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[Alex Brecher 10,485]

As a clarification,

@@beachwalker4rny,

Thanks for asking! I think it is great to ask veterans for help! They’re the experts in many ways, and I absolutely support a question like the example you gave.

What I would like as well, though, is for all members, including non-veterans, to feel comfortable posting on a thread such as in the example you gave. So, if you were looking for veterans to respond and some newbies also answered, I would expect for you NOT to tell the newbies that they’re not welcome in the conversation.

I hope that makes sense!

[beachwalker4rny 95]

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[NeedaBreak4Me 1,755]

Has anyone noticed that there aren't as many vets around anymore? Or that most of the posts of late are all questions relating to pre op or early post op topics?

Unfortunately it looks like this "newbie versus vet" topics that have been occuring of late have completely changed the dynamics around here.... how unfortunate.

As a newbie AND a vet, there isn't much that interests me on here anymore. The variety of topics have diminished... i can not access the vet forum, yet i am having "groundhog day" topics on the main board....

Its a shame that things have changed so much...

[Christinamo7 4,041]

hang around a bit more, things will settle down and there'll be a whole new batch of vets. Hopefully some of the old ones will miss things around here and wander back.

have you noticed that many of those who spark the issues tend to disappear also?

[KristenLe 5,979]

@ I completely agree! I have also seen a lot of coddling and "don't worry about eating a taco 4 days postop - ignore the " trolls" being mean" type of comments!

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[NeedaBreak4Me 1,755]

Everyone has the right to post... everyone is at a different stage... and people need support and advice in those different stages.

I never agree to posts being rude, mean or plain judgemental.

But this "we need to keep everyone happy" attitude is what is causing the friction.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, as long as the delivery is done with respect and empathy.

Why should i suffer and not get support during my "stage" because of one or two individuals... why should we not be supported because of them?

I have seen newbies be rude, ive seen vets be rude, ive seen people in the middle be rude.

Why not chasitise those actual individuals instead of labelling the whole GROUP?

All the vets i came to rely on for advice are gone, some of the "newer vets" give conflicting or inconsistent advice, the newbies are giving advice to newbies who are also giving advice that is incorrect or inconsistent.

My point is that we need a balance...

We need newbies, we need vets, we need to be grown up adults who can be respectful and kind, but who can give us correct and helpful advice.

I try to be respectful in all my posts i monitor MY tone, MY delivery and try not to be offensive, but i still give my honest opinion.... why can't we all just do that?

I also try not to jump to conculsions, this is the written word, there is no tone... if i feel a post is rude, i will clarify first that this was the intention... most of the time the person was not being rude at all... i just took it that way...

Lets behave with respect, integrity and empathy just like we should as humans and adults and stop this blaming bullsh!t and focus on what is important.... building a healthy body, having a healthy mind and living a long happy healthy life.

Achieving this is made easier with all you guys... so why are we bloody fighting each other!

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I'm not fighting anyone. I'm tired of being called rude, mean, etc. for giving my opinion in a straight forward manner. I don't like being told how I should or should not post. I don't call names, although I'm called names. I don't rally behind people to stir trouble, but there are others that do. I don't throw out the "holier than thou" card while "liking" the name calling posts as some do.

There is one particular "vet" who stalks my profile daily (I have screen shots to prove it if anyone wants proof). Blocking her doesn't stop her from stalking me and I can only imagine it's to look for things to report. It's ridiculous, don't you agree?

I've got better things to think about, and certain people have sucked the fun out of this board. It's a shame because at three years out, I do believe I have something to offer but I also need support.

Hopefully the tide here will change. Until then? Not my circus, not my monkeys.

[summerset 5,261]

As a newbie AND a vet, there isn't much that interests me on here anymore. The variety of topics have diminished...

Maybe that is the reason long term members don't hang around that much anymore? You described why I cut back on activity on many boards/mailing lists/newsgroups over many years - after a while it seems to be always the same stuff people talk about and most of the stuff that is talked about is off topic or diary-like threads. And it doesn't matter what the board is about, in the end there seem to be only a very few long-time members who stay.

[summerset 5,261]

@ I completely agree! I have also seen a lot of coddling and "don't worry about eating a taco 4 days postop - ignore the " trolls" being mean" type of comments!

I really seem to be reading the wrong threads. Where exactly happened something like this?

[summerset 5,261]

All the vets i came to rely on for advice are gone, some of the "newer vets" give conflicting or inconsistent advice, the newbies are giving advice to newbies who are also giving advice that is incorrect or inconsistent.

I have a feeling that this "advice thing" is becoming a pet peeve of mine.

Who exactly decides what is "wrong" or "right" advice anyway? As far I can see there simply is a whole truckload of conflicting advice/rules out there because there is no real standard available on diet, pre-/post-op regimen etc.

Simply compare the rules/advice your own surgical team gave you with any other member who got surgery at a different hospital and you will notice that at least some rules will contradict each other.

So talking about "giving wrong advice" is IMO very difficult because in the end who exactly decides what is wrong and what is right? It doesn't fit our own view of the bariatric world so it must be wrong? Can't be that simple, or can it?

Edited August 7, 2016 by summerset

[smg 471]

hang around a bit more, things will settle down and there'll be a whole new batch of vets. Hopefully some of the old ones will miss things around here and wander back.

have you noticed that many of those who spark the issues tend to disappear also?

I don't necessarily think that the vets who have "disappeared" have been the (only) ones who have "sparked the issues"...I think there's probably plenty of blame to go around from both sides of any conversation that goes awry. I do think it's unfortunate that the vets who have disappeared did so, as they are undoubtedly the most knowledgeable having gone through quite a bit more of the process than me, and I learned a lot from the information that they offered.

I'm certain that are other vets who may not have been directly involved in any of this and chose to stop posting with little to no interest in having to carefully word responses to avoid being offensive to anyone, and subsequently yelled at for it). What may sound "offensive" to one may not be to another and if we choose to mold the "model response" around only those who are easily offended, I think that's a dangerous game to play and lot of questions will either go unanswered, or perhaps some people just won't get the "push" that they need in certain situations. If vets are here to help and really, why else would they be here, yet they find themselves unable to address specific situations with responses that they feel are warranted for that specific situation, then there is no longer a reason for them to want to be here....so they go. Sadly, more than I would like to have seen go have done just that, and it's really unfortunate. Additionally, we automatically go after the offender, but I don't always think that's the right answer either. If a person is offended or doesn't care for a particular way his or her question is answered, rather than immediately going on the defensive, they just simply bring it to the other person's attention. "Thank you for taking the time to reply, however, i really am not comfortable with how you are responding". If it escalates beyond that, then that's the job of a moderator (IMHO) as the thread has gone off-point and serves no productive purpose any longer.

There's a difference between being straightforward and being outright rude and unhelpful, and I've seen it be "the fault" of both new and old members alike. I've seen threads recently where a new person asks a question, and a vet asks a clarifying, follow up question, a follow-up question that was completely legit and necessary to offer further assistance, and having the new person simply tell them to go away for "answering their question with a question". That's not the vet "sparking" that issue....so if we treat the vets a specific way, and then have others (not Alex -- he's been pretty universal in that his comments apply to all members as they should) tell the vets that they are the ones who need to watch their responses, why on earth would they want to stay for that. What are they getting out of that experience?

Not everything is "roses and candy and skipping through the meadows"...nor should it be...lol. This isn't an easy process or an easy change to make and sometimes you need to be "slapped upside the head" and told to get back on track. You might not want to hear it, but it also might be the only response you remember BECAUSE it p****d you off. Chances are, unless the response was just rude and belligerent, it probably p***d you off because the person responding was right on the money. If it's to the point where you truly are offended by a response or a response was rude and not helpful, and you just simply don't see the value in hearing from that person any longer, there is an ignore button that will solve it immediately.

Honestly, I don't know where to go for more advanced questions at this point so I've just been focused on helping as many new people as I can. I'm not interested in waiting for more vets....by the time that rolls around, I might be one myself and I'd rather not navigate this road on my own...that's what drew me to this community in the first place...so it would be nice if those values and benefits were still present...but they just aren't at the moment, and that's unfortunate.

There will never be 100% agreement on this issue, and personally I don't think there's much value in continuing the conversation much longer as it's starting to become nothing more than people "picking sides" and really not moving any closer to any type of solution to the problem....my 2 cents.

[NeedaBreak4Me 1,755]

All the vets i came to rely on for advice are gone, some of the "newer vets" give conflicting or inconsistent advice, the newbies are giving advice to newbies who are also giving advice that is incorrect or inconsistent.

I have a feeling that this "advice thing" is becoming a pet peeve of mine.

Who exactly decides what is "wrong" or "right" advice anyway? As far I can see there simply is a whole truckload of conflicting advice/rules out there because there is no real standard available on diet, pre-/post-op regimen etc.

Simply compare the rules/advice your own surgical team gave you with any other member who got surgery at a different hospital and you will notice that at least some rules will contradict each other.

So talking about "giving wrong advice" is IMO very difficult because in the end who exactly decides what is wrong and what is right? It doesn't fit our own view of the bariatric world so it must be wrong? Can't be that simple, or can it?

Let me clarify what i meant...

Advice as in solid concrete advice backed by medical data/known knowledge.... not someones interpretation of what should be done because of their personal opinion...

Eg.... eating solids 3 days out, overdosing on Vitamins that cause physical harm, or doing something against their surgeons instructions etc

There is very big differences in plans... and everyone should stick to it.. if they have a question, medical advice should be sought from their practitioner not some random person on a forum. (You can supplement advice given here, but confirm with your practitioner if its okay)

Eg. We were allowed purees as soon as we were discharged from hospital, but i would never tell anyone to stray from their own plan, even when i know it was safe for me to do so.

I have done this in the past... i always take the advice given and confirm with my surgeon that its okay....

Unfortunately some people nievely take all advice as truth and that can be a problem with so many varying opinions.. its just plain dangerous to do so.

[summerset 5,261]

@ I have to say I really don't get what you are aiming at with "inconsistent and conflicting advice" from both newbie and vets. Could you give an example, please? Or construct one if you don't want to take one out of the existing threads?

Advice as in solid concrete advice backed by medical data/known knowledge.... not someones interpretation of what should be done because of their personal opinion...

With that do you mean that if someone gives advice and can back it up with e. g. a scientific paper it would be "right" advice?

[NeedaBreak4Me 1,755]

I mean exactly that.. proper medical advice that is not a personal opinion on what should be done... that has actual medical or scientific data backing it up..

Like the example i gave earlier... not eating solids early out... we know that eating solids can cause leaks, tears and other complications... however i have seen people say something "soft" won't hurt... and at 3 days out... it can!

Im not saying we need scientific papers as proof... im just saying that the advice for newbies should be more "concrete" as this is a risk to their health and well being if it is incorrect.

Also, there is a difference between giving advice and sharing experiences...

Sharing experiences is fine.... but giving advice regarding something specific should be correct and objective, or a suggestion of possibility if unsure...

Edited August 7, 2016 by AussieGirl81

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

The us vs them, junior high school type cliques, incorrectly flaming people, bad attitudes towards helpful advice that was given, having already answered the same questions dozens of times, no feedback for people who take the extra time and effort to provide advice and info that is well above and beyond, or someone already answered that question in that post are a few reasons why people don't post or post as often.