Do we have a smiley for that? :eek:

I just got this email from a student of mine:

I've emailed you twice in the last two days and have gotten no response. I would like to know what i made on my lab exam. Thanks

Followed up by yet another email. That makes 4 in 3 days. The second one had a time date of a minute after this one, so I think she tried to stop it from going out. I basically told her that her instructors happen to have lives, just like her. They have classes to take, papers to write, and finals to take. Not to mention lots and lots of freaking doctor's appointments. Nagging someone does not make them more likely to send a speedy response.

If I was mean, I would have waited another day or two to send her her grade. Unfortunately, I went ahead and looked through the exams and gave it to her.

I am going to be SO happy when this semester is over.:faint:

I run two businesses Laurend and I can't believe the gall of some of my customers/members. Its the ones who know me who take liberties and show no consideration at all. I have no days off from May to September, the real only day I have off is Sunday. Would you believe that I have customers calling me on Sunday to find out what Monday's dinner lunch or dinner feature is going to be....and it always starts off "I know its your day off and I shouldn't be bothering you BUT....." ....and, this is on my private line...then, I'll have a gym member contact me who also knows its my only day off and request something ridiculous......I think its time to change my number.

So....I guess we are NOT entitled to a private life or personal time......it amazes me how they feel a sense of ownership towards me and my time because every once in a while they might throw a few dollars my way through a membership or buying a meal.

Rant, rant, rant.......I have lots to say on this subject.

Carol

I'm with ya!

I used to be the assistent manager of an apt. complex. Staff lived on-site, and that had it's pros and cons.

I'll never forgot one night, about 9 PM at a nearby grocery store. A resident came up to me and asked about a co-worker of hers who was moving in. She didn't want to be close to the CW, because "She's one of those who would want to come over and talk about work. And when I'm off work, I don't want to have to think about it". I don't think she ever saw the irony as I stood there, 4 hours after my office had closed, trying to buy a few thing, listening to this...

Here is another one. I had a lady come into my restaurant (keep in mind she has never spent a cent in either of my businesses)....she asked if she could have a free dinner for two gift certificate for the prize table at her lady's golf tournament. I asked her what charity was being supported by the proceeds from the golf tournament.....well, of course there wasn't one. She was just trying to round up nice free prizes for her ladies.

I told her that because a charity was not involved that I would not support the tournament with a dinner certificate but I would give her a one month membership for the gym. She made arrangements with me twice to pick up the gift certificate at the gym and never showed. Then she showed up at the restaurant a few days later to pick up the gift certificate and I told her it was at the gym....where it was the first two times she stood me up. She got all upset and chewed me out for not having the foresight to have the certificate with me at both businesses just in case she did what she did that day and show up to the wrong business when it was convenient to HER.

I told her to forget it, that I had never witnessed such a display of inconsideration and unappreciation in my life and the next time she wants something for free she can totally forget both my businesses.

Whew.....that was a good rant....I feel 20 lbs lighter but how come my ass doesn't look any smaller?

Carol

Whew.....that was a good rant....I feel 20 lbs lighter but how come my ass doesn't look any smaller?

Carol

LOL-if ranting gave us smaller asses, I'd be tiny!!! :pound:

I'm not having much trouble with my students these days since I instituted my "Be rude to the professor and fail" policy. But people who are generally angry tend to take it out on people who are in public. So teachers get the brunt of a lot of anger that really isn't related to them at all. I think sales clerks get a lot of this. I have been nasty to sales clerks so I will now have to wear a hairshirt for the rest of my days. However, self-centered obnoxious people need to be told off. I'm glad you didn't donate anything to that woman's club. Ingrates do abound though.

I thought it was funny as I read the post how each of us react differently to things. I wondered how long did it take for you to look up her score? A couple minutes? And I wondered what kind of pressure she must be under to have that kind of concern over her grade. I have a daughter in her 2nd year of college - she is SO stressed out over her grades and I'm sure I don't make it any better when I start questioning her. She knows what she has to carry to get the job she wants and she gets stressed. And all the other posts - I do agree with all of you because I get calls at home from members where I work too - try being a bookeeper for a PRIVATE (rich, snotty, world revolves around me) club - after I was in the car accident and wasn't in for a week I had a lady call me at home and say why aren't you at work, we wanted to pay our bill! LOL yes I did laugh out loud - and I told her I broke my knee - she felt like a heel! But then this past week I've had 2 members call me and invite me to lunch.

It may take only a few minutes to look up the students score....but a few minutes of the teacher's "off" time.....so, when you set precidence and do it for one....then the word spreads and its not just one student infringing on the teacher's off time but more. Students, just like adults, need to understand and respect individual's private time....that is why timelines are scheduled.

Carol

laurend - I wouldn't have told that snotty lil hoe a damn thing. She can wait and get her grade like all the rest of them. AND I would have responded as such: "Student. I don't appreciate your tone. You'll know your grade with the rest of the class. Instructor." Screw her and her snotty entitled attitude.

I have the opposite problem with my staff. They sneak around me to do what they want. They leave work in the middle of the day without notifying me and get frustrated when I ask them to clear it with me first. I'm the new manager and "accountability" is lacking at the job. WTF? I can't leave w/out clearing it with my manager, why do they think it's okay? They call out of work with co-workers, not with me. I think that's funny. I don't care, I just want to clock their time appropriately.

Our secretary is one rude woman. She's called me on several occasions and talked to me as if she's scolding a child. The last time she called, she started the conversation by saying "Nathalie, this is Kathy. I want you to know I am very disappointed that you didn't tell us about Patrick's heart attack. We have worked with Patrick for many years, he's like family to us. We should have known immediately -" I said to her, "Kathy, I'm going to have to stop you right there. If Patrick wanted you to know about his heart attack, he would have called you himself. And I would appreciate it if you changed your tone of voice. Don't you ever talk to me like that again." We did continue our conversation - in a different manor. That woman is out of her flipping mind. She's been there for 30 years and thinks she's everyone's boss.

I hung up on a vendor when he told me I could have had the courtesy of calling him back. LOL I told him it wasn't my responsibility to call him back and hung up. THEN I called his boss and told his boss that guy better not EVER call me again, if they wanted our business, they would assign me a different sales person.

People are a trip. It is my pleasure to push back. Shit runs down hill, but it won't be dripping on me.

laurend I know that it must have been very annoying to you, but can you imagine the agony that poor girl is going through if she is bugging you so much to find out her grade. maybe her lab grade means the difference in failing or passing the lec. component. Finals are a time of a great number of nervous breakdowns, so much so that many schools have free psyc. screenings with great prizes for student that participate. I know it is very annoying but try to put yourself in her shoes. Goodluck with your finals.

....my response in such circumstance is something on THIS order:

"I have TWO speeds. If you don't like THIS one, you're really going to hate the OTHER one"....................

Once again, Jack gets the prize for BEST answer!

laurend I know that it must have been very annoying to you, but can you imagine the agony that poor girl is going through if she is bugging you so much to find out her grade.

I always told my sons that school--and even more certainly college--is about getting an education for LIFE and lots of what life is about is learning to play the game. Doing the busywork, paperwork, showing up on time and doing whatever--and jumping thru whatever hoops--that particular teacher requires to get a good grade is as much of what you're learning as the subject matter. Anyone who's been thru college knows it's sad but true that with some teachers it's even MORE about the stupid stuff than the subject matter. Over the years when my kids have complained about the teacher assigning something "stupid" they always get my lecture on "You think that seems crazy, wait until the REAL world!"

I would suggest that HANDLING STRESS PROPERLY is very much part of what that young woman should be learning. Giving in to her pleas just teaches her that it WORKS and she will have no qualms about harassing other people in life that way. By giving her the grade on demand the teacher feels abused and she has no reason not to abuse again. Much better to nicely point out that her grade will be posted along with everyone elses at your stated schedule & you were throwing in the lesson on patience for free.

BTW, my oldest graduated w/ honors from UCSC last June and is a "fellow" (basically, a paid intern) for a state assemblyman in Sacramento. He's helping to prepare and pass state legislation where his education in "learning to play the game" will serve him well!

laurend I know that it must have been very annoying to you, but can you imagine the agony that poor girl is going through if she is bugging you so much to find out her grade. maybe her lab grade means the difference in failing or passing the lec. component.

I can understand that. The thing is, it won't change her grade. She should be putting the same effort into her lecture final whether or not she is failing the lab. By this time, her grade is what it is, and her freaking out over it isn't going to change it.

It is just like the people that want to make-up exams or other work. They don't seem to understand that their instructor isn't usually required to let them make stuff up. If you ask someone to let you make an assignment or test up, you try to fit into their schedule. You don't make them jump through hoops to find a time where you aren't in work or another class.

I would suggest that HANDLING STRESS PROPERLY is very much part of what that young woman should be learning. Giving in to her pleas just teaches her that it WORKS and she will have no qualms about harassing other people in life that way. By giving her the grade on demand the teacher feels abused and she has no reason not to abuse again. Much better to nicely point out that her grade will be posted along with everyone elses at your stated schedule & you were throwing in the lesson on patience for free.

I know, I should have told her that I would send her her grade when I felt like it. But this was the first time I had ever had anyone be that inconsiderate of me as an instructor and I wasn't sure how to deal with it. Plus, I have enough other stuff to do this weekend that I didn't feel like continuing to deal with her as well.

It kinda makes me wonder about people's intelligence sometimes, though. I mean, really. Doesn't it just make sense that nagging or otherwise irritating or pissing off the person that controls your grade might not be the best idea? Or does it not occur to some people? One of my friends that also is a lab instructor had one of his students make a smart remark to him about how it was a good thing he gave them course evaluations to fill out BEFORE he gave them that day's quiz. He was quick to remind her that there were still enough quizes left in the semester that he could completely ruin her lab score if she really wanted him to. Of course, this is the same guy that took a guy's cell phone away from him, told the person on the other end that he would have to call them back, hung up, gave back the phone, and threw the guy out of his lab for the day.

Lauren...do I hear you!!

I am a recruiter and I have run into the same types of situations with candidates. It's not about reducing the stress of the candidate or the student -- it is about them learning that there is a fine line between being interested and concerned vs. being obnoxious and pushy.

I am the queen of customer service and when the situation warrants it, you can be certain that I will go out of my way to be helpful. However, I also see it as a way to discern which candidates have good judgement and which are going to be high maintenance, PITA (my acronym for pains in the arse) employees.

One of my best examples...

Two years ago I had a candidate who was driving me absolutely nuts. I had been extremely patient with her and had assured her that she would have an interview just as soon as I could schedule it with the hiring manager (who happened to be off-site at a meeting for two days). I had TOLD the candidate that I would get back to her within 72 hours with a response re: her interview time. She found 'excuses' to call me 3 times within about 3 hours and I had had enough of her -- especially since I had assured her during the first two calls that the best way to get her questions answered would be to prepare a list (as in -- ask them all in one phone call and please don't dial me every time another thought comes into your head) and to bring them to her interview.

She continued to call and I finally stopped answering her. She was relentless and called the corporate office. I got a call from my boss' secretary just before noon that day and she said, "Mary...I know that you always follow up with candidates right away, but Ms. So and So says you are not returning her calls."

I said, "She's right...if she means the four times she has called me since I spoke with her at 9:30 this morning after the four times I spoke with her since yesterday afternoon!"

It happens all the time. I always let the hiring managers know about this type of behavior when I schedule the interview. If this is how they are behaving when they are trying to impress us...just think what they'll be like once they don't think they have to impress us anymore.

I understand anxiety -- whether it is a student waiting for a grade or a candidate waiting for an interview -- but part of it is the fact that there are an awful lot of this current generation of kids (raised by my age group, I am embarrassed to say) who have never been told 'no' or who have never had to wait for anything less than instant gratification. They whine and stomp their little feet and call mommy and daddy who have bowed to their little darlings wishes forever and don't know how to stop now. It's kind of like watching the kids on those SuperNanny or Nanny911 shows 10 years fast forward. Ugh!

I see it all the time with candidates; Laurend sees it all the time with students, I'm sure; you can see it every year during the early stages of American Idol when kids who obviously are not going to be stars have been told by their mommies that they have talent when they have no more singing talent than I do. We have spent so much time working so hard not to hurt their precious little self-esteems that we have not told them 'no' or even 'wait'. We have not taught them that they need to observe proper boundaries, use good judgement and to follow proper protocol. It's part of growing up.

Yep...this is a definite rant...but it is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Now from the other side:

As an undergrad who is currently losing her hair, sleep, good complexion and patience with the world because it is final time, I feel for your student. Cut her a little slack, just because you know that her grade is what it is doesnt mean that she knows that. Secondly (this is to all educators and administrators in pedegogical settings), if its so unimportant why was it given? That is just sadistic. Thirdly, that little lab exam may be important to HER, she may hinge her whole identity and self worth on what her grades are. As an educator you know the pressure she and your other students are under, its the most stressful time of the year and their lives.

Also I must say that if I were your student, and I came across this thread (murphy's law) I would report your comments to your superiors. It isnt cool to question your students' intellegence in so callous a manner and in such a public forum, with your picture next to it, not to mention the cut/paste from her private email. She may not be patient and she may be just a student but she is still a person and is thusly deserving of a modicum of respect and privacy.

This comes from a student who goes to a school where EVERYONE hinges his/her self worth on measly quiz grades the same as huge exams.

And in her defense you never got back to her.

Im sorry if this comes off as a negative post but I really think that this board is going a little too far. I hope that it is understood that I dont mean this as a personal attack. It is in defense of that student who could be anyone of us. Honestly if I were she, Id be inconsolable.

One of my pet peeves is people who don't respond to emails. I deliberately have an auto-response on my email all the time, indicating that I am away from my desk and if this is urgent to please call such-and-such. That way if I don't respond right away, they've been warned that it might not happen promptly.

It might be that this student wondered if you had received or read her email and part of her frustration had to do with your lack of response. If you had responded to any of her emails, even the last one, with "Thank you for your email. It is my policy to disclose all grades in such-and-such a way on such-and-such a date; for privacy reasons I don't email grades." (or something along those lines) it might have shut her up. If someone doesn't know for sure if you've received their emails, they might send over and over again because of it because emails do go astray and get buried in inboxes. KWIM?