Now I really want to strangle someone.

gadgetlady · December 10, 2006

One of my pet peeves is people who don't respond to emails. I deliberately have an auto-response on my email all the time, indicating that I am away from my desk and if this is urgent to please call such-and-such. That way if I don't respond right away, they've been warned that it might not happen promptly.

It might be that this student wondered if you had received or read her email and part of her frustration had to do with your lack of response. If you had responded to any of her emails, even the last one, with "Thank you for your email. It is my policy to disclose all grades in such-and-such a way on such-and-such a date; for privacy reasons I don't email grades." (or something along those lines) it might have shut her up. If someone doesn't know for sure if you've received their emails, they might send over and over again because of it because emails do go astray and get buried in inboxes. KWIM?

MarySue33 · December 10, 2006

Before you think that I am just a 'bitter old hag' (who actually got that name from a student of hers, as I recall)...I'm looking at it from both sides, but probably just looking at it with a little more maturity and life experience than a 18-22 year old undergrad might...for you see, I am a student, too.

I'm working on my MBA right now and every one of my profs makes it very clear from day one how grades are shared with us. I have a hunch that Lauren and everyone in her program probably does the same and that the students know the protocol. All they usually have to do is to re-read the syllabus that was given to them the first day of class.

There have been many times that I would have loved to know my grade before all the class grades have been posted. I would never think that I should email one of my profs to ask for the info ahead of time. I am not the only student and this is not the only class that he or she is teaching. I am not the center of her universe...nor should I be.

I know that Lauren is taking a lot of heat on this, but just because people have access to email round-the-clock doesn't mean that we have to answer them at THEIR convenience. She probably has office hours. If the student needed to know this information that badly and did not get the immediate reply to her email, she could always stop by then. I still would not tell her what her grade was ahead of the rest of the class because it will just open up a floodgate. Why did you tell THAT student her grade ahead of time, but I had to wait? It's a no-win for the instructor.

One more thing...I would not consider her quote from the student's email any sort of breach of the student's privacy. She did not identify the student or the school or the course. Even if she had identified the course or the school, the only one who would know who she was talking about was the student, herself, and maybe she would see that she needs to grow up a bit and learn a little patience.

I have had candidates call me on my cell phone (thanks to one of our overly accommodating secretaries) or track me down on my home phone to try to get answers to questions on my off-hours. I don't answer those calls (thanks to Caller ID -- one of my favorite inventions). When I return to the office on Monday, I send a cordial email answering their questions, but also explaining that, while I did receive the message on the weekend, I value my time with my family and I do not answer business calls at home or on my cell phone.

Email and cell phones have become 'human leashes', in my opinion. I am veering a bit off topic here, but I know I drive people nuts (family and friends) because I am not available (by my choice) 24/7. I turn my cell phone off and only check my home email once a day. My out of office auto-response says, "I will not be checking my email while I am away. If you need immediate assistance, please contact..." I sometimes feel like I am on a one-woman mission to try to teach people that just because we have the technology to do something does not make it a polite or appropriate thing to do.

anonemouse · December 10, 2006

It might be that this student wondered if you had received or read her email and part of her frustration had to do with your lack of response.

I did respond to her email within 24 hours of reading her first email. I had 3 others by that time. Like MarySue33 said, having 24 hour access to email doesn't mean I check it 24 hours a day. I responded as soon as I could. No, I don't have an out-of-office automatic reply set up, because I had never needed it before. I simply did not have time to send her an email earlier than I did. I had classes of my own, a super-long paper to write, and other finals to give (for the people that waited until a week after the final to inform me that they had missed it).

Also like MarySue33, I am a student. I am getting a Master's degree in Biology. I understand that the undergrad was stressed. That doesn't excuse rude behavior, especially when your instructor is doing something that they aren't required to do. You see, technically, I am not supposed to even discuss grades through email. Unless they come to me in my office, they shouldn't even be finding out what they made in lab until their biology grade is posted on the internet. Heck, I can't even discuss their grades with their parents unless the student signs a waiver.

Also I must say that if I were your student, and I came across this thread (murphy's law) I would report your comments to your superiors. It isnt cool to question your students' intellegence in so callous a manner and in such a public forum, with your picture next to it, not to mention the cut/paste from her private email. She may not be patient and she may be just a student but she is still a person and is thusly deserving of a modicum of respect and privacy.

And I would tell her to feel free to do so, since I am not doing anything wrong. I did not identify the student, the class, or the university, so I didn't violate her privacy. I wouldn't even get a lecture from my supervisor. And it is better than doing it to her face. Even that wouldn't get me any punishment, though, as long as I didn't assault her. You see, my supervisor knows me. He knows that, as a rule, I am very nice to people. He would wonder how I got to the point of insulting people to their faces. And I think if he knew the student was basically harassing me through email, he would understand. And that is what is happening, if you send 4 emails to someone in less than 3 days. Heck, it was actually less than two days, since she sent the first on late Monday and the last around noon on Wednesday.

Cut her a little slack, just because you know that her grade is what it is doesnt mean that she knows that. Secondly (this is to all educators and administrators in pedegogical settings), if its so unimportant why was it given?

She should know it by now. I would think it is obvious that knowing what your grade is won't change the actual grade. If she made an F, she will still have made an F whether or not she actually knows she did. And the final was important. It was worth 25% of their lab grade, which in turn was worth 1/3 of their entire lecture grade.

Maybe I am just more well adjusted than a lot students. I don't know. But I still think that people should have learned that nagging doesn't get you far by the age of 10. They should definitely know it by the time they get into college.

DevilMayKare · December 10, 2006

You see, my supervisor knows me. He knows that, as a rule, I am very nice to people.

Sounds like you're TOO nice to me!

Seriously, I wonder if that student would bother you like that if you'd been a male teacher? In my years of college the men were often much tougher than the women--and they didn't suffer a moment of guilt about it! Jack's reply is a typical male prof attitude and, personally, I think it's a good one. I had one prof at UCSB that had the lecture hall doors LOCKED on the exact hour class started. You better believe no one was showing up late to his lectures by a week into the quarter. As people disruptively trickled in 5-10-20 and even halfway thru other classes I found myself wishing more instructors followed his example.

To the current distressed student on here (sorry, I'll lose this if I go back to find your name)... please note most of us responding have been college students. We know the stress you're under. Your entire self-worth should no more be dependent on your grades than on your weight. I'm not saying they're not important but there are many things more important in life. I mean this sincerely, please try to keep your true priorities in mind. My ex graduated from Caltech in the 70's when there were THREE suicides on campus in ONE year. Some very brilliant young minds were literally destroyed by their emotions and inability to cope with the stress of their education.

Part of being young is feeling like misery you're feeling is going to last forever. A big advantage of age is knowing things WILL change. That Biology test you wanted to kill yourself over in your past is relagated to a little blip along the way in your future. Failures are there to LEARN from. That's all they are--learning experiences. Your friends, your family, your health and your ability to cope with life's tragedies (& believe me, there will be bigger ones than a bad grade) are what really matter.

kwhenrykerr · December 10, 2006

It sounds like you gave in and now the rest of us will need to put up with another brat. Teaching is to improve someone, I would have told her that she flunked. When her grade was released along with all the others she could quit being upset. Maybe that would teach her something about getting along with others...

chocolate_snaps · December 10, 2006

As a 26 year old Non-Trad-Undergrad who has worked as and educator, administrator, mentor, and de facto social worker at 2 very underpriviledged High Schools in NYC for 4+ years, I believe that I too am approaching this matter with more maturity than an 18-22 year old undergrad. I understand that Professors are people to, I intend to become one, but as a student I am saddened.

The real matter is whether or not flaming and publicly ridiculing a student with a private communication (meant only for the eyes of her teacher) is a proper course of conduct for an educator, the ethical concerns are apparent.

Secondly, familiarity with ones direct superior wont or shouldnt protect anyone from the Employee or Student Code of Conduct. These codes usually extend to outside of the campus, including the internet. These usually have very broad ethics codes which frown on "behaviour unbecoming" of a faculty/student/staff member.

Thirdly, just because the student and the school are unidentified dose not remove the professional integrity that an educator should exibit.

We shouldnt do certain things because they are wrong, not because someone may find out.

I see that this board has the potential to become like the "stop having babies" board, mean. So, I am extracting myself from this discussion.

skyeblu79 · December 10, 2006

I have been on both sides of the equation.

As a student, I would never send an e-mail that rude to my professor. That was tacky. At the same time, as a student I notice that some of my professors have the attitude basically, "I've got mine (degree), I don't care if you get yours. That really burns me up. Grad school is a lot different and most professors understand why we need our grades by a certain deadline. I had some great professors in UG, but professors in grad school are a lot more respectful of their students.

As a high school teacher (different from university level), my student would have been chewed out. They might have been scared to send me another e-mail. I would have taken the time to get the kid the grade though..Unless I didn't have time to check the e-mail, I didn't have the papers with me, or there was something more pressing going on.

anonemouse · December 10, 2006

The real matter is whether or not flaming and publicly ridiculing a student with a private communication (meant only for the eyes of her teacher) is a proper course of conduct for an educator, the ethical concerns are apparent.
Secondly, familiarity with ones direct superior wont or shouldnt protect anyone from the Employee or Student Code of Conduct. These codes usually extend to outside of the campus, including the internet. These usually have very broad ethics codes which frown on "behaviour unbecoming" of a faculty/student/staff member.

Thirdly, just because the student and the school are unidentified dose not remove the professional integrity that an educator should exibit.

We shouldnt do certain things because they are wrong, not because someone may find out.

Calling someone rude, whether online or not, does not violate any code of conduct. Now, if I actually told you her name, which class she was in, and the university she is at so that you could all go and laugh at her, that would be different. That would be a violation, then.

I'll post this again:

And I would tell her to feel free to do so, since I am not doing anything wrong. I did not identify the student, the class, or the university, so I didn't violate her privacy. I wouldn't even get a lecture from my supervisor. And it is better than doing it to her face. Even that wouldn't get me any punishment, though, as long as I didn't assault her. You see, my supervisor knows me. He knows that, as a rule, I am very nice to people. He would wonder how I got to the point of insulting people to their faces. And I think if he knew the student was basically harassing me through email, he would understand. And that is what is happening, if you send 4 emails to someone in less than 3 days. Heck, it was actually less than two days, since she sent the first on late Monday and the last around noon on Wednesday.

Unless I actually assaulted her or started called her names, I would not get punished for anything that I stated here. Calling someone rude, even to their face, is not worthy of punishment. Hell, if she had sent me another couple of emails, I could have made a complaint against her. Being a teacher doesn't mean you have to sit down and take whatever your students want to give you. There is no ethical concern here. If it had been an email where she identified herself or wrote about her concerns for the class, then I wouldn't have posted it.