Skany Evil Repulsive Patient Coordinators

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

OMG, I am so sick of patient coordinators. They post here under so many IDs one would swear they change their underwear less often than they change their IDs. When we catch them red handed with various IDs they just stop using those IDs and create more!

I even received a PM from one of them asking me not to post her doc's stats. I suppose it makes him look bad but 4% erosion will do that considering global stats are 1.3%. This same doc claims to "cure" erosion with Proton Pump Inhibitors and he backs his claims up with a self funded study. That's like putting antibiotic cream on your nose to cure a toothache. Nexium, Protonix, and those types of drugs are NOT going to cure erosion but it can put off treatment until there is enough damage done to the stomach to harm the patient. It can't work and it doesn't work.

These people have no problems faking posts, pretending to be unhappy patients of other doctors, spreading links around with half truths and misinformation, but if one dares to post the FACTS of their own employer, you'd think the world was coming to an end.

Ever since Lauren and I did the "Researching Mexican Doctors 101" thread they chase me around like a neurotic yapping 4# Poodle stuck to my ankle. Sometimes it's annoying but other times I know we did a good job on that thread and it makes me smile to see how they have responded. It irritates them to see people learning what questions to ask, how to see who is dodging information, and how to research.

What really blows my mind above and beyond all is why in the world would anyone work for a doc, or why would any patient refer another person to a doc with horrible stats? Why would anyone NOT want people to research and find the best doc for them? I don't get it. Where is the bond fat people have to take good care of one another? To specifically ask me not to post the stats of a doc because it makes him look bad, how horrible is that? What kind of a jackass does it take to want to hide information like that from potential patients?

Yet these same people do anything they can to trash the good docs. I suppose if they worked for a quality surgeon with actual experience vs. the "claimed" experience, they wouldn't have to trash the good docs to make their silly, 4% erosion stat doc look good.

I guess the almighty dollar speaks loud and clear and certainly carries more weight than someone getting a safe surgery. It just seems like here, above and beyond any other place, we should be supporting people and helping them to find good docs. Not worrying about $$.

These people even started a new thread when I posted their doc's stats because they claimed I "ruined" it by posting FACTS.

Is it $$? Is it denial? Is it shame for not doing their own research before their own surgery? WTH?

People still continue to amaze me. I hate patient coordinators. They make used car salesmen named Honest Ernie look like Gods in comparison.

[She Smiles 2]

Money talks. I bet they work on commissions and by telling the truth they probably think that you are ruining their chances at an extra few bucks. Keep on with the good fight Wasa!

[Oregondaisy 2,019]

Keep up the good work! Maybe you can put them out of business!

[transformer 1]

Stupid question of the day: How do you know who is a patient coordinator and who isn't?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Stupid question of the day: How do you know who is a patient coordinator and who isn't?

Patient coordinators do things such as:

~Start threads about their doc and do anything to keep it going even if it means posting about the weather just to keep it bumped to the top.

~As soon as the least bit negative fact is written about their doc they cry, scream, stomp their feeties, claim you have ruined their thread and start a new one so the newbies won't see the facts.

~They create new IDs and come back trashing the "good" docs. We caught one of them doing it so she came back with ALLLLL new IDs.

~They don't admit there is the least little thing negative about their doc.

~They make it a point to post their email address so you can email them personally and get more info. That way they have more reason to talk to you in detail and provide you with a website address.

~They are sure not to say anything positive about another doc. You will never see them saying "Dr. X is as good as my doctor." No other doctor is as good as theirs.

~When they create new IDs and trash other docs they run around reposting the link to other threads to make sure everyone sees someone trashing another doc. It's a great scare technique for newbies.

~They create lots of IDs to pretend like they are happy patients. In reality, there are few people posting but many many IDs.

~They don't push independent research, they'll do your research for you. (That's key)

~Many of the newbie IDs gravitate back to a single doc. After they post an untrue story about one doc they change IDs, read their original "trashing" post, and proclaim THEY aren't going to THAT doc, they are going to the other doc, the "better" doc.

~They hide facts and stats about their own doc. Their idea of a "good" surgeon is someone that was nice to them. Nice does NOT mean SKILLED. They will talk about how they felt like family, they were treated sooo well, they were not afraid in Mexico at all, they act as though surgery was actually a party. My neighbor is nice, doesn't mean I'd want him to operate on me. Why not post the facts? The experience? (True experience, not inflated numbers to make someone look more experienced than they are) The stats? The affiliations? Instead, they talk about how nice he is.

~They assume their doc is best for you. Their doc may not be best for you, no single doc is the best for the whole world. People have different needs, they have different preferences, they prefer different locations. But they will ALWAYS push THEIR doc and only their doc. Do you pimp for your doc or do you assume he can do his own advertising? I mean, did you pay your doc many thousands of dollars so you could spend your time advertising for him? Or is he the one that needs to provide services that you paid for? The only reason to pimp for a doc is to earn a kickback.

~They will average stats vs. pointing out individual stats to hide a bad one. Instead of saying x% slips, x% erosion, x% infection they will average them all out to a single number to hide one of the stats that look bad because it IS bad.

~They jump into threads and comment about how wonderful their doc is. I mean, if I am asked I will tell people what they want to know about my doc but I don't run from thread to thread explaining he's soooo nice and a "leading" surgeon. Again, my MD can do his own advertising.

I have seen something since before I was banded. Newbies... they are absolutely in love with their doc. They have had a huge problem (obesity) for a very long time and they have been frustrated, humiliated, embarrassed, annoyed, and angry that they couldn't manage to fix it on their own. Right after surgery they finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and they know their doc was able to fix this for them. They are dearly indebted and in love with their doc. With time they get beyond the honeymoon stage and realize that we all have the same problem and all our docs did the same thing for us. Surgery. They aren't Gods and they simply know how to wrap a band around your stomach. That's all. With time they figure this out.

I have no problem with the usual patient coordinators, I don't like the big fat liars who either pretend to be banded when they aren't so they can sell an MD and make $$ or they are indeed patients and they get a fee for referring others to their physician. There is a place for patient coordinators, that SHOULD be in an office answering questions and telling you the truth, their job is to sell a given physician. If their physician is any good they should be able to list off all the facts, stats, experience, etc. about that person vs. trashing every single other doctor to make theirs look good. If someone does get a fee for referring people to their doc, shouldn't they be honest about that? Why hide it?

Don't misunderstand, I now have four Mexican doctors on my list of "evil" that I wouldn't send my worst enemy to. But that leaves the majority that are good, caring, skilled, and experienced physicians that people should go to if they so desire.

There is one person here that doesn't like my (sig link) post. So she added a post to her own sig that is from my thread. If people read that they will avoid digging for dirt. IOW, she didn't want people reading my post because it encourages research and shows how to do it vs. depending on others to do it for you. Why not show people how to do their own research? What's the horror in that? There are MANY MANY (majority) good Mexican docs. So why only push one? Why not show people how to avoid the bad doctors vs. only going to one doctor? The really bad ones are the minority.

There is one doctor with a 4% erosion statistic. There are two docs known for sending people home with life threatening infections. They place bands incorrectly and upon returning to the US they have to have their bands removed. Then there is a 4th who doesn't suture the band in place. Keeping in mind that sutures only hold the band in place short term and the body will produce scarring to hold it in place long term, he figures if someone follows the post op diet they won't slip because the scaring will happen and the band will stay in place. So he doesn't suture it to the stomach. Until last night I didn't know there WAS a physician that failed to suture the band into place.

Shouldn't we be helping people to avoid doctors like this vs. encouraging them to go to someone who isn't all that great just because of a stupid commission?

I just get frustrated, we should be helping newbies, not lining our own pockets.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Thank you, Jack.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[transformer 1]

Wasa--Thanks so much for sharing the information with us!

[pippinje 0]

Wasa,

Is it possible to start a thread and list those who are patient coordinators? Maybe make it a sticky? IMO patient coordinators should have to identify themselves as such to begin with.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Wasa,

Is it possible to start a thread and list those who are patient coordinators? Maybe make it a sticky? IMO patient coordinators should have to identify themselves as such to begin with.

We caught them with other IDs and as soon as we pointed the IDs out on the boards they just stopped using them and changed to all new ones.

If the newbies knew who they were they couldn't lie to them anymore so they wouldn't keep those IDs.

I believe they are supposed to identify themselves, or not post, or something. I remember reading something somewhere.

If their docs were any good the docs could afford to advertise for themselves.

[kansas sooner 0]

We caught them with other IDs and as soon as we pointed the IDs out on the boards they just stopped using them and changed to all new ones.

If the newbies knew who they were they couldn't lie to them anymore so they wouldn't keep those IDs.

I believe they are supposed to identify themselves, or not post, or something. I remember reading something somewhere.

If their docs were any good the docs could afford to advertise for themselves.

If people on this board would just be honest, it would make it agreat place. I would think should be the sight for good, specific and correct information, so each and every person that searches for a way to get themselves healthy, they could find it and not be afraide of loosing their band, or even more importantly their life due to some yayhoo.

It would also be nice to be able, if like i was eager to make a change and needed "help" in the research due to my time schedule, would be able to come here and know that a coordinator was not going to send me to their "shoddy" doc so they could make some extra Christmas cash. It is still amazing to me they could put a small price on someones life. Even if i didn't some one i could never do this to them. So like the ones above, thank you for your continued diligence, and continued dedication. We appreciate you!!! :clap2::clap2:

[Zitro 0]

Nasty, evil, wicked Patient Coordinators, they lurk among us, sometimes showing their nasty little heads from within the shadows!

But thanks to this thread, there is still hope for the weak and the misinformed!

They have US to defend them!

Yes thanks to:

Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part One.

And how to spot them!

*The examples provided are actual quotes found on lapbandtalk, provided by actual banders who want readers to believe they have no real interest in selling their doctor. Study them well and soon you too will be able to spot a lap band salesperson a mile away.

Type one: “The Awestruck”

This type of coordinator wants everyone to know the tender side of their doctor as well as how incredibly capable and gifted he is and is very willing to share. One LBT member-slash-? Describes them best: “They will talk about how they felt like family, they were treated sooo well, they were not afraid in Mexico at all, they act as though surgery was actually a party.” Examples:

“..I love his staff…. He put me at ease right away."

“The whole staff did.”

“I really like him. He is a very sweet and compassionate man.”

“ Isn’t Dr. Ace**s great? Isn’t the hospital clean? I can’t imagine going anywhere else but him for this kind of surgery. I was there Saturday with a friend and she was shocked at the staff and how great the hospital was.”

“The hospital is very pretty.”

“If you want me to send you the “hospital experience” part of my journal I am happy to do so.”

“.. the really cool part of Dr. A***es is that when other docs throughout the country can’t handle a case because it is too tricky (such as a complicated revision) the other docs send the patient to him”

“Mexicali is great. The thing I like about it is that for a border town it’s really not bad at all. I walk around at night by myself and have no worries.” * *See appendix A at the end of this post.

Oh, but “as soon as the least bit negative fact is written about their doc they cry, scream, stomp their feeties” . Example:

“…I’m not going to let you trash, post and repost the same half truths for my own doc…”

Type two: “The Two Face”

Tends to be the sneakiest using deception, heads on one side, tails on the other, example:

Will say things like:

“I decided a long time ago my surgeon can do his own advertising.”

“Again, my MD can do his own advertising.” And:

“This is supposed to be a support board, not one to use for freebie advertising by patient coordinators. Patient coordinators need to go back under their rocks where they belong and leave this board to banded folks or folks researching WLS options.”

Then after saying the above they’ll turn around, hunt down anyone asking about where to have surgery and do the complete opposite by throwing a full blown advertising and sales pitch in their face, example:

“I love his staff. If you are at all interested in getting info I would email N**a directly. She’s the person that is in charge over there. She runs the show. She’s a doll, I think you would like her. Her email address is:

N**a@yahoo.com

She can give you more details. I know that since J&J is giving the docs a break on the cost of the band they are passing on the savings to the patients but I don’t know exact fees. She can give that all to you. They usually charge $8200, I got it for $7800 last December. They were running a special. Nobody wants to be banded over the holidays ;o) so they give people a bit of a break, I assume because business is so slow throughout Christmas and New Year. But if you are banded before 1/1/08 it is a much better break with the J&J discount. I *think* it is around $7300 but don’t hold me to that. I’m not positive.

I believe the number of J&J bands they have at this price is limited so I would contact N**a now and verify if what I am telling you is correct. I could be way off. Most of the Mexican docs are passing on the savings to patients. I have yet to see a US doc pass on the savings they are getting. LOL”

Note key phrases, common sales techniques used by coordinators disguised as “ know it all” patients:

“She's a doll, I think you would like her. Her email address is: N**a@yahoo.com” (the contact, it can’t be her, too obvious)

“Running a special” (the pitch)

“Because business is slow” (why you’ll save)

“Passing on the savings” (again, classic technique)

“But if you are banded before 1/1/08”, (the pressure is on for you to buy, the sense of urgency)

“Price is limited, so contact N*na now” (the clincher, demanding immediate action)

The Two Face when confronted will defend herself and will often say things like:

“[patient coordinators…]….assume their doc is best for you. Their doc may not be best for you, no single doc is the best for the whole world.”

“ Your doc isn't a perfect fit for everyone, my doc isn't a perfect fit for everyone…”

“After you have been here a while it isn't hard to spot them [“coordinators”]. They are always pushing their doc as though their doc is the best fit for every person.”

However, as a true Two Face, when asked by an unsuspecting newbie on a different thread will turn around and say completely the OPPOSITE to make a sale:

“Dr. A***es and Dr. Ru****t are excellent surgeons, either one can do a fantastic job for just about anyone.”

“To be honest, they are both quite good and either would be a good doctor for you.”

*Note how in the above recommendation the second choice will always be conveniently 3000 miles from her own doctor, there will never be a recommendation to a second choice doctor near hers; that would cut into her profits.

Type Three: “The Socrates”

Named after the Greek philosopher who said “As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.”

This coordinator -slash- know it-all band patient knows so much, yet conveniently knows little. This type you really have to look out for, because this type claims to know absolutely everything about all other doctors based on actual research when in reality her “research” consists mainly of rumors, gossip, innuendo and hearsay. She will say things like: “I want people to research their surgeons, know their track records… their history, their background, their EVERYTHING!” but when it comes to her own doctor, no matter how critical the information may be, details are always conveniently hazy so it’s not too obvious she’s selling him. Examples:

About other doctors, notice how at the end she very gently steers the unsuspecting newbie to Mexico, and we all know to what doctor in Mexico. She bites her lip and avoids saying “A****s” because then she wouldn’t be giving “wholesome advice” but instead she would be SELLING:

“It ranges but AZ is not the cheapest, Denver is. If you need to stay in the US I'd check out Dr. K*********m. I haven't heard anything negative about him. He now has the experience in banding and it's a pretty good option. It's $9950 then travel, hotel, etc. I think Mona was looking at $12K total.

It would actually be closer for you to go to Mexico. And cheaper.”

But about her own doctor, since she doesn’t want to appear too eager to sell him, details are always a little hazy:

“I *think* it is around $7300 but don't hold me to that. I'm not positive.”

“..he's done 1500 or 1600 bands, I forget which.”

“I don't really know how many bypasses, revisions, and sleeves he's done, but he does quite a few.”

“…they are passing on the savings to the patients but I don't know exact fees.”

“..price is limited so I would contact N**a now and verify if what I am telling you is correct. I could be way off.”

The above quotes come from someone that knows it all, mind you, someone that routinely takes patients to her doctor.

In review, some clues to look out for when trying to spot these SKANY evil-doers:

“I'm not positive”

“I forget which.”

“I don't really know”

“I don't know exact fees.”

“I could be way off.”

Be very, very careful with this type of “coordinator”.

The type three (Socrates) leads everyone to believe that information is her number one strength:

“Actually, I pride myself on reading a gazillion journal articles and studies. I read them daily. So yep, I do keep up with stats”

Yet when asked about her sources for critical information will provide disappointing responses, showing her lack of REAL research:

“While I fully agree with you that Inamed could well fudge on the numbers, I have nothing else to use for stats.”[/color]

Any self-respecting researcher knows that a single source of information may not be as trustworthy as several sources, and even then, the researcher must use common sense and his or her experience on the subject to be able to draw conclusions of any value.

Type Four: The “Nonono, it was the patient’s friken fault, not my godly doc’s fault”

This type of patient “coordinator” is also known as the “NIWTPFFNMGDF”. This type will always swear that all of her doctor’s complicated cases were due to the PATIENT’S STUPIDITY and will make ridiculous stories involving the first thing that comes to mind just to blame it on the patient. For every one of her doctor’s many botched operations she will make up a convenient story. God forbid her doc’s negligence or greed had anything to do with it. Examples:

“My own doc had a patient who had bypass and less than 24 hours after surgery his wife decided to sneak in Mickey D's for him to eat (sure, sneaked in burgers, please!). Well, he ripped out staples, got a leak, and an infection. The doc took him back to OR and fixed it (just like that, presto!). Didn't even charge the patient for the additional surgery or hospital days. (Why did he not charge him, especially after such flagrant stupidity? ) She was running around posting on message boards what a horrible doc my doc is because her husband got an infection”

Another example of the NIWTPFFNMGDF tactics:

“there was a patient that had surgery, she was told not go take tub baths or go swimming for "X" number of weeks. Four days after having surgery she went swimming in a public pool and one of her incisions became infected. She went posting to everyone telling them she got an infection and blamed her doc. She didn't tell the rest of the story until later and turns out, she went swimming in a public pool where people urinate in the pool.”

They will even come up with excuses for more tragic events, even blaming a patient for her own demise:

“it was not an infection that happened but heart failure. Ever meet a person that has a LONG heart history and without weight loss they will have more heart problems and more heart attacks? How many heart attacks can a person have?”

The type four patient coordinator is the second lowest type. While it is known throughout the world that all doctors have patients with complications at one time or another, the type four WILL NEVER admit her doctor ever being wrong or to have ever made a mistake. For this type, type four, her doctor is a close to God ($$$) as it gets.

Type Five: “Yes, doctor X is also as good as my doctor, as good mind you, because there is none better!”.

This type is on the prowl for a potential newbie’s geographic location. She is a master of her craft and knows that for a potential newbie, geographic location is often a deciding factor because it has a direct bearing on travel expenses. She will conveniently avoid trashing and may even say one or two good things about a doctor located 3,000 miles from hers. She knows perfectly well that a doctor 3,000 miles from her doctor is geographically no competition, thereby keeping her little gold mine safe. Examples:

“Dr. A****s and Dr. R*****t are excellent surgeons, either one can do a fantastic job for just about anyone.”

“Dr. R*****t is wonderful. Very experienced and skilled surgeon.”

“He's in Monterrey, a few hours into Mexico.”

“Personal opinion only, I think you made a very great decision. You clearly went to one of the two best surgeons in Mexico. You obviously did your research.”

She may try at times to cover up the fact that she sells for her doctor by very briefly mentioning maybe one other doctor near hers, for appearances sake. She will however indirectly trash this doctor behind a smoke screen, just to be on the safe side. Example:

“I don't stand by and let Ortiz get trashed without sticking up for him” because she can trash him herself, notice the subtlety used in blasting Ortiz:

“There is little contact with Dr. Ortiz. You get surgery and staff typically do the follow up - according to his patients. Me? I prefer a more hands on approach to my medical care. If I return to Mexico for a problem or complication I want to see my surgeon. Period. Not the asst. surgeon, not the staff but my surgeon.”

“He is in a clinic vs. hospital. For any surgical procedure where general anesthesia is used it is MY OPINION that it is safer to be in a hospital. Stomach, liver, or spleen punctures are a risk, it happens. If someone throws a clot or has another type of complication it is better if they are in the hospital. However, with that said banding is pretty easy and not super complicated so complications... while they happen they are rare. I prefer to be in a fully equipped hospital with an OR, PACU, ICU, ER, etc. Ortiz rents the 2nd story of a medical office building. He put in two ORs, a few patient rooms, a nurses station……..”

“Dr. Ortiz does not do the entire procedure. The asst. surgeon opens you and prepares you for the band, Dr. Ortiz comes in, places the band, and moves on to the next patient. The Asst. Surgeon closes you. I personally prefer the same doc open, place the band, and close me. Less chance of problems. This is why he can do 10 procedures a day vs. the 4-5 other docs do when the other docs do the entire procedure.”

“Dr. Ortiz no longer does follow up. I agree with another poster that we are not children in need of constant supervision but that isn't what follow up is all about. This is a new procedure to US and WE don't always know what is common, to be expected, and what is normal vs. what is a complication. When you are banded there are a LOT of new sensations, things feel different. It's nice to have someone that is there JUST to answer these questions. That's their full time job. They contact you and check up on you. It's nice and safer. You might be shocked at how many people don't want to "bother" the doctor so they assume whatever they are feeling is normal and to be expected. That gets many people in trouble.”

“Dr. Ortiz does not require two nights in the hospital, something that might have made a difference for your cousin [tragic outcome]. My doc requires two nights in a hospital vs. one night hospitalization and one night hotel. Having said that, US docs mostly do this procedure on an outpatient basis. When you wake up they shove you out the door.”

“He is arrogant. So what? Lots of docs are. Lots of non-MDs are arrogant, we are all different and unique individuals.”

In another post she drives it home:

"I'd be a lot more impressed with Dr. Ortiz if he actually did a bulk of the surgical procedure but he doesn't. When I look at a surgeon via reputation, I look at that surgeon, not the asst.”

Note: This type of “coordinator” is so involved in her job of selling her doctor that she will lose touch with reality . She is convinced that her readers are as stupid as mud. She believes that by garnishing her numerous negative comments about her competitor with occasional positive ones she is absolved of slamming and trashing Ortiz. It’s crafty, it’s subtle and it’s smart, but glazed over or not, it’s meant to detract potential patients from interest in Ortiz and by dropping one or two hints like “BUT my Doc requires this or that (which is better)” she steers interest toward her own flawless and perfect doctor A****s.

She will also spread horrific lies about neighboring cities if they are inconveniently close to her little gold mine, note that the city she mentions below is also where Ortiz works:

“There are lots of GREAT doctors in TJ, but the city is really very unsafe. They now have these little 11-12 year old gang bangers that come at you in groups and beat you up and rob you. People are complaining to the US Embassy all the time about being beaten, stripped naked (to see if you are hiding money,) and then robbed. People are kidnapped, credit cards & cell phones stolen... happens all the time. Per the Mexican Gov't TJ is one of the most dangerous cities in Mexico. That doesn't include the policemen that steal your money. It's a different world in TJ.”

“Lots of Great doctors in TJ” and yet she only mentions Ortiz. And even so, when Ortiz is not watching she will use great subtlety to whack him too, because even the great Ortiz is too close for comfort. As for TJ, well God help those poor “Tijuanans” because from what this type of “coordinator” is saying, their days are numbered at the hands of those mean and evil 11-12 year old gang bangers!

Appendix A

The deception used by many patient coordinators hiding behind lap band patients knows no boundaries:

Her claim about her doctor’s location is intended to sell both her doctor and the city where he works:

“Mexicali is great. The thing I like about it is that for a border town it's really not bad at all. I walk around at night by myself and have no worries.”

The above is of course a lie, the reality is much different. Since Mexicali is the capital of Baja California, rival drug cartels routinely hold battles for control of the city, often resulting in all out shootouts including high powered automatic weapons and even reports of Grenade launchers. Read this article recently published in a Southern California newspaper :

“An assassination attempt against a high-ranking Baja California official in Mexicali…..Carrillo said the attack could be a detriment to marketing for the city of Mexicali, but he said the shooting hasn’t altered his opinion of the border city. The shooting occurred about 9 a.m. Tuesday on a busy Mexicali roadway along the U.S.-Mexico border fence. Secretary of Public Safety Manuel Diaz Lerma was on his way to work as part of a caravan of vehicles that included his security officers. At one point, a massive barrage of ammunition was fired at the caravan over a six-block stretch, and Mexican state police suspect there were as many as 20 gunmen, though no arrests have been made. Lerma was not injured but three members of his security detail were wounded, two critically. High-powered weapons, including reports of a grenade launcher, were used in the attack….. “That is just staggering,” Grogan said, speaking of reports that 20 gunmen were involved. “I don’t know how you can downplay a small army willing to accomplish a goal. The magnitude of this is unbelievable. That is substantial firepower,” Grogan said. “This is just a step up of potential violence,” Grogan said of the shooting Tuesday. Camerina Geraldo was visiting one of her sons at the time of the shooting and said she had to take her high blood-pressure medication because of the fear she felt at the time. “I do not feel comfortable knowing that my children and grandchildren have no protection in situations like this,” Geraldo said.

She goes on proving her ignorance about Mexicali by saying:

“In Mexicali it is essentially a Medical Tourism town. They keep it up because if they don't, nobody will want to go there. There really isn't anything great to do. No beaches, etc. Just medical stuff. So if they don't treat Americans well, they won't have a great deal of business and they depend on us.”

When in reality, “medical tourism” does not even make a dent on the region’s economy; its dependence on Medical Tourism is non-existent. Read this article recently printed in an business publication :

“..along the U.S.-Mexico border in Mexicali, Silicon Border enables a cost-effective and competitive manufacturing alternative in North America for emerging and global companies. Improving upon the world's leading technology parks, the park's 15 square miles of world-class infrastructure and education will support the stringent requirements of the semiconductor, flat panel display, telecom, optoelectronic and biotechnology industries.

Calexico (on the U.S. side) and Mexicali are linked through a shared history, population, and environment. The most striking differences are related to the size of the cities. In 2000, Calexico had approximately 27,000 residents and the urban area of Mexicali had 600,000 - making Mexicali about 20 times as large as Calexico. The difference in numbers explains Calexico’s greater dependence on Mexicali, than vice versa. Baja California’s state capital is a very prominent and busy city with a lot of business activity. It has many industrial areas and the valley has plenty of agricultural developments, amidst being located in the desert. Even though Mexicali is located in the middle of a desert, irrigation systems have enabled it to produce agricultural products, and Mexicali is a well known cotton-producing area. Also, assembly-line factories are established there, creating jobs for thousands of people. The tourism industry is also prominent, as San Felipe beaches are within the municipality, hosting national and international tourism year-long.”

There are three other types of sneaky patient coordinators lurking among the innocent all over the internet but those types (type 6,7 and 8) will have to wait for [/i] Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part Two. Don’t miss it!

Part Two has even more quotes of universal doctor bashing for both U.S. and Mexico doctors, everyone is fair game and no one is safe from the type 8 “coordinator”, it’s chuck-full of Dr. A****s worship.

TPC for Dummies Part Two includes a chapter on how “Patient Facilitator” companies have formed alliances and how they work with these types of “coordinators” to pimp certain doctors, offering superior service before they take your money and never answering your phone calls after they’ve taken your money.

Also included are actual Quotes of one of these “coordinators” giving advice to a fourteen year old on how to research her insurance policy for lap band surgery coverage! Yes advising a fourteen year old to CALL her insurance company ! Here’s an excerpt:

“..call your insurance company and see if it is covered. If they say it is not then ask them where you would find the exclusion in your insurance policy. Then research the policy and verify for yourself that it is not covered. If they claim it is covered then ask where you will find that in your policy and verify that too.”

Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part Two. Coming Soon!

Note: This publication is 100% trustworthy because all quotes ARE REAL, I did do MY RESEARCH.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Great, another coordinator with a brand new ID that is angry because I pointed out how to research.

This is full of half truths, misquotes, and BS. Most of it is taken out of context.

You are so upset because I don't know the prices my doc is charging today, well guess what? I don't. I had my surgery a year ago. I also don't know what Ortiz is charging for the J&J band, I don't know what Rodriguez is charging, I don't know what ANY of them are charging and it's because I don't care. That is between their office and their patients. I care about the research.

I know what Kirshenbaum is charging because I just talked to Mona (a poster here) on a public thread about the topic and she just told me.

The 14 year old... you forgot the greater majority of that conversation. The way you posted it, amazingly it is quite different from the actual PUBLIC post. She asked if her insurance would cover the band. My FIRST suggestion to her was to talk to her parents. I also suggested she learn everything there is to know about the band. Then I responded to her question and gave her the information she was looking for. Why didn't you post that? Trying to make things appear differently from what they are?

You create a new ID just to come here and trash the concept of making sure people know what they are up against regarding patient coordinators. No wonder you are using ANOTHER fake ID.

I love it when patient coordinators are scared to death that the potential cash makers are going to dig and do their research. If you were anything less than a sleezy coordinator you would have used your actual ID. Not a play ID trashing the concept of research.

Yeah, if people ask me about my doc I respond and I tell them of my experiences. But *I* am not the one out there creating IDs to pretend my doc has patients that he doesn't. *I* am not the one starting threads about my doctor. *I* am not the one pushing everyone to go to my doc and only him. I am also not the one claiming my doctor is the only good one. I don't lie about his stats, I don't cover up information, I don't do anything of the sort.

That is you, isn't it?

I am amused that you put this much time into trashing the concept of research. Don't you have newbies to hunt down? Surgery to sell?

[pippinje 0]

Nasty, evil, wicked Patient Coordinators, they lurk among us, sometimes showing their nasty little heads from within the shadows!

But thanks to this thread, there is still hope for the weak and the misinformed!

They have US to defend them!

Yes thanks to:

Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part One.

And how to spot them!

*The examples provided are actual quotes found on lapbandtalk, provided by actual banders who want readers to believe they have no real interest in selling their doctor. Study them well and soon you too will be able to spot a lap band salesperson a mile away.

Type one: “The Awestruck”

This type of coordinator wants everyone to know the tender side of their doctor as well as how incredibly capable and gifted he is and is very willing to share. One LBT member-slash-? Describes them best: “They will talk about how they felt like family, they were treated sooo well, they were not afraid in Mexico at all, they act as though surgery was actually a party.” Examples:

“..I love his staff…. He put me at ease right away."

“The whole staff did.”

“I really like him. He is a very sweet and compassionate man.”

“ Isn’t Dr. Ace**s great? Isn’t the hospital clean? I can’t imagine going anywhere else but him for this kind of surgery. I was there Saturday with a friend and she was shocked at the staff and how great the hospital was.”

“The hospital is very pretty.”

“If you want me to send you the “hospital experience” part of my journal I am happy to do so.”

“.. the really cool part of Dr. A***es is that when other docs throughout the country can’t handle a case because it is too tricky (such as a complicated revision) the other docs send the patient to him”

“Mexicali is great. The thing I like about it is that for a border town it’s really not bad at all. I walk around at night by myself and have no worries.” * *See appendix A at the end of this post.

Oh, but “as soon as the least bit negative fact is written about their doc they cry, scream, stomp their feeties” . Example:

“…I’m not going to let you trash, post and repost the same half truths for my own doc…”

Type two: “The Two Face”

Tends to be the sneakiest using deception, heads on one side, tails on the other, example:

Will say things like:

“I decided a long time ago my surgeon can do his own advertising.”

“Again, my MD can do his own advertising.” And:

“This is supposed to be a support board, not one to use for freebie advertising by patient coordinators. Patient coordinators need to go back under their rocks where they belong and leave this board to banded folks or folks researching WLS options.”

Then after saying the above they’ll turn around, hunt down anyone asking about where to have surgery and do the complete opposite by throwing a full blown advertising and sales pitch in their face, example:

“I love his staff. If you are at all interested in getting info I would email N**a directly. She’s the person that is in charge over there. She runs the show. She’s a doll, I think you would like her. Her email address is:

N**a@yahoo.com

She can give you more details. I know that since J&J is giving the docs a break on the cost of the band they are passing on the savings to the patients but I don’t know exact fees. She can give that all to you. They usually charge $8200, I got it for $7800 last December. They were running a special. Nobody wants to be banded over the holidays ;o) so they give people a bit of a break, I assume because business is so slow throughout Christmas and New Year. But if you are banded before 1/1/08 it is a much better break with the J&J discount. I *think* it is around $7300 but don’t hold me to that. I’m not positive.

I believe the number of J&J bands they have at this price is limited so I would contact N**a now and verify if what I am telling you is correct. I could be way off. Most of the Mexican docs are passing on the savings to patients. I have yet to see a US doc pass on the savings they are getting. LOL”

Note key phrases, common sales techniques used by coordinators disguised as “ know it all” patients:

“She's a doll, I think you would like her. Her email address is: N**a@yahoo.com” (the contact, it can’t be her, too obvious)

“Running a special” (the pitch)

“Because business is slow” (why you’ll save)

“Passing on the savings” (again, classic technique)

“But if you are banded before 1/1/08”, (the pressure is on for you to buy, the sense of urgency)

“Price is limited, so contact N*na now” (the clincher, demanding immediate action)

The Two Face when confronted will defend herself and will often say things like:

“[patient coordinators…]….assume their doc is best for you. Their doc may not be best for you, no single doc is the best for the whole world.”

“ Your doc isn't a perfect fit for everyone, my doc isn't a perfect fit for everyone…”

“After you have been here a while it isn't hard to spot them [“coordinators”]. They are always pushing their doc as though their doc is the best fit for every person.”

However, as a true Two Face, when asked by an unsuspecting newbie on a different thread will turn around and say completely the OPPOSITE to make a sale:

“Dr. A***es and Dr. Ru****t are excellent surgeons, either one can do a fantastic job for just about anyone.”

“To be honest, they are both quite good and either would be a good doctor for you.”

*Note how in the above recommendation the second choice will always be conveniently 3000 miles from her own doctor, there will never be a recommendation to a second choice doctor near hers; that would cut into her profits.

Type Three: “The Socrates”

Named after the Greek philosopher who said “As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.”

This coordinator -slash- know it-all band patient knows so much, yet conveniently knows little. This type you really have to look out for, because this type claims to know absolutely everything about all other doctors based on actual research when in reality her “research” consists mainly of rumors, gossip, innuendo and hearsay. She will say things like: “I want people to research their surgeons, know their track records… their history, their background, their EVERYTHING!” but when it comes to her own doctor, no matter how critical the information may be, details are always conveniently hazy so it’s not too obvious she’s selling him. Examples:

About other doctors, notice how at the end she very gently steers the unsuspecting newbie to Mexico, and we all know to what doctor in Mexico. She bites her lip and avoids saying “A****s” because then she wouldn’t be giving “wholesome advice” but instead she would be SELLING:

“It ranges but AZ is not the cheapest, Denver is. If you need to stay in the US I'd check out Dr. K*********m. I haven't heard anything negative about him. He now has the experience in banding and it's a pretty good option. It's $9950 then travel, hotel, etc. I think Mona was looking at $12K total.

It would actually be closer for you to go to Mexico. And cheaper.”

But about her own doctor, since she doesn’t want to appear too eager to sell him, details are always a little hazy:

“I *think* it is around $7300 but don't hold me to that. I'm not positive.”

“..he's done 1500 or 1600 bands, I forget which.”

“I don't really know how many bypasses, revisions, and sleeves he's done, but he does quite a few.”

“…they are passing on the savings to the patients but I don't know exact fees.”

“..price is limited so I would contact N**a now and verify if what I am telling you is correct. I could be way off.”

The above quotes come from someone that knows it all, mind you, someone that routinely takes patients to her doctor.

In review, some clues to look out for when trying to spot these SKANY evil-doers:

“I'm not positive”

“I forget which.”

“I don't really know”

“I don't know exact fees.”

“I could be way off.”

Be very, very careful with this type of “coordinator”.

The type three (Socrates) leads everyone to believe that information is her number one strength:

“Actually, I pride myself on reading a gazillion journal articles and studies. I read them daily. So yep, I do keep up with stats”

Yet when asked about her sources for critical information will provide disappointing responses, showing her lack of REAL research:

“While I fully agree with you that Inamed could well fudge on the numbers, I have nothing else to use for stats.”[/color]

Any self-respecting researcher knows that a single source of information may not be as trustworthy as several sources, and even then, the researcher must use common sense and his or her experience on the subject to be able to draw conclusions of any value.

Type Four: The “Nonono, it was the patient’s friken fault, not my godly doc’s fault”

This type of patient “coordinator” is also known as the “NIWTPFFNMGDF”. This type will always swear that all of her doctor’s complicated cases were due to the PATIENT’S STUPIDITY and will make ridiculous stories involving the first thing that comes to mind just to blame it on the patient. For every one of her doctor’s many botched operations she will make up a convenient story. God forbid her doc’s negligence or greed had anything to do with it. Examples:

“My own doc had a patient who had bypass and less than 24 hours after surgery his wife decided to sneak in Mickey D's for him to eat (sure, sneaked in burgers, please!). Well, he ripped out staples, got a leak, and an infection. The doc took him back to OR and fixed it (just like that, presto!). Didn't even charge the patient for the additional surgery or hospital days. (Why did he not charge him, especially after such flagrant stupidity? ) She was running around posting on message boards what a horrible doc my doc is because her husband got an infection”

Another example of the NIWTPFFNMGDF tactics:

“there was a patient that had surgery, she was told not go take tub baths or go swimming for "X" number of weeks. Four days after having surgery she went swimming in a public pool and one of her incisions became infected. She went posting to everyone telling them she got an infection and blamed her doc. She didn't tell the rest of the story until later and turns out, she went swimming in a public pool where people urinate in the pool.”

They will even come up with excuses for more tragic events, even blaming a patient for her own demise:

“it was not an infection that happened but heart failure. Ever meet a person that has a LONG heart history and without weight loss they will have more heart problems and more heart attacks? How many heart attacks can a person have?”

The type four patient coordinator is the second lowest type. While it is known throughout the world that all doctors have patients with complications at one time or another, the type four WILL NEVER admit her doctor ever being wrong or to have ever made a mistake. For this type, type four, her doctor is a close to God ($$$) as it gets.

Type Five: “Yes, doctor X is also as good as my doctor, as good mind you, because there is none better!”.

This type is on the prowl for a potential newbie’s geographic location. She is a master of her craft and knows that for a potential newbie, geographic location is often a deciding factor because it has a direct bearing on travel expenses. She will conveniently avoid trashing and may even say one or two good things about a doctor located 3,000 miles from hers. She knows perfectly well that a doctor 3,000 miles from her doctor is geographically no competition, thereby keeping her little gold mine safe. Examples:

“Dr. A****s and Dr. R*****t are excellent surgeons, either one can do a fantastic job for just about anyone.”

“Dr. R*****t is wonderful. Very experienced and skilled surgeon.”

“He's in Monterrey, a few hours into Mexico.”

“Personal opinion only, I think you made a very great decision. You clearly went to one of the two best surgeons in Mexico. You obviously did your research.”

She may try at times to cover up the fact that she sells for her doctor by very briefly mentioning maybe one other doctor near hers, for appearances sake. She will however indirectly trash this doctor behind a smoke screen, just to be on the safe side. Example:

“I don't stand by and let Ortiz get trashed without sticking up for him” because she can trash him herself, notice the subtlety used in blasting Ortiz:

“There is little contact with Dr. Ortiz. You get surgery and staff typically do the follow up - according to his patients. Me? I prefer a more hands on approach to my medical care. If I return to Mexico for a problem or complication I want to see my surgeon. Period. Not the asst. surgeon, not the staff but my surgeon.”

“He is in a clinic vs. hospital. For any surgical procedure where general anesthesia is used it is MY OPINION that it is safer to be in a hospital. Stomach, liver, or spleen punctures are a risk, it happens. If someone throws a clot or has another type of complication it is better if they are in the hospital. However, with that said banding is pretty easy and not super complicated so complications... while they happen they are rare. I prefer to be in a fully equipped hospital with an OR, PACU, ICU, ER, etc. Ortiz rents the 2nd story of a medical office building. He put in two ORs, a few patient rooms, a nurses station……..”

“Dr. Ortiz does not do the entire procedure. The asst. surgeon opens you and prepares you for the band, Dr. Ortiz comes in, places the band, and moves on to the next patient. The Asst. Surgeon closes you. I personally prefer the same doc open, place the band, and close me. Less chance of problems. This is why he can do 10 procedures a day vs. the 4-5 other docs do when the other docs do the entire procedure.”

“Dr. Ortiz no longer does follow up. I agree with another poster that we are not children in need of constant supervision but that isn't what follow up is all about. This is a new procedure to US and WE don't always know what is common, to be expected, and what is normal vs. what is a complication. When you are banded there are a LOT of new sensations, things feel different. It's nice to have someone that is there JUST to answer these questions. That's their full time job. They contact you and check up on you. It's nice and safer. You might be shocked at how many people don't want to "bother" the doctor so they assume whatever they are feeling is normal and to be expected. That gets many people in trouble.”

“Dr. Ortiz does not require two nights in the hospital, something that might have made a difference for your cousin [tragic outcome]. My doc requires two nights in a hospital vs. one night hospitalization and one night hotel. Having said that, US docs mostly do this procedure on an outpatient basis. When you wake up they shove you out the door.”

“He is arrogant. So what? Lots of docs are. Lots of non-MDs are arrogant, we are all different and unique individuals.”

In another post she drives it home:

"I'd be a lot more impressed with Dr. Ortiz if he actually did a bulk of the surgical procedure but he doesn't. When I look at a surgeon via reputation, I look at that surgeon, not the asst.”

Note: This type of “coordinator” is so involved in her job of selling her doctor that she will lose touch with reality . She is convinced that her readers are as stupid as mud. She believes that by garnishing her numerous negative comments about her competitor with occasional positive ones she is absolved of slamming and trashing Ortiz. It’s crafty, it’s subtle and it’s smart, but glazed over or not, it’s meant to detract potential patients from interest in Ortiz and by dropping one or two hints like “BUT my Doc requires this or that (which is better)” she steers interest toward her own flawless and perfect doctor A****s.

She will also spread horrific lies about neighboring cities if they are inconveniently close to her little gold mine, note that the city she mentions below is also where Ortiz works:

“There are lots of GREAT doctors in TJ, but the city is really very unsafe. They now have these little 11-12 year old gang bangers that come at you in groups and beat you up and rob you. People are complaining to the US Embassy all the time about being beaten, stripped naked (to see if you are hiding money,) and then robbed. People are kidnapped, credit cards & cell phones stolen... happens all the time. Per the Mexican Gov't TJ is one of the most dangerous cities in Mexico. That doesn't include the policemen that steal your money. It's a different world in TJ.”

“Lots of Great doctors in TJ” and yet she only mentions Ortiz. And even so, when Ortiz is not watching she will use great subtlety to whack him too, because even the great Ortiz is too close for comfort. As for TJ, well God help those poor “Tijuanans” because from what this type of “coordinator” is saying, their days are numbered at the hands of those mean and evil 11-12 year old gang bangers!

Appendix A

The deception used by many patient coordinators hiding behind lap band patients knows no boundaries:

Her claim about her doctor’s location is intended to sell both her doctor and the city where he works:

“Mexicali is great. The thing I like about it is that for a border town it's really not bad at all. I walk around at night by myself and have no worries.”

The above is of course a lie, the reality is much different. Since Mexicali is the capital of Baja California, rival drug cartels routinely hold battles for control of the city, often resulting in all out shootouts including high powered automatic weapons and even reports of Grenade launchers. Read this article recently published in a Southern California newspaper :

“An assassination attempt against a high-ranking Baja California official in Mexicali…..Carrillo said the attack could be a detriment to marketing for the city of Mexicali, but he said the shooting hasn’t altered his opinion of the border city. The shooting occurred about 9 a.m. Tuesday on a busy Mexicali roadway along the U.S.-Mexico border fence. Secretary of Public Safety Manuel Diaz Lerma was on his way to work as part of a caravan of vehicles that included his security officers. At one point, a massive barrage of ammunition was fired at the caravan over a six-block stretch, and Mexican state police suspect there were as many as 20 gunmen, though no arrests have been made. Lerma was not injured but three members of his security detail were wounded, two critically. High-powered weapons, including reports of a grenade launcher, were used in the attack….. “That is just staggering,” Grogan said, speaking of reports that 20 gunmen were involved. “I don’t know how you can downplay a small army willing to accomplish a goal. The magnitude of this is unbelievable. That is substantial firepower,” Grogan said. “This is just a step up of potential violence,” Grogan said of the shooting Tuesday. Camerina Geraldo was visiting one of her sons at the time of the shooting and said she had to take her high blood-pressure medication because of the fear she felt at the time. “I do not feel comfortable knowing that my children and grandchildren have no protection in situations like this,” Geraldo said.

She goes on proving her ignorance about Mexicali by saying:

“In Mexicali it is essentially a medical tourism town. They keep it up because if they don't, nobody will want to go there. There really isn't anything great to do. No beaches, etc. Just medical stuff. So if they don't treat Americans well, they won't have a great deal of business and they depend on us.”

When in reality, “medical tourism” does not even make a dent on the region’s economy; its dependence on medical tourism is non-existent. Read this article recently printed in an business publication :

“..along the U.S.-Mexico border in Mexicali, Silicon Border enables a cost-effective and competitive manufacturing alternative in North America for emerging and global companies. Improving upon the world's leading technology parks, the park's 15 square miles of world-class infrastructure and education will support the stringent requirements of the semiconductor, flat panel display, telecom, optoelectronic and biotechnology industries.

Calexico (on the U.S. side) and Mexicali are linked through a shared history, population, and environment. The most striking differences are related to the size of the cities. In 2000, Calexico had approximately 27,000 residents and the urban area of Mexicali had 600,000 - making Mexicali about 20 times as large as Calexico. The difference in numbers explains Calexico’s greater dependence on Mexicali, than vice versa. Baja California’s state capital is a very prominent and busy city with a lot of business activity. It has many industrial areas and the valley has plenty of agricultural developments, amidst being located in the desert. Even though Mexicali is located in the middle of a desert, irrigation systems have enabled it to produce agricultural products, and Mexicali is a well known cotton-producing area. Also, assembly-line factories are established there, creating jobs for thousands of people. The tourism industry is also prominent, as San Felipe beaches are within the municipality, hosting national and international tourism year-long.”

There are three other types of sneaky patient coordinators lurking among the innocent all over the internet but those types (type 6,7 and 8) will have to wait for [/i] Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part Two. Don’t miss it!

Part Two has even more quotes of universal doctor bashing for both U.S. and Mexico doctors, everyone is fair game and no one is safe from the type 8 “coordinator”, it’s chuck-full of Dr. A****s worship.

TPC for Dummies Part Two includes a chapter on how “Patient Facilitator” companies have formed alliances and how they work with these types of “coordinators” to pimp certain doctors, offering superior service before they take your money and never answering your phone calls after they’ve taken your money.

Also included are actual Quotes of one of these “coordinators” giving advice to a fourteen year old on how to research her insurance policy for lap band surgery coverage! Yes advising a fourteen year old to CALL her insurance company ! Here’s an excerpt:

“..call your insurance company and see if it is covered. If they say it is not then ask them where you would find the exclusion in your insurance policy. Then research the policy and verify for yourself that it is not covered. If they claim it is covered then ask where you will find that in your policy and verify that too.”

Types of patient “coordinators” for Dummies, Part Two. Coming Soon!

Note: This publication is 100% trustworthy because all quotes ARE REAL, I did do MY RESEARCH.

Wow! Thanks for inventing a screen name just to post this post to make yourself look like a complete arse! Wasa is valuable to this site and her imput is appreciated. Yours however...I am sure you know where I think it should be placed. :guess

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Wow! Thanks for inventing a screen name just to post this post to make yourself look like a complete arse! Wasa is valuable to this site and her imput is appreciated. Yours however...I am sure you know where I think it should be placed. :guess

Thanks, Pippinje.

If Christine is being so honest and telling the whole entire story vs. bits of pieces of posts that make things look vastly different from what they are, why the fake ID? Her very first post ever was here.

We already caught these folks with a bunch of fake IDs. When we outed them on the boards and it was obvious who they were they stopped using all those IDs and came up with a slew of new ones.

This is one of many.

Just goes to show... if a doc is any good he doesn't need coordinators that tell bits and pieces vs. the entire story.

[DonHoll1 0]

Wow, I guess i better be careful what i say. I did love my doctor and the hospital and Mexico. LOL But i do not talk about it unless someone asks. Donna