Enabling

[clk 3,519]

My stepkids come visit for the summer, and that drags the in-laws in as well. So I cook for an army all summer and yes, once a week is "clean out the fridge day" and they get to choose their leftovers and eat up the excess food. They almost never complain, but even if they did I wouldn't think this was cruel at all.

My son was the pickiest eater in the world until just a few months ago. No Pasta. Nothing with a sauce. Nothing mixed up like a casserole or Soup or pot pie. He would only eat peas, carrots or cucumbers and fresh fruit. Oh, and bread. He'll eat bread all day and night. Many a night the kid ate toast or cheerios while the rest of us ate a real meal. He's only gained ten pounds in the last three years - he's skin and bones - but he's getting taller and the doctor says no worries. Just recently we emphasized trying new foods. We put it on his weekly chart and he had to try a new food each day. Hallelujah, it worked! The kid now eats a wider variety of foods. He's still picky but at least I know he's not starving.

We don't do separate dinners in my house. If you don't eat dinner, you get toast or Cereal. I'm mean, but they're not starving and I don't punish them for not eating so it works for me.

My good friend who was sleeved in June called me about a month later to say, "Oh my God I did not expect that I would have to feel my feelings!" She (like my husband) has a history of bingeing, purging, and all sorts of disordered behavior. And she's a Type A, must achieve all the way. As is my husband in his own way. And my sister too (although she is compulsively thinner.) I remember being somewhere with my sister and my husband where I had two bites of a soft pretzel and threw it away, and they looked at me like I was crazy. I said, "What? I'm done." And she said, "I could never do that. So I don't buy them at all." And my husband said, "I'd just buy it and eat it, even if I was stuffed." Point being, there are 5 million types of crazy in the naked city.

I will say I'm guilty of assuming everyone can or should be able to walk away from food like I can. There are currently six dozen Cookies on my counter cooling. Hubs is taking them into the office for someone's birthday. Zero temptation. To me, to the kids, to the hubs...nobody cares. These are yummy cookies, but nobody cares. With few exceptions, food is not a big deal around here. I'm even breaking my soda addiction! It's liberating.

So when people say they can't throw things away or stop eating I get frustrated. Why? What's controlling you and forcing you to keep going? I don't understand it, and that makes me far less sympathetic about this, unfortunately.

Oh, and Butter had gelato? I'm jealous. Not because I want gelato; I don't. Rather, because even if I did want gelato it would upset my tummy that still won't tolerate any of those rich dairy things. Instead of savoring the treat, I'd wind up with dumping syndrome.

But I totally had a small soda and some popcorn at the theater the other day. It did NOT taste like turkey and cheese. But it was less than satisfying - the popcorn was too salty and the soda was too sweet.

These are the times I have regrets. Not REAL regrets but sort of a sad look back at how much enjoyment I used to get out of food. Those splurges are less worthwhile to me.

~Cheri

[Butterthebean 8,146]

?....

I will say I'm guilty of assuming everyone can or should be able to walk away from food like I can. ........

So when people say they can't throw things away or stop eating I get frustrated. Why? What's controlling you and forcing you to keep going? I don't understand it, and that makes me far less sympathetic about this, unfortunately.

Oh, and Butter had gelato? I'm jealous. Not because I want gelato; I don't. Rather, because even if I did want gelato it would upset my tummy that still won't tolerate any of those rich dairy things. Instead of savoring the treat, I'd wind up with dumping syndrome.

......

~Cheri

So maybe the reason you can walk away is because you've experienced negative feedback in the form of dumping? I've never had an episode...and frankly I regret it, because I can eat sweets day and night still with no adverse effects......except of course the scale skyrockets.

[gamergirl 4,609]

My stepkids come visit for the summer, and that drags the in-laws in as well. So I cook for an army all summer and yes, once a week is "clean out the fridge day" and they get to choose their leftovers and eat up the excess food. They almost never complain, but even if they did I wouldn't think this was cruel at all.

My son was the pickiest eater in the world until just a few months ago. No Pasta. Nothing with a sauce. Nothing mixed up like a casserole or Soup or pot pie. He would only eat peas, carrots or cucumbers and fresh fruit. Oh, and bread. He'll eat bread all day and night. Many a night the kid ate toast or cheerios while the rest of us ate a real meal. He's only gained ten pounds in the last three years - he's skin and bones - but he's getting taller and the doctor says no worries. Just recently we emphasized trying new foods. We put it on his weekly chart and he had to try a new food each day. Hallelujah, it worked! The kid now eats a wider variety of foods. He's still picky but at least I know he's not starving.

We don't do separate dinners in my house. If you don't eat dinner, you get toast or cereal. I'm mean, but they're not starving and I don't punish them for not eating so it works for me.

I will say I'm guilty of assuming everyone can or should be able to walk away from food like I can. There are currently six dozen Cookies on my counter cooling. Hubs is taking them into the office for someone's birthday. Zero temptation. To me, to the kids, to the hubs...nobody cares. These are yummy cookies, but nobody cares. With few exceptions, food is not a big deal around here. I'm even breaking my soda addiction! It's liberating.

So when people say they can't throw things away or stop eating I get frustrated. Why? What's controlling you and forcing you to keep going? I don't understand it, and that makes me far less sympathetic about this, unfortunately.

~Cheri

I didn't understand the inability to walk away from food either, until I met my husband. I am that rare fat person that used to have a box of my fav chocolates open--and eat one piece a day and the box would last a month because some days I would forget I had a box of chocolates. I routinely had to throw out chips and cookies because we forgot about them and the chips were soggy and the cookies had mold growing on them.

I couldn't understand the "see food" diet my husband had to follow. We can have anything open in the house and it usually doesn't call to me--unless it's one of my trigger foods.

For my husband, it's not like that. They call him in pervasive, seductive, irresistible voices and then he eats a small piece, and another one and another one until it's all gone.

This is not a man with no self-control or self-discipline. He decided to quit a 40-year, 2 pack a day habit--and quit cold turkey. Decided to quit drinking--and just quit. He is stubborn as a mule, very decisive, and terribly opinionated (yes, we're both like that and yet we get along!) This is not a "weak" person. He is one of the strongest people I know, emotionally speaking.

But he can't resist the junk food. He just cannot. It is bigger than him and I had to accept that. It meant severely restricting what I brought into the house. At first I resented it because some of those were things the kids enjoyed--but now I know that is the support he needs from me. If I want to love and support him, I have to give up eating my one-a-day chocolates, because for him, it's "all in one day" chocolates.

He supports me in a thousand different ways. I can do this for him.

[clk 3,519]

Maybe. But I've only had that type of experience a handful of times. I just lost a huge amount of my interest in food.

That doesn't mean I've never overdone it. I have. I had a more difficult time learning my sleeve's limitations than some because I enjoyed overeating and eating to pain prior to surgery. I also had a hard time because work obligations kept me out at dinner parties that lasted hours and I was expected to eat, eat, eat. That was tough. I've tossed up my last bite or two more times than I'd care to admit.

In my case, when I overindulge or eat too much of something I shouldn't it's not because I felt I really wanted that food. In most cases, I'm STILL disinterested in food. When I binge or mindlessly eat, I do it because I feel compelled to do it. It's an ingrained habit, it's a completely unsatisfying act, it's not enjoyable at all. And it is 100% of the time related to stress or hormones.

So yeah, I can still throw away more than half an uneaten cake. Not because I am worried about the negative effects of eating that cake, but because I don't care about that cake and don't need it around. The only feelings I used to feel about tossing food away were guilt for being wasteful, and even now that's fading.

~Cheri

[clk 3,519]

GG, that's me, too - before and after surgery. My hubs (pretty fit, active duty military) thinks a pint of ice cream is a serving. I can eat off a pint of ice cream for two months, having just a tiny spoon a day.

I always just tossed the crumbly chips at the bottom of the bag and my husband thought I was nuts wasting them. I was the one with the clean your plate club parents, too. We got beatings for not eating our meals, and weren't even allowed to make our own plates. We were served by our elders - massive portions even for adults - and punished for not eating every bite.

Maybe THAT plays more into my ability to walk away from food. Maybe it's my rebellion. Who knows.

I just can't relate to the needing to eat. I don't. I still go hours on end without eating and only realize I need to do it when I get lightheaded or my sleeve growls at me due to the acid roaring around in there!

~Cheri

Edited to add: I actually CAN'T eat off a pint of ice cream any longer. Like I said earlier, rich dairy like that kills my tummy. I could probably eat off a pint of that So Delicious coconut ice cream though.

Edited November 18, 2013 by clk

[Butterthebean 8,146]

........

So yeah, I can still throw away more than half an uneaten cake. Not because I am worried about the negative effects of eating that cake, but because I don't care about that cake and don't need it around. The only feelings I used to feel about tossing food away were guilt for being wasteful, and even now that's fading.

~Cheri

Well, I will say I've embraced the "throwing away of food"......but definitely because of the negative effects of eating it. I'm like Doc Hershey's husband.....why leave it on the shelf for later? Hey....these Cookies aren't going to eat themselves, I better do it. My wife can make a package of M&Ms last a month. I can't make them last 2 minutes.

If I want to eat less than ideal foods with any semblance of moderation, I either have to buy very tiny quantities (which is getting harder and harder) or eat 3 bites and dump the rest into the kitty litter box before it falls into my mouth.

I don't think I'd last too long at your house Cheri. 6 dozen cookies would not make it too "cool" on your counter. Maybe 4 dozen. I still have those reflexes....that drive to eat all things loaded with sugar. But at least I have found the will not to bring them into my house......often.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I am a person that hear the siren song of food... even if I am not hungry. It is like crack or something. The only way I can avoid snacking on sweet or salty food in the evening is to not have it in the house. I won't drive to the store to indulge, but I will roam my kitchen. I guess self awareness is half the battle - btW this is one reason I will never date someone who is a real foodie. It is so much easier for me to be around the type of person who doesn't care much about food, that attitude helps me and I don't even know why... shifts focus I guess. Maybe someday food will lose its power over me but right now I see it as the demon that is under control, but still lurking. Part of the problem is I just NEED so little to maintain... doesn't take much to go off the rails so to speak.

Sometimes I miss recreational eating, but mostly I see it like it is - an unhealthy substitute for what it is I really want and need in my life.

[PdxMan 4,292]

I have a question for GG and Cheri, and please don't interpret my question as judging or saying anything negative. I'm just curious about your background and am summarizing here.

You both mentioned you don't understand why people can't walk away from food, so I am curious as to how you came to choosing a bariatric procedure. I know for me, if it were as simple as choosing not to abuse food, I would have never needed WLS ... I would have merely chose not to overeat or make poor choices.

Unfortunately, I tend to believe other folks who have WLS have a similar background as myself, so I am curious as to your story. I know I am asking a very personal question here, so please do not feel compelled to answer if you don't want to. Again, I am not judging you in as much as I am judging myself for making a poor assumption.

[Fluffnomore 1,235]

So interesting. I'm like Cheri and GG. I've had Halloween candy in my closet for the last month and it just doesn't even occur to me that I might want it. (As a result of our having to hide candy, it is not an unusual thing for me to find candy a year later.)

Now, I might be more tempted by chips, but even so I can take a serving and forget about it. However, I can't have chips, candy, sweets, or Peanut Butter in plain sight in the house, or it's gone. Even yogurts get plowed through. Not by me, but by my husband and to some lesser extent the kids. So we are dealing with family culture issues here regardless of what my triggers might be.

This is not to say that I didn't have some kind of disordered eating and drinking. I was also raised with the mantra, "Food should hurt" and had some bad habits. (I'm jumping in and answering PdX's question, since he's here…) It's not all about trigger foods and eating until insanity. I really had a lot of trouble first losing weight unless I was ill and wasn't able to eat much, and second being consistent.

The first triggered the thought that if the capacity wasn't there, the weight loss should be easier to have while learning the new habits and changing the lifestyle. Check back with me in a year and see if I'm right or wrong. I don't know. I do know that I have to eat an "insanely" low amount of calories to lose weight. This restriction makes that a fact. If I can work with it, then I think I will solve it.

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

I won't drive to the store to indulge, but I will roam my kitchen.

I TOTALLY identify with this one. I would walk into my kitchen at midnight - particular if there had been drink taken, I was bored or we had guests. I would open every cupboard in some sort of rhythmic haze and in a show of culinary inspiration, could knock up a three course meal. Loaves and fishes? Hell, I've turned the most ordinary ingredients into a gourmet meal for 6 - and eaten enough for 3.

I resented the sleeve sometimes, because I missed the sensation of gorging on something I like the taste of - like lasagne and goats cheese. However, as quickly as the feeling comes - it now goes away promptly with a camomile tea.

I also don't hate myself in the morning when I don't have the huge carb-hangover or my clothes are uncomfortably tight.

Swings and roundabouts. This time round, my swings and roundabouts look more like a beautifully painted carousel.

[PdxMan 4,292]

For me, I cannot eat to "insane" levels, as I did before. I made poor choices and was not able to get up from the table until my plate was clean. I am a person who loves the feeling of being full. This was true pre-sleeve and is still true today. This is one of the primary reasons I got sleeved, to get that feeling with so much less volume. Also, now, with such a small amount of volume, I know I have to get the best bang for my buck, so what I do choose to eat usually is of a much healthier nature.

But I totally understand the person who can't walk away from the plate of Cookies or who must finish the entire plate of baked halibut with asparagus. (Healthy meals) IMO, food does something else for them besides meet nutritional needs. That was true for me and I am wanting to learn what some of the other underlying issues may be.

[Fluffnomore 1,235]

I wish I knew. I wish I knew why I couldn't lose weight and keep it off. I wish I knew why I have friends who, when they have to lose weight say "I'll just finish about 2/3 of every plate, and it will just drop off." But that never worked well for me.

[mistysj 1,939]

Fluffster, has your husband considered self-pay in Mexico?

[gamergirl 4,609]

I have a question for GG and Cheri, and please don't interpret my question as judging or saying anything negative. I'm just curious about your background and am summarizing here.

You both mentioned you don't understand why people can't walk away from food, so I am curious as to how you came to choosing a bariatric procedure. I know for me, if it were as simple as choosing not to abuse food, I would have never needed WLS ... I would have merely chose not to overeat or make poor choices.

Unfortunately, I tend to believe other folks who have WLS have a similar background as myself, so I am curious as to your story. I know I am asking a very personal question here, so please do not feel compelled to answer if you don't want to. Again, I am not judging you in as much as I am judging myself for making a poor assumption.

It's actually a very interesting question and one that caused me a lot of introspection to understand WHY I put on weight.

Consider my situation. 5'6, female, 47 years old, not in menopause, underactive thyroid, and acute inflammation from an autoimmune disease the latter two of which will slow down weight loss. Eats 1200-1300 calories a day most days--yes, seriously. Tracks calories religiously for years and years. You show me a food, I can tell you how many calories in it.

Ate "badly" at times in one or two ways. Either starved myself on 800 calories a day for months on end, or ate 2-3 pieces of cake one week or maybe those damn little Debbie Peanut Butter things (can we say trigger foods??!). I have never eaten a whole cake, a whole pizza, a whole pint of ice cream in one sitting. I never hid my eating, binged, or purged. Never even finished my portions at restaurants. I don't drink so no junk calories there either.

Could not lose weight. Could NOT lose weight.

I'm not like those people that lost 100s of lbs only to put it on. I simply couldn't lose the weight (except when I was dying, two years ago). Worked out hard with a trainer for 6 months, ate 6 small meals of clean food--lost ONE pound in 6 months. I think even the trainer was ready to cry.

Did Paleo, put on 10 lbs in one month. Did vegetarian diet with 2 lbs of veggies, 3 fruits, 1 c of Beans, 1 handful of nuts for 2 months, lost nothing.

So WHY? WHY the hell did I weigh so much? I am not sure I know the whole answer still. But I do know one very important part of the answer.

I am a sugar and carb addict. And I do not have the metabolism for it.

Even today, I cannot eat a piece of fruit without being super hungry for the rest of the day. Pre-sleeve, I didn't control my carbs. Yes I ate 1200 calories, but often that was almost NO meat. Pasta, rice, lentils, veggies, fruit, no meat. I hated meat. So I think I gained weight because I ate the foods that were the WORST for me, and I didn't realize that.

I do wonder what would have happened if I had eaten meat and veggies before I got sleeved. Would I still have needed the sleeve? I don't know.

And notice I said I can leave them alone unless they are my trigger foods? Here's a list of my trigger foods. Cake, cake, and more cake. Donuts. Reese's pb cups. Those Peanut Butter bar things. Those horrid swiss cake rolls that will survive nuclear holocaust.

Those things? I can't leave alone. Those, I do eat until they are gone. And notice, they are ALL sugar + fat + Flour. Deadly combination, deadly addiction.

I thought I was well educated about food. I tried every diet there was--except the low carb diet because a) I wasn't sure it was good for me and I didn't want to give up my carbs--addict talk right there.

There may be more to the story, it's still being written. But I don't have the "typical" signs of a food addict and therefore it's taken me a while to figure out what went wrong.

I ate carbs and they caused me to crave more carbs. So I became insulin resistant, overweight, carb addicted, fat, and unhealthy. And always hungry.

It was when I could no longer control the constant hunger that I gave up control and admitted I needed help, and got sleeved.

Sorry for the long post but it's been an important journey for me.

[PdxMan 4,292]

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing. Your story is a little bit of mine, too, and I'm sure many others can relate. I, too, was (am) a carb addict. It did cause additional hunger for me and my answer was to satiate that with additional carbs. I was a snacker ... big time. Peanut Butter and crackers trembled when they entered my home because they knew their time on the shelf was going to be short. And it was.

But quantity was also one of my issues. I would easily be over 3,000 calories daily if I honestly added up everything I ate. (snacks don't really count towards calories, do they?)

One of the most valuable things I have gained from this journey, now almost 2 and a half years out is a better understanding of how I became morbidly obese and my poor relationship with food. I believe this to be one of the blessings of this procedure which I never knew about. It is my opinion that those who struggle turn a blind eye to confronting these demons and deny their existence. It is difficult for sure, but a necessary part of my journey.

Thanks again for sharing!