SERIOUSLY? REALLY? YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!

[heynowkc 329]

Sadly, the truth is that I can no longer come to this site without seeing at least one rude/judgmental/accusatory/unsupportive/antagonistic/snarky/overly (overly overly overly) defensive/snobby reply to at least one thread where someone was struggling and/or genuinely looking for help and support. I've never been the target of these replies, but if I were, I'd feel like I was being attacked/written off/judged/etc. with no good reason.

There is still a lot of good info/support here, and it's a wonderful place for pre-op questions, but unless you're looking for your own personal drill sergeant it's not the most kind/caring/information sharing type of "support group" that I'd wager most people are looking for.

This post is basically saying that to people who don't like the drill sergeant method: "There's something intrinsically wrong with you and you're not ready for weight loss surgery anyway and you need to seek psychological help, you whiny, whiny baby."

Well I'm sorry, but I take issue with that. First of all who are you to tell someone they're ready or not? Based on some arbitrary make-believe guidelines that have zero to do with WLS. What does one thing have to do with the other? (PROTIP: That was a rhetorical question. The answer is "nothing at all.") Also, this ENTIRE thread is a whiny reaction to something "someone that you don't know" posted on a message board. Isn't that a little hypocritical? (Also rhetorical!)

This is basically how I feel about the whole thing. I'm no wilting flower, so I can take the tough stuff (and spit it right back out) and be no worse for the wear. Some people are far more sensitive and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if anyone is free to come here and dish out "tough love" then the people who are defending the "tough love" approach need to also recognize that people might, just MAYBE, publicly complain about it. You're putting yourself out there on the internet, not everybody is going to like what you have to say. It doesn't mean they're "universally defining" you or whatever you say, but it does mean that each of us gets to define our reactions to it for ourselves, whether publicly, or privately. So, my advice is: deal with it and stop complaining that not everybody likes every little thing you say.

[beachgurl84 456]

Sadly, the truth is that I can no longer come to this site without seeing at least one rude/judgmental/accusatory/unsupportive/antagonistic/snarky/overly (overly overly overly) defensive/snobby reply to at least one thread where someone was struggling and/or genuinely looking for help and support. I've never been the target of these replies, but if I were, I'd feel like I was being attacked/written off/judged/etc. with no good reason.

There is still a lot of good info/support here, and it's a wonderful place for pre-op questions, but unless you're looking for your own personal drill sergeant it's not the most kind/caring/information sharing type of "support group" that I'd wager most people are looking for.

This post is basically saying that to people who don't like the drill sergeant method: "There's something intrinsically wrong with you and you're not ready for weight loss surgery anyway and you need to seek psychological help, you whiny, whiny baby."

Well I'm sorry, but I take issue with that. First of all who are you to tell someone they're ready or not? Based on some arbitrary make-believe guidelines that have zero to do with WLS. What does one thing have to do with the other? (PROTIP: That was a rhetorical question. The answer is "nothing at all.") Also, this ENTIRE thread is a whiny reaction to something "someone that you don't know" posted on a message board. Isn't that a little hypocritical? (Also rhetorical!)

This is basically how I feel about the whole thing. I'm no wilting flower, so I can take the tough stuff (and spit it right back out) and be no worse for the wear. Some people are far more sensitive and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if anyone is free to come here and dish out "tough love" then the people who are defending the "tough love" approach need to also recognize that people might, just MAYBE, publicly complain about it. You're putting yourself out there on the internet, not everybody is going to like what you have to say. It doesn't mean they're "universally defining" you or whatever you say, but it does mean that each of us gets to define our reactions to it for ourselves, whether publicly, or privately. So, my advice is: deal with it and stop complaining that not everybody likes every little thing you say.

I don't know if you realize it but it sounds like you are arguing against the OP while supporting it at the same time. I think the whole point was.........if you don't like it, get over it, not whine about becoming depressed because somebody said something mean. Maybe I misunderstood your point, but that's how I read it.

[funky_monkey800 243]

I loved reading through this...

It's amazing how differently everyone interprets posts.

As for me, I understand getting upset when they read something....I have been upset....but never to the point of depression....I don't know these people personally, and they don't know me. For the most part 99% of us have screen names, so I wouldn't know you if I passed you on the street.

Take it or leave it....I'm a firm believer that we as humans are smart enough to keep scrolling or reply. If your feelings are hurt don't reply and move on.

You are only feeding into the "depression" by responding and getting more upset....let it go and move on...

As for me I am the type of person who needs the friend who tells me I messed up when I ate two doughnuts......

[Babbs 14,680]

Edited March 23, 2015 by Babbs

[Cleo's Mom 257]

one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone goes into a thread and patronizes someone by saying "we've ALL done that"

If you have NEVER fallen off the wagon or done something "against the rules" during this journey then that makes you perfect. If you have then that makes you imperfect. You are one or the other. You've either done it or you haven't. If the perfect people who have "never done that" (gone off the wagon even a little) feel patronized, please feel free to tell me.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

@@heynowkc

Great post. You hit the nail on the head for all the relevant points previously discussed. And you made excellent points of your own. Good for you. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for your post. :)

[gal friday 176]

Well, I guess you've been the perfect pre-op and post-op patient who has never once gone off the wagon so to speak. Or made any mistakes. Good for you.

Any other perfect sleeve pre or post opt people? Feel free to tell us how to be perfect through out all of this journey. I am sure those who are imperfect could learn so much. However, I don't think those who are imperfect would view my remark as patronizing.

Maybe a new thread could be started entitled "Perfect sleevers please step forward - those who have made mistakes need not post".

Have a perfect day!!

How bizarre of you to put words in my mouth.

And you were a therapist?

You have a great day, too.

Either you can't keep track of who you are disagreeing with, or there are two therapists in this thread, because I'm the former therapist. But if there are two of us, hello therapist buddy!

Earlier you said 'sorry for your loss', again I think there is some confusion - I have MS, but I'm not dying. I'm not professionally frustrated either - I'm a stay at home mom now, and I find that to be really fulfilling. I don't need internet forums for surrogacy for my former profession, because while I mention it when it's relevant, it's not how I define who I am. And I'm not here for drama either - I get enough of that with the MS.

I came here because I was raised to know that you don't kick someone when they are down. Depression, frustration, and loss of willpower are not weaknesses, they are normal human responses to overwhelming stress and change. So when I see someone getting kicked when they are down, someone struggling to keep their head above Water being deliberately shoved back under the surface, I step in to provide defense and support. It's instinctual, a fundamental part of who I am, its been automatic my whole life. In a supposedly supportive environment, I don't know how not to do it. I responded flippantly only because it seemed that that's how the OP viewed the situation, based on their post. It was not some drama heightening technique, it just seemed to be the way the OP wanted discourse. I don't want pandering in this group, it does no one any good, but neither do I want people being vicious simply because being anonymous strips away consequences. I see it over and over and over on the internet, and while that is how it is some places, places of 'support' are not it, unless they are defined that way from the start - which this group isn't.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Yes, duh. But what if the kitchen had a big sign that said "when you are frustrated and exhausted and you just can't bear it anymore, come on in, you'll find support here."

Be honest - if we were all physically in a room, and one of us was crying because of the stress and the overwhelming change in her life - would you tell her to leave, that she was too weak to be a part of the group?

I'm just so done. It's so stupid, the more I explain myself, the less you'll listen. Really, I only still respond because there may be someone quietly reading who needs the support, who needs to know that someone empathizes with them and why they're here. Since this got moved off the main board, I probably don't have to worry about that anymore.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Either you can't keep track of who you are disagreeing with, or there are two therapists in this thread, because I'm the former therapist. But if there are two of us, hello therapist buddy!

Earlier you said 'sorry for your loss', again I think there is some confusion - I have MS, but I'm not dying. I'm not professionally frustrated either - I'm a stay at home mom now, and I find that to be really fulfilling. I don't need internet forums for surrogacy for my former profession, because while I mention it when it's relevant, it's not how I define who I am. And I'm not here for drama either - I get enough of that with the MS.

I came here because I was raised to know that you don't kick someone when they are down. Depression, frustration, and loss of willpower are not weaknesses, they are normal human responses to overwhelming stress and change. So when I see someone getting kicked when they are down, someone struggling to keep their head above Water being deliberately shoved back under the surface, I step in to provide defense and support. It's instinctual, a fundamental part of who I am, its been automatic my whole life. In a supposedly supportive environment, I don't know how not to do it. I responded flippantly only because it seemed that that's how the OP viewed the situation, based on their post. It was not some drama heightening technique, it just seemed to be the way the OP wanted discourse. I don't want pandering in this group, it does no one any good, but neither do I want people being vicious simply because being anonymous strips away consequences. I see it over and over and over on the internet, and while that is how it is some places, places of 'support' are not it, unless they are defined that way from the start - which this group isn't.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Yes, duh. But what if the kitchen had a big sign that said "when you are frustrated and exhausted and you just can't bear it anymore, come on in, you'll find support here."

Be honest - if we were all physically in a room, and one of us was crying because of the stress and the overwhelming change in her life - would you tell her to leave, that she was too weak to be a part of the group?

I'm just so done. It's so stupid, the more I explain myself, the less you'll listen. Really, I only still respond because there may be someone quietly reading who needs the support, who needs to know that someone empathizes with them and why they're here. Since this got moved off the main board, I probably don't have to worry about that anymore.

You are absolutely right! I did get the former therapist (who isn't) confused with you (who is). Phew! That makes me feel SO MUCH better. I own that error 100% fo'sure!

That said, you have a few of us confuzzled, too. I never said "sorry for your loss". Nope. Twasn't me. Nor did I say anything about heat and the ktichen. Never did I tell anyone to leave NOR did I even participate in either of the threads that spurned the OP in the first place.

I dare say your words above were directed at me unfairly. That, or you can't keep track of who you are disagreeing with. Easy to do, for sure.

[samuelsmom 670]

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Yes, duh. But what if the kitchen had a big sign that said "when you are frustrated and exhausted and you just can't bear it anymore, come on in, you'll find support here."

Be honest - if we were all physically in a room, and one of us was crying because of the stress and the overwhelming change in her life - would you tell her to leave, that she was too weak to be a part of the group?

Thank you for those images. They are powerful. I am going to try to visualize that when there is a post from someone who is having a hard time and I am responding.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Well, I guess you've been the perfect pre-op and post-op patient who has never once gone off the wagon so to speak. Or made any mistakes. Good for you.

Any other perfect sleeve pre or post opt people? Feel free to tell us how to be perfect through out all of this journey. I am sure those who are imperfect could learn so much. However, I don't think those who are imperfect would view my remark as patronizing.

Maybe a new thread could be started entitled "Perfect sleevers please step forward - those who have made mistakes need not post".

Have a perfect day!!

How bizarre of you to put words in my mouth.

And you were a therapist?

You have a great day, too.

Either you can't keep track of who you are disagreeing with, or there are two therapists in this thread, because I'm the former therapist. But if there are two of us, hello therapist buddy!

Earlier you said 'sorry for your loss', again I think there is some confusion - I have MS, but I'm not dying. I'm not professionally frustrated either - I'm a stay at home mom now, and I find that to be really fulfilling. I don't need internet forums for surrogacy for my former profession, because while I mention it when it's relevant, it's not how I define who I am. And I'm not here for drama either - I get enough of that with the MS.

I came here because I was raised to know that you don't kick someone when they are down. Depression, frustration, and loss of willpower are not weaknesses, they are normal human responses to overwhelming stress and change. So when I see someone getting kicked when they are down, someone struggling to keep their head above Water being deliberately shoved back under the surface, I step in to provide defense and support. It's instinctual, a fundamental part of who I am, its been automatic my whole life. In a supposedly supportive environment, I don't know how not to do it. I responded flippantly only because it seemed that that's how the OP viewed the situation, based on their post. It was not some drama heightening technique, it just seemed to be the way the OP wanted discourse. I don't want pandering in this group, it does no one any good, but neither do I want people being vicious simply because being anonymous strips away consequences. I see it over and over and over on the internet, and while that is how it is some places, places of 'support' are not it, unless they are defined that way from the start - which this group isn't.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Yes, duh. But what if the kitchen had a big sign that said "when you are frustrated and exhausted and you just can't bear it anymore, come on in, you'll find support here."

Be honest - if we were all physically in a room, and one of us was crying because of the stress and the overwhelming change in her life - would you tell her to leave, that she was too weak to be a part of the group?

I'm just so done. It's so stupid, the more I explain myself, the less you'll listen. Really, I only still respond because there may be someone quietly reading who needs the support, who needs to know that someone empathizes with them and why they're here. Since this got moved off the main board, I probably don't have to worry about that anymore.

No, I'm not a therapist. But thank you for this very insightful post. And I wish you the best of luck with your MS because I think I've read where they're making some progress with medications. I've also heard some things about a gluten free diet helping but I'm sure you've heard/read it all. Good luck.

[sharonintx 1,275]

Haha! Great post. Sometimes I read through the posts on this site and am amazed at the carrying on, judgmental replies, and "answers" to questions from those who really should just keep quiet. I have never seen more holier than thou attitudes anywhere that are worse than a select few at bariatricpal.com.

Personally I think they should lighten up and quit preaching. Get a sense of humor and perhaps not project your misery onto others so often.

PS: Really what I wanted to say was Yeah - how about zipping it you know it all mf-ers. But I decided to be halfway polite and post the above response.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Haha! Great post. Sometimes I read through the posts on this site and am amazed at the carrying on, judgmental replies, and "answers" to questions from those who really should just keep quiet. I have never seen more holier than thou attitudes anywhere that are worse than a select few at bariatricpal.com.

Personally I think they should lighten up and quit preaching. Get a sense of humor and perhaps not project your misery onto others so often.

PS: Really what I wanted to say was Yeah - how about zipping it you know it all mf-ers. But I decided to be halfway polite and post the above response.

I so wish I knew who you are talking to. Or maybe not! Ha!

[beachgurl84 456]

I think this thread has gotten off topic from the original time it got off topic.

Raise your hand if you think those of us advocting the side of the OP are really out to beat people up and kick them when their down? Ok, put your hands down and get out of here, you missed the entire point.

For the rest of you, OF COURSE nobody wants to see anybody get kicked when their down. I didn't hear a single person say that on here. But if you're not willing to stand up for yourself, or be proactive in your own journey and you're going to whine and stop the entire process because somebody said something mean to you, then you don't need us. you need to reflect on yourself and find something to fight for.

I'll help those that try to help themselves. Yes that includes a burning kitchen. If they want to sit down and say "I give up because it's hot in here" I'm not hanging around to talk them out of a burning building.

Dang, i'm full of visuals today

Edited March 23, 2015 by beachgurl84

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I think this thread has gotten off topic from the original time it got off topic.

Raise your hand if you think those of us advocting the side of the OP are really out to beat people up and kick them when their down? Ok, put your hands down and get out of here, you missed the entire point.

For the rest of you, OF COURSE nobody wants to see anybody get kicked when their down. I didn't hear a single person say that on here. But if you're not willing to stand up for yourself, or be proactive in your own journey and you're going to whine and stop the entire process because somebody said something mean to you, then you don't need us. you need to reflect on yourself and find something to fight for.

I'll help those that try to help themselves. Yes that includes a burning kitchen. If they want to sit down and say "I give up because it's hot in here" I'm not hanging around to talk them out of a burning building.

Dang, i'm full of visuals today

AAAA-freaking-men.

[Babbs 14,680]

I think this thread has gotten off topic from the original time it got off topic.

Raise your hand if you think those of us advocting the side of the OP are really out to beat people up and kick them when their down? Ok, put your hands down and get out of here, you missed the entire point.

For the rest of you, OF COURSE nobody wants to see anybody get kicked when their down. I didn't hear a single person say that on here. But if you're not willing to stand up for yourself, or be proactive in your own journey and you're going to whine and stop the entire process because somebody said something mean to you, then you don't need us. you need to reflect on yourself and find something to fight for.

I'll help those that try to help themselves. Yes that includes a burning kitchen. If they want to sit down and say "I give up because it's hot in here" I'm not hanging around to talk them out of a burning building.

Dang, i'm full of visuals today

SO. MUCH. THIS.