don't read the comments" sentiment to me is not helpful and ignores behavior that is part of a spectrum of bullying and abuse. I am not saying mean comments are bullying - only that they can create a similarly destructive environment and serve to continue the disconnection and isolation that a lot of humanity experiences.

I believe that every person has strengths and value that they can share. It would be a shame to lose that or never be exposed to it because people felt driven away or shutdown .

Sent from my iPad using the BariatricPal App

[Wolfgirl78 266]

Bacon, pizza, popcorn and Coke Zero for all!

Sent from my iPad using the BariatricPal App

[Hiraeth 515]

I started the BariatricPal forums to create a safe place for everyone in the weight loss surgery community. It is for pre-op and post-op patients, for patients of all types of WLS, and for anyone who supports the WLS community. I want you to be able to come here for advice, encouragement, support, and information without worrying about being judged.

I have a zero-tolerance policy for rudeness, and you can see the guidelines in the Forum Rules.

Recently, there have been several instances of members being disrespectful or downright rude. Examples include:

• Stating or implying that a poster is doomed to failure or not ready for WLS because he or she asked a certain question or is engaged in a certain behavior.
• Telling people that your way is the only way, and any other way means the member deserves WLS failure.
• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

The vast majority of BariatricPal members do a phenomenal job making BariatricPal the warm, friendly community that I dreamed of when I started it. Thank you! Besides being sure to be polite and respectful, here are some additional ways to help.

If you see an offensive post, please consider the following.

• You do not need to respond. Instead of giving a rude answer and escalating the situation, you can simply choose not to answer.
• You can report the post by clicking on the “Report” option under the post. A forum moderator will look into the situation and may delete the post or ban the member if the member continues to post inappropriately.
• You can send the member a private message explaining that you felt the post was inappropriate, and explaining why. In many cases, you may be surprised that the member did not even realize he or she was being rude.

Please also think twice before you respond to any questions or other posts. It is possible that you could write a post that is genuinely meant to be helpful, but the person could accidentally interpret your post the wrong way. Try to remember that:

• It is very difficult to communicate a specific tone in writing. You may write something that you think is helpful and understanding, while someone reading it might take it as bossy or judgmental.
• Emoticons such as smiley faces can help.
• You can also add a sentence to explain that you are only offering a suggestion or sharing your own experience and that you are not trying to judge the OP.
• The OP might be in a vulnerable situation. They may be panicking about a worrisome symptom. They may be in turmoil about whether to get WLS. They may be freaking out about a stall. When they’re upset, it’s easier for them to misinterpret your well-meaning post.

Thank you for doing your best to keep the environment at BariatricPal positive, encouraging, and open. We all need a place to go for help and support, and I want the entire weight loss surgery to feel comfortable using BariatricPal for advice and encouragement.

I love this! Thank you for keeping the forums fun and safe!

[summerset 5,265]

If they started their proclamation with "this is my opinion" or "This is what I was taught" then that lightens it up a bit.

When I read one of these threads, I want so bad to jump in and say "I do that all the time...daily...and I consider myself one of the most successful people on this forum" !!!!

Now I'm interested in what naughty things you might be doing daily.

[beachwalker4rny 95]

Recently, there have been several instances of members being disrespectful or downright rude. Examples include:

• Stating or implying that a poster is doomed to failure or not ready for WLS because he or she asked a certain question or is engaged in a certain behavior.
• Telling people that your way is the only way, and any other way means the member deserves WLS failure.
• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

So asking for advice from veteran's who have gone before and know how to handle situations from experience is now considered disrespectful and rude? I recently asked for advice from veteran's on how to handle a work happy hour I was invited too. Not sure how that is disrespectful and/or rude. I feel like I am in limbo here now. I'm not a newbie and not far enough along to participate in the veteran's forum. Very frustrating!

Edited August 6, 2016 by beachwalker4rny

[Alex Brecher 10,516]

Recently, there have been several instances of members being disrespectful or downright rude. Examples include:

• Stating or implying that a poster is doomed to failure or not ready for WLS because he or she asked a certain question or is engaged in a certain behavior.
• Telling people that your way is the only way, and any other way means the member deserves WLS failure.
• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

So asking for advice from veteran's who have gone before and know how to handle situations from experience is now considered disrespectful and rude? I recently asked for advice from veteran's on how to handle a work happy hour I was invited too. Not sure how that is disrespectful and/or rude. I feel like I am in limbo here now. I'm not a newbie and not far enough along to participate in the veteran's forum. Very frustrating!

"So asking for advice from veteran's who have gone before and know how to handle situations from experience is now considered disrespectful and rude?"

Please read what I wrote again. I never said anything like that whatsoever.